Does Jesus' death on the cross pay for sin?

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tourist

Senior Member
Mar 13, 2014
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#21
The trouble with your thinking is that only his sheep hear his voice and understand it.
Jesus did say however, when addressing a small group of believers, that there were others that were not of this fold and that He must gather them in also.
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
59,965
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#23
Hebrews 9 (NIV)
Worship in the Earthly Tabernacle

9 Now the first covenant had regulations for worship and also an earthly sanctuary. 2 A tabernacle was set up. In its first room were the lampstand and the table with its consecrated bread; this was called the Holy Place. 3 Behind the second curtain was a room called the Most Holy Place, 4 which had the golden altar of incense and the gold-covered ark of the covenant. This ark contained the gold jar of manna, Aaron’s staff that had budded, and the stone tablets of the covenant. 5 Above the ark were the cherubim of the Glory, overshadowing the atonement cover. But we cannot discuss these things in detail now.


6 When everything had been arranged like this, the priests entered regularly into the outer room to carry on their ministry. 7 But only the high priest entered the inner room, and that only once a year, and never without blood, which he offered for himself and for the sins the people had committed in ignorance. 8 The Holy Spirit was showing by this that the way into the Most Holy Place had not yet been disclosed as long as the first tabernacle was still functioning. 9 This is an illustration for the present time, indicating that the gifts and sacrifices being offered were not able to clear the conscience of the worshiper. 10 They are only a matter of food and drink and various ceremonial washings—external regulations applying until the time of the new order.

The Blood of Christ
11 But when Christ came as high priest of the good things that are now already here, he went through the greater and more perfect tabernacle that is not made with human hands, that is to say, is not a part of this creation. 12 He did not enter by means of the blood of goats and calves; but he entered the Most Holy Place once for all by his own blood, thus obtaining eternal redemption. 13 The blood of goats and bulls and the ashes of a heifer sprinkled on those who are ceremonially unclean sanctify them so that they are outwardly clean. 14 How much more, then, will the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself unblemished to God, cleanse our consciences from acts that lead to death, so that we may serve the living God!


15 For this reason Christ is the mediator of a new covenant, that those who are called may receive the promised eternal inheritance—now that he has died as a ransom to set them free from the sins committed under the first covenant.

16 In the case of a will, it is necessary to prove the death of the one who made it, 17 because a will is in force only when somebody has died; it never takes effect while the one who made it is living. 18 This is why even the first covenant was not put into effect without blood. 19 When Moses had proclaimed every command of the law to all the people, he took the blood of calves, together with water, scarlet wool and branches of hyssop, and sprinkled the scroll and all the people. 20 He said, “This is the blood of the covenant, which God has commanded you to keep.” 21 In the same way, he sprinkled with the blood both the tabernacle and everything used in its ceremonies. 22 In fact, the law requires that nearly everything be cleansed with blood, and without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness.

23 It was necessary, then, for the copies of the heavenly things to be purified with these sacrifices, but the heavenly things themselves with better sacrifices than these. 24 For Christ did not enter a sanctuary made with human hands that was only a copy of the true one; he entered heaven itself, now to appear for us in God’s presence. 25 Nor did he enter heaven to offer himself again and again, the way the high priest enters the Most Holy Place every year with blood that is not his own. 26 Otherwise Christ would have had to suffer many times since the creation of the world. But he has appeared once for all at the culmination of the ages to do away with sin by the sacrifice of himself. 27 Just as people are destined to die once, and after that to face judgment, 28 so Christ was sacrificed once to take away the sins of many; and he will appear a second time, not to bear sin, but to bring salvation to those who are waiting for him.
 

ForestGreenCook

Well-known member
Jul 8, 2018
8,441
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#24
Yes. I think this is a pretty good summation.
Trampling on the Blood of Christ and the Spirit of Grace. They won’t be able to repay what Jesus has already paid.
But both of you are ignoring the fact that Jesus said that everyone that he died for he will raise up at the last day.
 

ForestGreenCook

Well-known member
Jul 8, 2018
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#25
John 1:29
The next day John saw Jesus coming toward him, and said, “Behold! The Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world!

John 1:12-13
But to all who did receive Him, to those who believed in His name, He gave the right to become children of God— 13children born not of blood, nor of the desire or will of man, but born of God.

John 3:18
“He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
You are quoting scriptures about "believers". Believing follows being born again. The natural man, until he is born of the Spirit will not and cannot believe in the things of the Spirit.
 

Shekinahglory

Active member
Aug 29, 2019
157
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#26
The Lord died for all men, generically speaking. It is as if the world was a cruise ship that hit an iceberg and sank. I can send a boat to rescue all people but if you don’t get in the boat you are going to drown but that does not negate my sending boats that none should perish.
 
Sep 6, 2014
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#27
The Lord died for all men, generically speaking. It is as if the world was a cruise ship that hit an iceberg and sank. I can send a boat to rescue all people but if you don’t get in the boat you are going to drown but that does not negate my sending boats that none should perish.
Well said.
 

John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
17,111
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#29
But both of you are ignoring the fact that Jesus said that everyone that he died for he will raise up at the last day.
Jesus paid the price for these false teachers who rejected His salvation.

2 Peter 2:1 "But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction."
 

Whispered

Well-known member
Aug 17, 2019
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www.christiancourier.com
#30
The death of Jesus on the cross pays for the sins of people who believe Jesus and trust that His death on the cross pays for their sins..

The penalty for sin must be paid if Perfection is to be maintained.. Otherwise God would be seen to be corrupt turning a blind eye to evil.. But God is perfect and that's why we need to be redeemed by the payment of the penalty of our sins..

Jesus by His Death on the cross has secured the price to pay for the penalty for all the sins of the people who believe Him and trust in His payment.. The reason why Jesus can potentially pay for the sins of all the people in the world is because He is a Perfect sacrifice.. He is the Lamb of God.. The lambs that where sacrificed on the first Passover where to be unblemished lambs and their blood was put on the doors of the homes of the Jews so that the Angel of death would Pass Over their homes and would not take the life of the first born in that household.. The Angel would only take the life of the first born of each household that where not ""Covered by the Blood of a Lamb""..

The first Passover was a symbolic shadow of the future.. Jesus was the Lamb of God who took away the sins of the world and He was executed on the day of Passover in i believe 30ad.. And anyone who believes and trusts in Jesus is covered by the blood of Jesus and thus on the day of judgement the Angels will not cast those people into the eternal Lake of fire.. They shall be deemed righteous on the day of judgement because of the Blood of the Lamb of God and worthy to enter into Gods perfect eternal existence..
Jesus' death on the cross took the sins of the world upon Himself there. Which is why we're told, no one comes to the Father, we are separated by our sins from God, but through me.

The cross in effect bridged the separation and reunited us with the Father.
2. "He Himself is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world." The Book of 1st John chapter 2
 

Whispered

Well-known member
Aug 17, 2019
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www.christiancourier.com
#31

ForestGreenCook

Well-known member
Jul 8, 2018
8,441
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#32
Jesus paid the price for these false teachers who rejected His salvation.

2 Peter 2:1 "But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction."
Yes he did. You will never understand the grace of God until you understand the depravity of man.
 

Shekinahglory

Active member
Aug 29, 2019
157
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#34
Maybe someone will throw them a life preserver?
If they’re dead won’t do any good. No secular examples can perfectly mimic spiritual truth. Plus the Lord has spoken through Scripture and He tells to go beyond what is revealed is of the evil one Because we start speaking for the Lord. The Lord tells us that He has done all that can be and need be done to save men. Like every thing we need accept that the God who came with the specific purpose of saving the lost has done everything man needs to be redeemed. If you have not met and grown to love Him in return I would like to pray for you. Please let me know. Thanks and God bless
 

PennEd

Senior Member
Apr 22, 2013
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#35
But both of you are ignoring the fact that Jesus said that everyone that he died for he will raise up at the last day.
This quite the misquote from Jesus:

John 6:40 New King James Version (NKJV)
40 And this is the will of Him who sent Me, that everyone who sees the Son and believes in Him may have everlasting life; and I will raise him up at the last day.”
 

tourist

Senior Member
Mar 13, 2014
42,578
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#36
If they’re dead won’t do any good. No secular examples can perfectly mimic spiritual truth. Plus the Lord has spoken through Scripture and He tells to go beyond what is revealed is of the evil one Because we start speaking for the Lord. The Lord tells us that He has done all that can be and need be done to save men. Like every thing we need accept that the God who came with the specific purpose of saving the lost has done everything man needs to be redeemed. If you have not met and grown to love Him in return I would like to pray for you. Please let me know. Thanks and God bless
Thank you but me and God are all set in that regard.
 

ComeLordJesus

Senior Member
Dec 26, 2017
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#38
Only through the shedding of blood are we forgiven.

Ep. 1:6 To the praise of the glory of His grace, wherein He hath made us accepted in the beloved.

(v.7) In whom we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of His grace;
 

ForestGreenCook

Well-known member
Jul 8, 2018
8,441
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#39
This quite the misquote from Jesus:

John 6:40 New King James Version (NKJV)
40 And this is the will of Him who sent Me, that everyone who sees the Son and believes in Him may have everlasting life; and I will raise him up at the last day.”
I assumed that you knew that I was using my own words. The exact KJV quote; John 6:7 - All that the Father giveth me shall come to me, and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out. 38 - For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me, 39 - And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but raise it up at the last day. 40 - And this is the will of him that sent me, that everyone that seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life; and I will raise him up at the last day. Question; Who is he going to raise up at the last day? Answer; All that the Father gave him. Question; Was this all mankind? Answer; No. Question; Who did God say may have eternal life? Answer; Everyone that seeth the Son, and believeth on him. Question; Was that all mankind? Answer; No. The conclusion is that he did not die for all mankind.
 

Adstar

Senior Member
Jul 24, 2016
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#40
Yes, God does have foreknowledge and foreknew that no one would knock.
If that where the case then Jesus would never advise / encourage people to knock.. They would all just be zombies pre- programed to either knock or not knock.. No need for Jesus to give instructions..

Matthew 7: KJV
7 "¶ Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you: {8} For every one that asketh receiveth; and he that seeketh findeth; and to him that knocketh it shall be opened."


John 10 does not mention anything about knocking. The sheepfold is God's elect on the earth. God is the porter. The door is the entrance to his elect (the sheep). Jesus is the shepherd of the sheep. God opens the door so that Jesus can enter into the sheepfold of his elect. When Jesus enters in the sheep hear his voice and he becomes the door and gives them eternal life. The only reference to "knock" is found in Matt, Luke and Rev, and the ones knocking are already his sheep.
In Matthew 7 He is not talking to the saved.. This was before His execution, before the Atonement, before the Day of penticost.. We become His sheep when we are saved..