Why I now believe that salvation can be lost.

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calibob

calibob

Sinner saved by grace
#3,761
May 29, 2018
8,268
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Anaheim, Cali.
#3,761
Noose said:
I'm sorry but you are mistaken.

Rom 6:16Do you not know that when you offer yourselves as obedient slaves, you are slaves to the one you obey, whether you are slaves to sin leading to death, or to obedience leading to righteousness?

Is righteousness the same thing as salvation?
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NO!
RIGHTEOUS - Definition from the KJV Dictionary
https://av1611.com/kjbp/kjv-dictionary/righteous.html
righteousness. RIGHTEOUSNESS, n. ri'chusness. 1. Purity of heart and rectitude of life; conformity of heart and life to the divine law. Righteousness, as used in Scripture and theology, in which it is chiefly used, is nearly equivalent to holiness, comprehending holy principles and affections of heart, and conformity of life to the divine law.
 
PennEd

PennEd

Senior Member
#3,762
Apr 22, 2013
13,614
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#3,762
Noose said:
Of course you can lose your salvation.

1 Cor 15:1Now, brothers, I want to remind you of the gospel I preached to you, which you received, and in which you stand firm. 2By this gospel you are saved, if you hold firmly to the word I preached to you. Otherwise, you have believed in vain.
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In order to grasp Paul's comment about believing in vain, you have to take the whole passage IN CONTEXT.

I think this gentleman does an excellent job explaining what "believing in vain" means here in context.

1 Corinthians 15:12-17
"Now if Christ is proclaimed as raised from the dead, how can some of you say that there is no resurrection of the dead? But if there is no resurrection of the dead, then not even Christ has been raised. And IF Christ has not been raised, then our preaching is in vain and your faith is in vain. We are even found to be misrepresenting God, because we testified about God that he raised Christ, whom he did not raise IF it is true that the dead are not raised. For IF the dead are not raised, not even Christ has been raised. And if Christ has not been raised, your faith is vain and you are still in your sins."

Only in one hypothetical case could someone believe in Jesus Christ and his believing be in vain. This would happen IF Jesus Christ hadn't been raised from the dead. In that case your most honest believing would really not be able to save you. Without the resurrection of the Lord Jesus there would be no salvation. Without His resurrection, our believing would be in vain, empty, futile. Look what else would have happened, if Christ had not risen:

So in other words, if you confess Jesus with your mouth, yet don't believe in your heart He was raised to life, you have believed in Him in vain.
 
I

IFOLLOWHIM

Guest
#3,763
#3,763
UnderGrace said:
If your salvation is not secure..... then works have to be part of the equation, there is no way around this.
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Everybody's salvation was secured when Jesus died, was buried ,rose again and ascended to the Father!

SALVATION IS THE BEGINNING of our service in love to God!

You are a silly woman who the bible speaks of being LED..........
 
I

IFOLLOWHIM

Guest
#3,764
#3,764
2Tim.3: 6/7 UnderGrads in case you're wondering my reference!
 
U

UnderGrace

Guest
#3,765
#3,765
IFOLLOWHIM said:
Everybody's salvation was secured when Jesus died, was buried ,rose again and ascended to the Father!

SALVATION IS THE BEGINNING of our service in love to God!

You are a silly woman who the bible speaks of being LED..........
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A change in doctrine then.:unsure:

I on the other hand have always been consistent.

And who is leading me.... care to elaborate?
 
I

IFOLLOWHIM

Guest
#3,767
#3,767
UnderGrace said:
A change in doctrine then.:unsure:

I on the other hand have always been consistent.

And who is leading me.... care to elaborate?
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Well is pretty obivios........mans doctrine!
Do all a favour and study for yourself and see where you stand!


BTW @UnderGrace ,I'm done with you!
You cannot teach me ............
 
N

Noose

Senior Member
#3,768
Apr 18, 2016
5,096
932
113
#3,768
PennEd said:
In order to grasp Paul's comment about believing in vain, you have to take the whole passage IN CONTEXT.

I think this gentleman does an excellent job explaining what "believing in vain" means here in context.

1 Corinthians 15:12-17
"Now if Christ is proclaimed as raised from the dead, how can some of you say that there is no resurrection of the dead? But if there is no resurrection of the dead, then not even Christ has been raised. And IF Christ has not been raised, then our preaching is in vain and your faith is in vain. We are even found to be misrepresenting God, because we testified about God that he raised Christ, whom he did not raise IF it is true that the dead are not raised. For IF the dead are not raised, not even Christ has been raised. And if Christ has not been raised, your faith is vain and you are still in your sins."

Only in one hypothetical case could someone believe in Jesus Christ and his believing be in vain. This would happen IF Jesus Christ hadn't been raised from the dead. In that case your most honest believing would really not be able to save you. Without the resurrection of the Lord Jesus there would be no salvation. Without His resurrection, our believing would be in vain, empty, futile. Look what else would have happened, if Christ had not risen:

So in other words, if you confess Jesus with your mouth, yet don't believe in your heart He was raised to life, you have believed in Him in vain.
Click to expand...
My understanding of that chapter is different.

Paul is not saying that the Corinthians were not taught about Christ's resurrection, he says that they should hold on to the gospel they were taught which means they were precisely taught everything about Christ's resurrection- but for some reason, they did not hold on to what they were already taught. That's why Paul says that if they don't hold fast then their belief is in vain.
 
Lightskin

Lightskin

Well-known member
#3,769
Aug 16, 2019
3,165
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#3,769
calibob said:
The law was different then. A woman had no right to legally divorce her husband or own real estate or vote either.
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All the more proof that love is not a work but rather fruit of the spirit.
 
Lightskin

Lightskin

Well-known member
#3,770
Aug 16, 2019
3,165
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#3,770
Noose said:
Correct. 1 Cor 13 doesn't in any way cancel the fact that, "by law a married woman is bound to her husband as long as he is alive"

It doesn't matter whether you love your wife or not, if you cheat on her, then BY LAW, you are an adulterer. It is the law that spells out what you are, not grace.

So, it is my observation that those that teach grace are on the fore in keeping the law also. Teach water but take wine.
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“IF you cheat on her” And those who don’t are not workers of the law but fruitful bearers of love, self respect and integrity. You’re forked tongue doublespeak works nonsense is exactly that ~~ nonsense.
 
Lightskin

Lightskin

Well-known member
#3,771
Aug 16, 2019
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#3,771
Noose said:
You know, there's such a thing as law that requires works and there's also law that requires faith.

We are not saved by the works of the law but the law that requires faith has its own works.
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Now you’re saying we’re saved by the law and not works. Wow you’re all over the place and you’re wrong with everything. Disturbing. Very disturbing indeed.
 
PennEd

PennEd

Senior Member
#3,772
Apr 22, 2013
13,614
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#3,772
Noose said:
My understanding of that chapter is different.

Paul is not saying that the Corinthians were not taught about Christ's resurrection, he says that they should hold on to the gospel they were taught which means they were precisely taught everything about Christ's resurrection- but for some reason, they did not hold on to what they were already taught. That's why Paul says that if they don't hold fast then their belief is in vain.
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Well, your understanding can be whatever you want it to be. It doesn't change what PAUL said it was as I previously showed from the text.
 
Lightskin

Lightskin

Well-known member
#3,773
Aug 16, 2019
3,165
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#3,773
IFOLLOWHIM said:
Everybody's salvation was secured when Jesus died, was buried ,rose again and ascended to the Father!

SALVATION IS THE BEGINNING of our service in love to God!

You are a silly woman who the bible speaks of being LED..........
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Houston, we have another problem.
 
PennEd

PennEd

Senior Member
#3,774
Apr 22, 2013
13,614
9,127
113
#3,774
IFOLLOWHIM said:
Everybody's salvation was secured when Jesus died, was buried ,rose again and ascended to the Father!

SALVATION IS THE BEGINNING of our service in love to God!

You are a silly woman who the bible speaks of being LED..........
Click to expand...
Fair warning. I have seen several people banned for saying others were LED BY......................
 
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