Was Jesus planning to return within a generation?
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I'm not sure where and how exactly you make the distinction between the two, and isn't He reigning after the judgement of the covenant breakers? When He ends the Aion, like was ended in real life recorded history? The books in the bible where finished before the judgement came, right before, right when Jesus said it would. I do want to clarify one thing about what I believe. I do believe the creation is being renewed right now and one the loaf is fully leavened, once the mustard seed is a full grown tree with next in it's branched and beast in it's shade, once all is under Him, then Jesus presents the perfect creation to the Fathers and He dwells with us forever.
If Timothy preached the gosel as the seed by which men are born again as a labor of his love . He is also considered a Mom, as the mother of us all.
Brings new meaning to mothers day.
I did not say Paul's message as all that I offered was to Galatians . The fact that he labored as in birth pains until Christ did the work of forming a chaste virgin bride using Timothy, it represent the whole church as the mother of us all .
Beautiful picture as a parable set aside of the mother of us all as his chaste virgin bride in Revelation 12.
Revelation 12 King James Version (KJV) And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars: And she being with child cried, travailing in birth, and pained to be delivered.
The new heavenly Jerusalem is being prepared as His eternal chaste virgin bride she will come down on the last day
But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all. Galatians 4;26
I admit your error, Mom. But what the eyes see still profits for nothing .
I think we need to put on the 20/20, 1 Corinthians 4:8 prescription.
Was Timothy signified as a chaste virgin bride espoused to our husband, Christ?
What does the bride of Christ, the church look like? Since we as sons of God we are not what we will be? Peter, Mary or perhaps shift changers ?
We walk by faith. . . the unseen eternal.
1 John 3:1Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God: therefore the world knoweth us not, because it knew him not.Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.
I agree 100%, that's why I pointed yours out. But agreed. I also would like to point out you didn't address anything I said at all. 
So are we going to have a conversation about the topic? Or was that it? You come and talk to people as if you know "YOU" need to teach them, (that's just how you came across to me in the very specific example I provided last comment), then go on to never even address anything I said, and just insinuate that I'm prideful. Wow, projection much? Please share with me exactly what I said that was dripping with such pride in your opinion.
If by some chance you happen to be talking about yourself, because you were not specific at all, then I apologize for misunderstanding, but doubt that's the case with the "cast it away" comment, and from the very little I've interacted with you so far you don't at all come across as the type that admits they did wrong. Ever. Again I don't know you at all, and have very little to go on, but that's the way you come across to me, and if politely pointing out a flaw in the way you were communicating with me is prideful to you, after YOU were the one actually being offensive, then all I can do is
So are we going to have a conversation about the topic? Or was that it? You come and talk to people as if you know "YOU" need to teach them, (that's just how you came across to me in the very specific example I provided last comment), then go on to never even address anything I said, and just insinuate that I'm prideful. Wow, projection much? Please share with me exactly what I said that was dripping with such pride in your opinion.If by some chance you happen to be talking about yourself, because you were not specific at all, then I apologize for misunderstanding, but doubt that's the case with the "cast it away" comment, and from the very little I've interacted with you so far you don't at all come across as the type that admits they did wrong. Ever. Again I don't know you at all, and have very little to go on, but that's the way you come across to me, and if politely pointing out a flaw in the way you were communicating with me is prideful to you, after YOU were the one actually being offensive, then all I can do is
I agree 100%, that's why I pointed yours out. But agreed. I also would like to point out you didn't address anything I said at all. So are we going to have a conversation about the topic? Or was that it? You come and talk to people as if you know "YOU" need to teach them, (that's just how you came across to me in the very specific example I provided last comment), then go on to never even address anything I said, and just insinuate that I'm prideful. Wow, projection much? Please share with me exactly what I said that was dripping with such pride in your opinion.
If by some chance you happen to be talking about yourself, because you were not specific at all, then I apologize for misunderstanding, but doubt that's the case with the "cast it away" comment, and from the very little I've interacted with you so far you don't at all come across as the type that admits they did wrong. Ever. Again I don't know you at all, and have very little to go on, but that's the way you come across to me, and if politely pointing out a flaw in the way you were communicating with me is prideful to you, after YOU were the one actually being offensive, then all I can do is
So are we going to have a conversation about the topic? Or was that it? You come and talk to people as if you know "YOU" need to teach them, (that's just how you came across to me in the very specific example I provided last comment), then go on to never even address anything I said, and just insinuate that I'm prideful. Wow, projection much? Please share with me exactly what I said that was dripping with such pride in your opinion.If by some chance you happen to be talking about yourself, because you were not specific at all, then I apologize for misunderstanding, but doubt that's the case with the "cast it away" comment, and from the very little I've interacted with you so far you don't at all come across as the type that admits they did wrong. Ever. Again I don't know you at all, and have very little to go on, but that's the way you come across to me, and if politely pointing out a flaw in the way you were communicating with me is prideful to you, after YOU were the one actually being offensive, then all I can do is
And yes if i believe i have been granted the answer i share it with others.. Otherwise i would not bother posting.. That's the normal state of affairs on forums.. Coming out and accusing others of being prideful simply because they have given an answer they believe is true is ,,, well ,,, pathetic.. We come to forums to hear what others believe.. And to give what we believe.. It is very frustrating that i have to waste my time writing a paragraph stating the obvious..
I come to a forum to teach and to get schooled by others.. Some days i am the teacher other days i am the student.. I enjoy it when i am getting schooled because i grow in wisdom and become a better witness to the Gospel..
I have not been offensive to you.. But if you do not want to interact with me again there is a feature on the forum called the Ignore feature.. You can click on my name right now and opt to put me on ignore..
To the author of this post: You are correct, Jesus did indeed return to that very generation, or rather His Presence did. If one looks at Young's Literal Translation of Mat 24 we see that it was His presence that was to return to end their age.
3 And when he is sitting on the mount of the Olives, the disciples came near to him by himself, saying, `Tell us, when shall these be? and what [is] the sign of thy presence, and of the full end of the age?'
Thus the signs given were signs leading up to the end of the Mosaic (Law) Age. The entire passage of Mat 24 has the temple destruction in view. There is no mention of anything not related to its demise mentioned. Nothing suggests a 2,000 year gap of events or anything relative to our times.
3 And when he is sitting on the mount of the Olives, the disciples came near to him by himself, saying, `Tell us, when shall these be? and what [is] the sign of thy presence, and of the full end of the age?'
Thus the signs given were signs leading up to the end of the Mosaic (Law) Age. The entire passage of Mat 24 has the temple destruction in view. There is no mention of anything not related to its demise mentioned. Nothing suggests a 2,000 year gap of events or anything relative to our times.
Great question, I'm glad you asked.
Wow, lot's of varied replies. Let me offer my views as to what is going on here. (This is largely taken from a reply I posted some months back in some other discussion, but the guts of it is still relevant to the discussion).
And as a warning for those not having the stomach to bear it, this is a very end-Acts dispensational perspective (but hey, this is one of the many good reasons for why I am an end-Acts dispensationalist), ..so for you, I will give the one-line answer, then you can run!
One-liner: The original Greek is conditional. The Greek word 'an', which is mostly not translated, makes it a 'maybe' - so no problem.
(You can see it included in the YLT version)
Okay, the longer version..
I believe Jesus meant what one would understand it to be at face value. No need to 'spiritualise' it or twist it around to somehow make it fit with our ideas.
'Soon' did mean soon, but it doesn't anymore.
All the NT writers, and Jesus himself in the gospels, state that his return is not very far off. This was a very real and very possible expectation, but it was dependent on the Jews and the Jewish leadership accepting Jesus as THEIR messiah.
Matthew
3.2 (John the Baptist) 'repent for the kingdom of heaven is near'
4.17 '..Jesus began to teach 'repent for the kingdom of heaven is near''
16.28 - '..some standing here which shall not taste death till they (*may) see the son of man coming in his kingdom'.
24.34 - '..this generation shall not pass, till all these things (*may) be fulfilled'.
*Note: those last two statements contain the conditional 'an' in the Greek (Strong's G302), which is mostly not translated into the English. It basically means, 'definitely maybe'. Some translations do include it, eg. YLT.
(I do note the 'an' is in Matthew and Luke, but is omitted in Mark)
Acts:
2.17 'in THE LAST DAYS I will pour out my spirit..' (Peter quotes Joel here to explain the miracles being seen at Pentecost - ie. implying they were then in 'the last days')
But this next one is the kicker..
3:19 "REPENT then and turn to God,..
- SO THAT your sins may be wiped out,..
- THAT times of refreshing may come from the Lord,..
- AND THAT HE MAY SEND THE CHRIST who has been appointed for you (Israel) - even Jesus.
He must remain in heaven until the time comes for God to restore everything, as HE PROMISED LONG AGO through his holy prophets".
Note: This is why, in Acts 1, Jesus does not give a direct answer to the disciples' question, 'Will you at this time restore the kingdom to Israel?' - it was conditional.
If you missed it, Peter is saying here that Jesus would return in their lifetime, IF they repent!
Moving on, all these Acts-period epistles plainly show Christ's imminent return was expected:
Romans:
13.11-12 "..the hour has come.. the night is nearly over, the day is almost here".
1 Corinthians:
7.29 "What I mean, brothers, is that the time is short. From now on those who have wives should live as if they had none.."
(ie. don't have children, it won't be easy, "..because of the present crisis" (v26). Compare with Matt 24.19 'how dreadful it will be in those days for pregnant women and nursing mothers').
10.11 "..for us, on whom the fulfilment of the ages has come".
15.51-52 'we will not all sleep.. and we will be changed'
1 Thessalonians:
4.15 'we who are still alive and are left to the coming of the lord'
4.17 'we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together..'
Hebrews:
1.2 "..but in these last days"
8.13 'the old covenant will soon disappear'
(..also suggesting the new covenant had not yet come in).
9.36 'now he has appeared once for all, at the end of the ages'
10.37 'for in just a little while, he who is coming will come and will not delay'
James:
(to 'the rich' for being selfish)
5.3 "..you have hoarded wealth in the last days"
5.5 "..you have fattened yourselves in the day of slaughter".
(to the 'brothers and sisters')
5.8 "..be patient and stand firm, for the Lord's coming is near".
5.9 "..the judge is standing at the door"
1 Peter:
1.20 - '..He (Jesus) was revealed in these last times for you..'
4.7 'the end of all things is near
2 Peter:
3.3-4 'in the last days scoffers will say 'where is this coming he promised''
1 John:
2.18 "..it is the last hour, as you have heard the Antichrist is coming, and even now many antichrists have come, this is how we know it is the last hour"
Jude:
17,18 'in the last times'
Revelation:
1.1 "..what must soon take place".
1.3 "..because the time is near".
3.11 "I am coming soon"
22.7 "I am coming soon"
22.12 "I am coming soon"
22.20 "yes, I am coming soon"
These are all Acts-period epistles (yes, even Revelation), and very much Jewish in focus.
So what happened?
The Jewish leadership rejected Jesus in the gospel period, and they were forgiven ('they know not what they do'). So the Acts period was the answer to that prayer - it was (Israel's) second chance to receive him. During that time many believed, but the leadership still did not. From Jerusalem, to Antioch, and finally to Rome, they all rejected the message.
Acts is not a book about the beginning of the Church, it is a book about the failure of Israel (as a nation) to accept Jesus as their messiah. Even to the last chapter Paul claims (28:20) "It is because of the hope of Israel that I am bound with this chain".
And so, after this final rejection by the leaders in Rome, Israel is put aside (for the time being), with his closing statement:
Acts 28:25-28:
"..And when they AGREED NOT among themselves, they departed, after that Paul had spoken one word, 'well spake the Holy Ghost by Isaiah the prophet unto our fathers, saying, Go unto this people, and say, Hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and not perceive: for the heart of this people is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes have they closed; lest they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them. BE IT KNOWN THEREFORE unto you, THAT THE SALVATION OF GOD IS SENT UNTO THE GENTILES, and that they will hear it'".
(ie. it is taken FROM Israel, they have LOST their position)
The first time this was stated (Isaiah 6) the context was Israel losing their kingdom and being sent into exile - same result here. The first time, the temple was destroyed and the people were removed from the land by the Babylonians. The last time, the temple was destroyed and the people were driven from the land by the Romans. It is a hugely significant moment!
..and so, he didn't return at that time.
On with the story..
So, in is ushered a new dispensation, where Jews and Gentiles are one.
No longer is the hope an earthly kingdom in Jerusalem, with Israel as the bride, and Christ, the groom, on the throne of David to rule for a millenium.
The hope is now the church which is his body, and Christ the head, enjoying every spiritual blessing, in the heavenly places.
Don't mix the two up!
Other differences..
Before end-Acts
"none other things than what is written in the law and the prophets" (Acts 26:22)
"since the foundation of the world"
unsearchable
After Acts:
"unsearchable" (Eph 3:8) "hid in God" (Eph 3:9) - ie. NOT in the OT
"chosen before the foundation of the world" (Eph 1:4)
And finally,
At some unknown point in time, however, this current period (dispensation) will come to a close, and the earthly hope of Israel will resume. The prophetic clock of Daniel, the seventy sevens, is paused but will resume, and it will all come to a head in a short period. Some say that clock has only seven years to run (the last 7yrs of the tribulation), others 14yrs or so. Either way, it is not long.
Some last points..
Christ will return AFTER the tribulation
- it cannot be before that, his return is what ENDS the tribulation.
The tribulation begins 3.5yrs into the peace deal with the anti-christ.
- there is no peace deal yet, so that clock hasn't started yet.
There needs to be a temple.
- the tribulation begins with the anti-christ profaning the temple and putting an end to the 'daily sacrifice', so there needs to be a temple - but clearly there is none currently. Some think the temple needs to exist before the 7yrs agreement starts, but I think it more likely the temple will only be allowed to be built as part of the 7yr agreement, not before. It will probably take a year or three to finish that, and at some point something (possibly the temple existing, or perhaps the daily sacrifices taking place) will tick off the anti-christ and his followers (muslims?) and then will be a total melt-down. The bible says this time will be cut short, but I suspect it could still be a full 3.5yrs of troubles before Christ returns to put a stop to it.
..urrgh, enough.
thanks for listening.
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Ugh its confusing.
Lots of people say theres a gap for the gentiles to all come to Christ (every nation except Israel) before the end of time. So it would seem theres a fair way to go.
Others will say Jesus has come and gone (for Israel) that his judgement was at 70-AD with the destruction of the temple. But then there has ben subsequent judgemnts of Israel in every single century that the generation of Israel has been alive on earth.... the most recent of course being the Holocaust.
Not sure when the millenium starts because if it really started from 70AD it would have ended at 1070AD! Being a thousand years. But was Jesus ruling from Jerusalem at all those years? Hardly.
So I think it must be still future. That is if we take the thousand years to be literal.
Lots of people say theres a gap for the gentiles to all come to Christ (every nation except Israel) before the end of time. So it would seem theres a fair way to go.
Others will say Jesus has come and gone (for Israel) that his judgement was at 70-AD with the destruction of the temple. But then there has ben subsequent judgemnts of Israel in every single century that the generation of Israel has been alive on earth.... the most recent of course being the Holocaust.
Not sure when the millenium starts because if it really started from 70AD it would have ended at 1070AD! Being a thousand years. But was Jesus ruling from Jerusalem at all those years? Hardly.
So I think it must be still future. That is if we take the thousand years to be literal.
Honest answer is I do not know.
I believe God knows the future, but I also believe the offer of the Kingdom to the people of Israel was genuine, so had they accepted, they would of gotten their Kingdom with the King present. God knowing this would not occur, planned it all along to go as we have seen it happen.
I believe God knows the future, but I also believe the offer of the Kingdom to the people of Israel was genuine, so had they accepted, they would of gotten their Kingdom with the King present. God knowing this would not occur, planned it all along to go as we have seen it happen.