Does Jesus' death on the cross pay for sin?

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Adstar

Senior Member
#41
Jul 24, 2016
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#41
Whispered said:
Jesus' death on the cross took the sins of the world upon Himself there. Which is why we're told, no one comes to the Father, we are separated by our sins from God, but through me.

The cross in effect bridged the separation and reunited us with the Father.
2. "He Himself is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world." The Book of 1st John chapter 2
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Well there is nothing in this reply that i disagree with.. Wondering how you interpret the words ""But also for the sins of the whole world""? Are you a universalist?
 
Whispered

Whispered

Well-known member
#42
Aug 17, 2019
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www.christiancourier.com
#42
Adstar said:
Well there is nothing in this reply that i disagree with.. Wondering how you interpret the words ""But also for the sins of the whole world""? Are you a universalist?
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No, I'm not. Though I do understand how Universalist's see things and can't condemn them for that.
However, I think first Timothy also rightly tells us that Jesus died for more people than what the elitism of reformed doctrines claim.
The Book of 1st Timothy chapter 4 "9 The saying is (T)trustworthy and deserving of full acceptance. 10 For to this end we toil and strive,[b] because we have our hope set on the living God, (U)who is the Savior of all people, especially of those who believe. "

I also think it can be a mistake if we imagine God is only what we read in scripture.
 
A

Adstar

Senior Member
#43
Jul 24, 2016
7,581
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#43
Whispered said:
No, I'm not. Though I do understand how Universalist's see things and can't condemn them for that.
However, I think first Timothy also rightly tells us that Jesus died for more people than what the elitism of reformed doctrines claim.
The Book of 1st Timothy chapter 4 "9 The saying is (T)trustworthy and deserving of full acceptance. 10 For to this end we toil and strive,[b] because we have our hope set on the living God, (U)who is the Savior of all people, especially of those who believe. "

I also think it can be a mistake if we imagine God is only what we read in scripture.
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Well i think it is very dangerous for people to start imagining things about God outside of what God has revealed in scripture.. But it is true God is more then scripture and God has revealed to us what we Need to Know in scripture..

Apart from that i do hope for the numbers to be saved to be the biggest number possible.. Gods will shall be done on that matter.
 
PS

PS

Senior Member
#44
Jan 11, 2013
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#44
As Gleason Archer explains it like this:

God had to become one of us in order to redeem us from the guilt and penalty of our sin. And the Word became flesh, and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth’ ‘(John 1:14).

God as God could not forgive us for our sins unless our sins were fully paid for; otherwise He would have been a condoner and protector of the violation of His own holy law. It was only as a man that God in Christ could furnish satisfaction sufficient to atone for the sins of mankind; for only a man, a true human being, could properly represent the human race.

But at the same time our Redeemer had to be God, for only God could furnish a sacrifice of infinite value, to compensate for the penalty of eternal hell that our sin demands, according to the righteous claims of divine justice. Only God could have devised a way of salvation that made it possible for Him to remain Just and at the same time become the Justifier of the ungodly and instead of sending them to the everlasting perdition they deserved it was the perfect Man who was also infinite God that furnished an effectual sacrifice for all believers of every age.
 
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ForestGreenCook

Well-known member
#45
Jul 8, 2018
8,441
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#45
tourist said:
Jesus did say however, when addressing a small group of believers, that there were others that were not of this fold and that He must gather them in also.
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The others was the Gentiles and they are also sheep, just not od that fold.
 
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ForestGreenCook

Well-known member
#46
Jul 8, 2018
8,441
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#46
Adstar said:
If that where the case then Jesus would never advise / encourage people to knock.. They would all just be zombies pre- programed to either knock or not knock.. No need for Jesus to give instructions..

Matthew 7: KJV
7 "¶ Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you: {8} For every one that asketh receiveth; and he that seeketh findeth; and to him that knocketh it shall be opened."




In Matthew 7 He is not talking to the saved.. This was before His execution, before the Atonement, before the Day of penticost.. We become His sheep when we are saved..
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Moses and all the other believers were born with the indwelling of the Holy Spirit just as those in the new testament. Isaiah 63:11 - Then he remembered the days of old, Moses, and his people, saying, Where is he that brought them up out of the sea with the shepherd of the flock? Where is he that put his Spirit within him?
 
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ForestGreenCook

Well-known member
#47
Jul 8, 2018
8,441
1,213
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#47
Adstar said:
Well i think it is very dangerous for people to start imagining things about God outside of what God has revealed in scripture.. But it is true God is more then scripture and God has revealed to us what we Need to Know in scripture..

Apart from that i do hope for the numbers to be saved to be the biggest number possible.. Gods will shall be done on that matter.
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The strait gate and narrow way that leadeth to life and few there be that find it (Matt 7:14) is misinterpreted my most people leading them to believe that there will only be a few in heaven. "Life" in this verse is not referring to eternal life, but the good and abundant life that we can have by following God's commandments. I believe the scriptures to teach that those that will live in heaven are numbered as the grains of sand in the seashore and the stars in the heavens. They can not be numbered.
 
PS

PS

Senior Member
#49
Jan 11, 2013
5,399
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#49
Regarding post 44.

This is why it is important to believe in the Trinity, for if Jesus was not the visible image of Almighty God (Col 1:15), our sins could never have been forgiven and we would never have been redeemed. When we read it is necessary to believe in Jesus for salvation, it means we need to believe who he really was, we need to believe he was God made visible in the form of man, for salvation is only found in Him. (Act 4:12)
 
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