Is unconditional election biblical?

[ForestGreenCook]

another non-sequitur

you can say you don't know what that means. this is a safe place

I thank thee O Lord of heaven and earth that thou hast hidden these things from the wise and prudent and delivered them unto babes.

 

[7seasrekeyed]

no joke i dont know what a non-sequitor is but its not my mother language.

anyway. @preacher4truth and @Sackcloth-N-Ashes if you can show me where leighton flowers said those things i would agree with you guys he is wrong. but i have never heard him say that so cannot speak.

it's not going to happen

I am going to listen to the video and familiarize myself with his teaching but being familiar with the style of certain members here, I already know they are not being truthful

the worst thing about that, is that they do not seem to be bothered by lying

smh

Non Sequitur ("It does not follow"). This is the simple fallacy of stating, as a conclusion, something that does not strictly follow from the premises

basically it means answering something or addressing something, with a statement that has no basis in the first statement

like this:

person a: cats are pretty animals

person b: well trees have branches

makes no sense and it is an act of desperation when a person knows they are wrong but will not admit it for whatever reason

 

[7seasrekeyed]

I thank thee O Lord of heaven and earth that thou hast hidden these things from the wise and prudent and delivered them unto babes.

two wrongs don't make a right

 

[Whispered]

you are going to need more than one garbage truck for this post

you obviously do not understand anything but your TULIP regimen



as usual and I remember your style well, you pervert what is being said or simply make something up and then attribute it to people who are not of your beliefs

IMO, this is almost report worthy for the lies it contains and the obvious desire to slander

yup

I remember your style well.

Maybe rather than triplet it is sextuplets?

 

[preacher4truth]

you are going to need more than one garbage truck for this post

you obviously do not understand anything but your TULIP regimen



as usual and I remember your style well, you pervert what is being said or simply make something up and then attribute it to people who are not of your beliefs

IMO, this is almost report worthy for the lies it contains and the obvious desire to slander

yup

I remember your style well.

I've made no lies, nor have I perverted anyone's beliefs, nor have I slandered (libeled) any person.

You on the other hand? Yep, you've done just that.

Yeah, like I'm worried about your threat to report my post? Report away.

FTR your post above is filled with false accusations, I know TULIP well, and I know your errors.

You won't face your own beliefs to their logical error. Maybe you're scared of being wrong?

Perhaps if you read your Bible prayerfully a 20th of the amount of time you spend on here sharing your errors, read some other works to assist you from learned men, you'd come to the knowledge of the truth and the transformation would be apparent in your exchanges here.

You came back here as "rekeyed" being 7seas before (or something like that) but as I stated to you a long while back, you needed rather to change out the locks. You've attacked me under both monikers, name called, made false accusations. God is fully aware.

@Sackcloth-N-Ashes has stated he would provide any proof to what Flowers stated, I've seen and witnessed all of it. You can Google the rest to see what you can find, perhaps you'll find you can become his disciple, your beliefs are the same. But I'm beginning to gather you're not really interested in uncovering the truth here, but would much rather accuse of lying instead.

Lastly, nothing I've stated is a lie, yet we all know that providing you proof won't ever change your mind, you'll just bust out another ugly malice laden post. Now, I will probably never respond to you again because I choose to generally ignore everything you stated, but wanted to set the record straight concerning all the false things you've said about me above.

Blessings, I hope to see Paul's prayer answered in you as per Ephesians 1:15ff.

 

[Whispered]

Do you think this says 'don't bother preaching the gospel since we're Calvinist'

??

To the contrary. It says, unless one abides according to the TULIP formula , as one who is now in God's "Irresistible Grace", they cannot understand the preaching being preached.
Total Depravity precedes everything that comes after. The U, L, I, and P.

 

[Whispered]

another non-sequitur

you can say you don't know what that means. this is a safe place

Puppyyyyyy!

 

[preacher4truth]

Is it any wonder those who are members of the Reformed Theology congregation or are Calvinist align against a former Calvinist this way?

It must be said so as to expose the full facts, that Mr. Flowers remarks were in rebuttal to Irresistible Grace , the "I" in TULIP.
https://biblethumpingwingnut.com/2018/09/18/leighton-flowers-ordo-salutis-soteriology-101/
Mr.Flowers page, Soteriology 101, below for context. The Bible scripture and then the evidence he is refuting IG.

He was never a former Calvinist as some around him have attested.

 

[7seasrekeyed]

Is it any wonder those who are members of the Reformed Theology congregation or are Calvinist align against a former Calvinist this way?

It must be said so as to expose the full facts, that Mr. Flowers remarks were in rebuttal to Irresistible Grace , the "I" in TULIP.
https://biblethumpingwingnut.com/2018/09/18/leighton-flowers-ordo-salutis-soteriology-101/
Mr.Flowers page, Soteriology 101, below for context. The Bible scripture and then the evidence he is refuting IG.

well that's true

I am only just getting into the video as I am not familiar with Flowers

but p4t called him a heretic and then called the rest of us gainsayers who believe just like him which equates with calling people heretics which is agains the TOS I believe

in fact, sackcloth pointed that out...the faux pas

but of course this is what they would say

 

[Melach]

it's not going to happen

I am going to listen to the video and familiarize myself with his teaching but being familiar with the style of certain members here, I already know they are not being truthful

the worst thing about that, is that they do not seem to be bothered by lying

smh

Non Sequitur ("It does not follow"). This is the simple fallacy of stating, as a conclusion, something that does not strictly follow from the premises

basically it means answering something or addressing something, with a statement that has no basis in the first statement

like this:

person a: cats are pretty animals

person b: well trees have branches

makes no sense and it is an act of desperation when a person knows they are wrong but will not admit it for whatever reason

i agree i dont believe leighton would say that. i have heard like many hours of him preaching and talking and debating. he doesnt say things. i have seen his order of salvation video and he mentioned the Spirit of God there so its crazy if he later said spirit isnt needed at all, i find it hard to believe.

 

[7seasrekeyed]

I've made no lies, nor have I perverted anyone's beliefs, nor have I slandered (libeled) any person.

You on the other hand? Yep, you've done just that.

Yeah, like I'm worried about your threat to report my post? Report away.

FTR your post above is filled with false accusations, I know TULIP well, and I know your errors.

You won't face your own beliefs to their logical error. Maybe you're scared of being wrong?

Perhaps if you read your Bible prayerfully a 20th of the amount of time you spend on here sharing your errors, read some other works to assist you from learned men, you'd come to the knowledge of the truth and the transformation would be apparent in your exchanges here.

You came back here as "rekeyed" being 7seas before (or something like that) but as I stated to you a long while back, you needed rather to change out the locks. You've attacked me under both monikers, name called, made false accusations. God is fully aware.

@Sackcloth-N-Ashes has stated he would provide any proof to what Flowers stated, I've seen and witnessed all of it. You can Google the rest to see what you can find, perhaps you'll find you can become his disciple, your beliefs are the same. But I'm beginning to gather you're not really interested in uncovering the truth here, but would much rather accuse of lying instead.

Lastly, nothing I've stated is a lie, yet we all know that providing you proof won't ever change your mind, you'll just bust out another ugly malice laden post. Now, I will probably never respond to you again because I choose to generally ignore everything you stated, but wanted to set the record straight concerning all the false things you've said about me above.

Blessings, I hope to see Paul's prayer answered in you as per Ephesians 1:15ff.

I don't take your advice

but we do remember each other

everyone knows I left and came back so whatever

but calling people here heretics is against the TOS

and so is telling people they are not saved

But I'm beginning to gather you're not really interested in uncovering the truth here, but would much rather accuse of lying instead.

the usual, right?

accuse others of what you actually do yourself

 

[fredoheaven]

"the LORD shall provide a Lamb"

Genesis 22:8 King James Version (KJV)
8 And Abraham said, My son, God will provide himself a lamb for a burnt offering: so they went both of them together.

Good typology about Christ suffering, we know it because it has already been revealed to us. The testing of Abrahams's faith indeed shows the prophetic Messiah including the resurrection. However, Abraham knew nothing about the coming Messiah during his time and he is not looking forward to this thing. Did Abraham believe in the cross to be saved? The scriptures say Abraham believed God and it was counted unto him God's righteousness. What Jesus said about him as in John 8:56 Abraham rejoices to see Christ days may perhaps in reference to being in the glory with Lord either in paradise or in heaven, not the very moment his faith was tried. What Abraham in mind in the actual event is that the LORD will provide himself a lamb=ram but not the Lamb.

God bless

 

[John146]

Genesis 22:8 King James Version (KJV)
8 And Abraham said, My son, God will provide himself a lamb for a burnt offering: so they went both of them together.

Good typology about Christ suffering, we know it because it has already been revealed to us. The testing of Abrahams's faith indeed shows the prophetic Messiah including the resurrection. However, Abraham knew nothing about the coming Messiah during his time and he is not looking forward to this thing. Did Abraham believe in the cross to be saved? The scriptures say Abraham believed God and it was counted unto him God's righteousness. What Jesus said about him as in John 8:56 Abraham rejoices to see Christ days may perhaps in reference to being in the glory with Lord either in paradise or in heaven, not the very moment his faith was tried. What Abraham in mind in the actual event is that the LORD will provide himself a lamb=ram but not the Lamb.

God bless

New versions delete out “himself” failing to show that God Himself would be the Lamb.

 

[IFOLLOWHIM]

another non-sequitur

you can say you don't know what that means. this is a safe place

just throw the b....a....l....l.....s..🙈🙉🙊

 

[fredoheaven]

Abraham even prophetically names the place "Jehova jireh"

Genesis 22:14 New King James Version (NKJV)
14 And Abraham called the name of the place, [a]The-Lord-Will-Provide; as it is said to this day, “In the Mount of the Lord it shall be provided.”

Prophecy, things that pertain to the future which speaks of Calvary and in the future that God himself will provide a Lamb, however, the passage only stated father Abraham only called the name of that place, while that will be true for us now as it has already done, this so-called prophecy thing of Patriarch Abraham really knows Christ to be the Lamb which God will provide in due time. What Abraham knows and named it "Jehovah jireh"

 

[Magenta]

Where? Post the proof please.

It starts here. Though you really ought to read my posts from the beginning of the thread, something you seemed to have neglected to do before you repeatedly claimed I said something I had not. Despite being corrected multiple times, you clung to your lies.

 

[Whispered]

well that's true

I am only just getting into the video as I am not familiar with Flowers

but p4t called him a heretic and then called the rest of us gainsayers who believe just like him which equates with calling people heretics which is agains the TOS I believe

in fact, sackcloth pointed that out...the faux pas

but of course this is what they would say

Nor am was I that familiar until I sought out testimony of those who had left Calvinism.
Of course, anyone who would renounce Calvinism and TULIP by association, would be considered by committed Calvinists to be the definition of Heretic wouldn't they?

While TULIP itself is heresy against, in my view, the very character of an Omni-Benevolent Father God.
God makes people unable to be moral or find him , as predetermined by God. Then God draws those names He preselected to bring into his Irresistible Grace, meaning they have no choice but to be drawn in to that and therein also be made irresistibly to have faith.

The T, Total Depravity, of a person makes them totally unable to be moral and good and seek God and that is by God's doing, since that condition is said to be the result of Adam's fall in the garden. However, and this is something I don't think the dedicant to Calvin's way of warping scripture actually considers, TULIP would not exist if it did not follow that God predetermined the fall of man.
Otherwise, why would God write the names of those He elected to save first from their God given state of Total Depravity, so as to call them His elect? Save them from what? Unless God orchestrated the answer prior to choosing those names of His elect.

Think on the kind of God that would describe. And how counter it is to the actual scriptures even starting with Genesis. After God created all things He looked upon His creation and called it, good. The Book of Genesis 1:31
Good, relatively speaking and as pertains to, TULIP?

 

[fredoheaven]

Prophecy, things that pertain to the future which speaks of Calvary and in the future that God himself will provide a Lamb, however, the passage only stated father Abraham only called the name of that place, while that will be true for us now as it has already done, this so-called prophecy thing of Patriarch Abraham really knows Christ to be the Lamb which God will provide in due time. What Abraham knows and named it "Jehovah jireh"

And I should say Abraham "does not know Christ to be the Lamb which God will provide in due time". What Abraham knows only and named it Jehovah jireh.

 

[Whispered]

It starts here. Though you really ought to read my posts from the beginning of the thread, something you seemed to have neglected to do before you repeatedly claimed I said something I had not. Despite being corrected multiple times, you clung to your lies.

Thank you.
Actually, it started here:

Post#5 Blik said:


To add a new covenant, as we are told happened, does not mean that an old covenant is cancelled. Adding anything new is not saying that we are cancelling or destroying something that we already have. When something is added it means adding, not destroying.

Also, Christ told us He came to fulfill, to do all that the OT said He would do, not change or destroy anything.

You replied (the bold is my addition to point out the issue of "obsolete" that you introduced into the discussion but that I was charged with saying against the OT): But in fact the ministry Jesus has received is as superior to theirs as the covenant of which he is mediator
is superior to the old one, since the new covenant is established on better promises. Hebrews 8:6

By calling this covenant "new," he has made the first one obsolete;
and what is obsolete and outdated will soon disappear. Hebrews 8:13

You insist on calling it "added"? Let go of the old, dear. It is made obsolete.

 

[fredoheaven]

Okay, what righteousness did Abraham have at this time? It couldn’t be his own, as that was a used ‘cloth’(I’ll leave it there ). So, it has to be the imputed righteousness of the Christ. God told him that the nations would be blessed by his seed. Galatians 3:16 tells us who this Seed is.

The others, @posthuman, @PennEd, & @Grandpa all gave you the answer to your question.

No doubt Galatians 3:16 written by Paul in the New Testament revealing Christ is the very seed of Abraham yet it is clearly revealed only during Paul but not during the time of Abraham.

Galatians 3:16 King James Version (KJV)
16 Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.