Not By Works

[Melach]

Yes directed at which ever generation is ALIVE, but no one is 'saved bodily'.

people are saved bodily. all people but especially those alive at the rapture

body is saved when we get resurrection bodies. some people get them in a twinkling of an eye, those who are alive when Jesus comes but others get it after sleeping in the dust for some time. thats why it says dead in Christ shall rise first because they need a 6ft head start from us.

 

[mailmandan]

What about those who start firmly rooted and then loose it midway?

2 Pet 2:20If indeed they have escaped the corruption of the world through the knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ,e only to be entangled and overcome by it again, their final condition is worse than it was at first. 21It would have been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness than to have known it and then to turn away from the holy commandment passed on to them.

See post #83,073 - https://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/not-by-works.146296/page-4154#post-3839046

 

[UnderGrace]

people are saved bodily. all people but especially those alive at the rapture

body is saved when we get resurrection bodies. some people get them in a twinkling of an eye, those who are alive when Jesus comes but others get it after sleeping in the dust for some time. thats why it says dead in Christ shall rise first because they need a 6ft head start from us.

Yes, and sometimes it means very simply they shall survive.

 

[Melach]

Yes, and sometimes it means very simply they shall survive.

yes this is true. like noah flood:

1Pe 3:20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.

thats not talking about noah going to heaven nothing about that there. its talking about like you said they survive the flood. of course we know from hebrews that noah went to heaven but in the o.t there is nothing said of it or here in peter's letter.

 

[Noose]

people are saved bodily. all people but especially those alive at the rapture

body is saved when we get resurrection bodies. some people get them in a twinkling of an eye, those who are alive when Jesus comes but others get it after sleeping in the dust for some time. thats why it says dead in Christ shall rise first because they need a 6ft head start from us.

This is something else. There's no rapture.

 

[UnderGrace]

Sorry you are unable to understand the Greek definition. But thanks for watching!

Here let me break down for you and you can inform your Greek speaking friends too, since etymology and studying the word in other writings also give understanding of the meaning of a word.

Repentance means to feel remorse or regret for your sins; it's Latin root literally means "pain; suffering in view of being liable to punishment".

In the Old Latin and Latin Vulgate metanoia was translated as paenitentia which came to mean penance or acts of penance that had to be done if one hoped to obtain grace, therein lies the problem.

The etymology of the word is clear and what you teach is not true.

meta=after; noeo=to think. Put the two together and the effect of meta was “after the fact” or “afterwards.”

The word means "after-mind" and signifies a change of mind: thinking one way, but then afterwards thinking another. It is the opposite of pronoia (pro-nous) which means before-mind: the mind or thinking you have before.

The word metanoia in no way means turning from sin, unlike the word 'repentance" the word metanoia relies heavily on context.

 

[UnderGrace]

fyi... we have another one

HellIsForHeretics

 

[gb9]

fyi... we have another one

HellIsForHeretics

or is the same one, back again???

 

[UnderGrace]

or is the same one, back again???

Definitely the same one back using a VPN and so can continually harass us.

 

[Melach]

This is something else. There's no rapture.

there is:

1Th 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
1Th 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

1Co 15:51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
1Co 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

rapture is translation of living believers at time of Jesus' coming to glorified bodies. you dont like the word rapture ok lets use caught up or transformed whatever. i just cal it rapture because thats how people call it

 

[blue_ladybug]

Definitely the same one back using a VPN and so can continually harass us.

He/she/ it can only "harass" you if you respond to them.. I keep telling you people, don't feed the trolls. They're like Gremlins, they multiply when fed!! LOL

 

[UnderGrace]

We are called by the Father to Christ. We then repent which is just turning from our way to the way of the caller. If we choose to, we then take our first step of pisteuo or Faith, faithing towards God.

What that first step is, is a genuine, personal, surrendering of our lives to Him," Christ ". Believing, that He will accept the surrendered life, we make decisions throughout our day, that show God we really have given our life and will to Him. That it's not ours anymore but His now!

This exact surrender, if we continue to choose to do so, is done in exactly the same way every day. Each day our surrendered life is being perfected by Him. it's not about a perfect surrendered life, but must be a genuine one. A half measure will avail nothing. Expecting something in return, which is kind of natural for us, will slowly fall away. We will begin to have a real personal relationship with Christ. He will secretly be perfecting our surrendered life to Him, and He will respond in secret to us.
Eventually, if the surrendered life is tested and accepted by God, He will seal in the Spirit of Christ making Christ, His word, and the promises in His word ours to compare to. His word becomes like a reflection of others who have surrendered their lives before us. We will see the reflection of our surrendered life in His world

Wrong

You cannot earn salvation by any act, simple as that.

 

[UnderGrace]

He/she/ it can only "harass" you if you respond to them.. I keep telling you people, don't feed the trolls. They're like Gremlins, they multiply when fed!! LOL

View attachment 205423

Agree, I meant harass the thread by spamming the thread, they seem to do that even if we ignore.

 

[UnderGrace]

He/she/ it can only "harass" you if you respond to them.. I keep telling you people, don't feed the trolls. They're like Gremlins, they multiply when fed!! LOL

View attachment 205423

You do find the funniest emoji's........ that one is a perfect response to some of the false doctrine people keep pushing on this thread

 

[blue_ladybug]

You do find the funniest emoji's........ that one is a perfect response to some of the false doctrine people keep pushing on this thread

I have several folders, and several hundreds of emojis. That one came from my animated blobs folder.. lol.. I literally have an emoji for ANY situation you can think of..

 

[UnderGrace]

Context?! the whole bible is about man's salvation (spiritual). The body has to pass away.

Truth is very hard to see if you follow false doctrine.
You really need to re-examine your basic beliefs, they are far outside of the scripture.

 

[UnderGrace]

I have several folders, and several hundreds of emojis. That one came from my animated blobs folder.. lol.. I literally have an emoji for ANY situation you can think of..

View attachment 205424

Very cool and they are most entertaining!

 

[UnderGrace]

Thanks but your conclusion has nothing to do with:

Rom 2:5But because of your hard and unrepentant heart, you are storing up wrath against yourself for the day of wrath, when God’s righteous judgment will be revealed. 6God “will repay each one according to his deeds.” 7To those who by perseverance in doing good seek glory, honor, and immortality, He will give eternal life.

This is cannot be understood out of context for sure.
I do not take it as "descriptive of believers" since that causes to many other problems unless one follows a a "perseverance" of the saints doctrine, which is a problem in and of itself.

The entire chapter would need to be examined to really understand the point Paul is making here.

You definitely cannot use this verse to promote that "works save" since that contradicts Paul's other teaching.

 

[Noose]

This is cannot be understood out of context for sure.
I do not take it as "descriptive of believers" since that causes to many other problems unless one follows a a "perseverance" of the saints doctrine, which is a problem in and of itself.

The entire chapter would need to be examined to really understand the point Paul is making here.

You definitely cannot use this verse to promote that "works save" since that contradicts Paul's other teaching.

You don't have to look at everything with an OSAS lenses. Paul doesn't contradict and this chapter doesn't teach works salvation but abiding in Christ. We do not work to attain justification but everyone starts from the point of justification. Only those that abide in Christ till the end will be victorious and this is what it means persevering to the end.

 

[fredoheaven]

The quote in red above... where is that in the Scripture? I have 27 translations of the Word, including the New Testament Greek. And I KNOW it's not Bible. Perhaps an editor's footnote? If it's not the Word, then it's not the Word, but a false definition from a mortal man.
I reject it, as it contradicts the canon of Scripture.

What I gave is in regards to salvation. We need to change a mind that salvation is not from us, it's from God. Repentance really means a "change of mind' which the action is to the 'changing of mind'. The result is either a change of direction. The biblical definition may be found here:

12 Wherefore should the Egyptians speak, and say, For mischief did he bring them out, to slay them in the mountains, and to consume them from the face of the earth? Turn from thy fierce wrath, and repent of this evil against thy people.

13 Remember Abraham, Isaac, and Israel, thy servants, to whom thou swarest by thine own self, and saidst unto them, I will multiply your seed as the stars of heaven, and all this land that I have spoken of will I give unto your seed, and they shall inherit it for ever.

14 And the Lord repented of the evil which he thought to do unto his people.

Turn from = changed
Remember/ thought to do = mind

It is always to mean a changed mind.

Webster and many of the lexicons inject unbiblical definition of repentance. The OXFORD says to changed one's mind with regard to a past action or conduct through dissatisfaction with its result is perhaps biblical. The Latins called 'figure of correction'. It is a contrition with desire to and intention of amendment. This desire and intention are changed of mind thus repentance.