Why I now believe that salvation can be lost.

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Nat2019

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There seems to be alot of double standard regarding OSAS vs NO OSAS.

So you have a friend who writes something about a NO OSAS believer. They say that person is a law follower- following the old law. That NO OSAS believer says this is not what I believe, I already stated scriptures that I don't believe in following the Saturday sabbath and other old law scriptures. Is this person falsely accusing another of their beliefs?

Then a NO OSAS says to a OSAS you use Gods grace as a license for immorality- Why do you think we say this?

Because you think you dont need to live in accordance with Gods commands in the new testament to keep in accordance with Gods will. If we dont follow Gods will we cannot receive salvation. The reason I hate such a gospel is because it makes people think they can live any way they want and still go to heaven. In my own experience I have seen "good works" not important in OSAS in my life and those in the churches. So I think this gospel really is a license for immorality, people think they dont need to be accountable for there behavior to God.

Some people in OSAS may not believe this doctrine is promoting a person to continue in sin- but "personally" I have seen differently.

So now think about this before you call me dishonest etc, are you dishonest about saying I believe in following the "old law" because to me this isnt really fair either. So please dont cry in self pity about those who are dishonest.

Please do yourself a favour and look in the mirror.
 
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Guojing

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Nat2019 said:
There seems to be alot of double standard regarding OSAS vs NO OSAS.

So you have a friend who writes something about a NO OSAS believer. They say that person is a law follower- following the old law. That NO OSAS believer says this is not what I believe, I already stated scriptures that I don't believe in following the Saturday sabbath and other old law scriptures. Is this person falsely accusing another of their beliefs?

Then a NO OSAS says to a OSAS you use Gods grace as a license for immorality- Why do you think we say this?

Because you think you dont need to live in accordance with Gods commands in the new testament to keep in accordance with Gods will. If we dont follow Gods will we cannot receive salvation. The reason I hate such a gospel is because it makes people think they can live any way they want and still go to heaven. In my own experience I have seen "good works" not important in OSAS in my life and those in the churches. So I think this gospel really is a license for immorality, people think they dont need to be accountable for there behavior to God.

Some people in OSAS may not believe this doctrine is promoting a person to continue in sin- but "personally" I have seen differently.

So now think about this before you call me dishonest etc, are you dishonest about saying I believe in following the "old law" because to me this isnt really fair either. So please dont cry in self pity about those who are dishonest.

Please do yourself a favour and look in the mirror.
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As I have stated elsewhere, I can imagine two types of Jews on the Passover night in Egypt.

Some put their trust in the lamb blood, and just relax and enjoy the night, confident that it is sufficient.

Other Jews are more paranoid and try to help the blood with their works, praying fasting singing non stop to God.

In the end both houses first born are still saved because the blood at their doorpost is sufficient.

That is how I view this never ending argument about faith alone or faith and works for salvation. 🤗
 
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Nat2019

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Guojing said:
As I have stated elsewhere, I can imagine two types of Jews on the Passover night in Egypt.

Some put their trust in the lamb blood, and just relax and enjoy the night, confident that it is sufficient.

Other Jews are more paranoid and try to help the blood with their works, praying fasting singing non stop to God.

In the end both houses first born are still saved because the blood at their doorpost is sufficient.

That is how I view this never ending argument about faith alone or faith and works for salvation. 🤗
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I want to reply and say I am not a type of Jew. Just because a person believes they need to do the will of God for salvation as well as trust in the "blood" of the Lamb it doesnt make them a Jew relying on their own works in the passover. Jesus said to his father let "your will be done" jesus obeying his father to the point of the cross.

Please Dont get deceived in to thinking me or others on here dont put their trust in the "blood of the lamb" because to say that would make another false judgment😑.
 
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Nat2019

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Nat2019 said:
I want to reply and say I am not a type of Jew. Just because a person believes they need to do the will of God for salvation as well as trust in the "blood" of the Lamb it doesnt make them a Jew relying on their own works in the passover. Jesus said to his father let "your will be done" jesus obeying his father to the point of the cross.

Please Dont get deceived in to thinking me or others on here dont put their trust in the "blood of the lamb" because to say that would make another false judgment😑.
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So Guojing this statement doesn't apply to those rejecting OSAS. Because I tell you it's not what I believe. Please read my post.
 
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Guojing

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Nat2019 said:
So Guojing this statement doesn't apply to those rejecting OSAS. Because I tell you it's not what I believe. Please read my post.
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I am not trying to say that you are relying on your works for salvation actually, I see all you guys as just trying to "play safe" by adding works into it.

That is actually quite understandable behavior.
 
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Nat2019

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Guojing said:
I am not trying to say that you are relying on your works for salvation actually, I see all you guys as just trying to "play safe" by adding works into it.

That is actually quite understandable behavior.
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Thanks😁. Guojing. When we "add" works it doesnt mean works of the law, but following the will of God. That's what we mean. A work is Loving our brothers and sisters. Not following the sabbath or other "old" law commands. Because we are under the new covenant.
 
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Guojing

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Nat2019 said:
Thanks😁. Guojing. When we "add" works it doesnt mean works of the law, but following the will of God. That's what we mean. A work is Loving our brothers and sisters. Not following the sabbath or other "old" law commands. Because we are under the new covenant.
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Well, learn to see the other side as well. Notice during Exodus, God said "When I see the blood". Not, when you see the blood, nor your faith, your right behavior etc etc.

So those of us who believe in Paul's gospel of grace believe that our salvation is based on a covenant cut not between us and God, but God the Father cutting it with God the Son. In that covenant, God the Father agreed that whoever trust in his Son's DBR will be granted salvation. Works may come later but it has nothing to do with that covenant.

You may of course disagree and prefer to play safe, but surely it is not too difficult to understand how the other side sees it?
 
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Nat2019

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Guojing said:
Well, learn to see the other side as well. Notice during Exodus, God said "When I see the blood". Not, when you see the blood, nor your faith, your right behavior etc etc.

So those of us who believe in Paul's gospel of grace believe that our salvation is based on a covenant cut not between us and God, but God the Father cutting it with God the Son. In that covenant, God the Father agreed that whoever trust in his Son's DBR will be granted salvation. Works may come later but it has nothing to do with that covenant.

You may of course disagree and prefer to play safe, but surely it is not too difficult to understand how the other side sees it?
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Guojing you seem to have a certain view on my belief system. "Playing it safe"? What do you mean?
 
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Guojing

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Nat2019 said:
Guojing you seem to have a certain view on my belief system. "Playing it safe"? What do you mean?
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Well this entire thread is based on whether one can lose his salvation correct?

So there are some of us who don't believe it can be lost, because the covenant was never cut by us in the first place. It was cut between God and Jesus, and we are the "sleeping partners", like Abraham was.
 
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Noose

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Nat2019 said:
Thanks😁. Guojing. When we "add" works it doesnt mean works of the law, but following the will of God. That's what we mean. A work is Loving our brothers and sisters. Not following the sabbath or other "old" law commands. Because we are under the new covenant.
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Obedience to God is a must, that's how one gets to keep the word of God.
 
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Guojing

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Noose said:
Obedience to God is a must, that's how one gets to keep the word of God.
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So the difference between your view and some others is this

You believe obedience (in the form of doing good works) is necessary for salvation.

Others believe that the only obedience that is necessary for salvation is to obey God in resting from your works and trusting in the finished works of Jesus.

You may not share that view, you have the right to your own views. But surely you don't find it that difficult to understand the other side?
 
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Nat2019

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Guojing said:
Well this entire thread is based on whether one can lose his salvation correct?

So there are some of us who don't believe it can be lost, because the covenant was never cut by us in the first place. It was cut between God and Jesus, and we are the "sleeping partners", like Abraham was.
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I guess we all have different opinions on this issue 😉
 
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Nat2019

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Guojing said:
So the difference between your view and some others is this

You believe obedience (in the form of doing good works) is necessary for salvation.

Others believe that the only obedience that is necessary for salvation is to obey God in resting from your works and trusting in the finished works of Jesus.

You may not share that view, you have the right to your own views. But surely you don't find it that difficult to understand the other side?
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Hi Guojing thanks for allowing me to have my own views. Yes i can understand your view I used to believe the same thing, but couldn't seem to be free from my sins this way-without applying the bible to my life and seeing it as a necessity too. I have seen a drastic change in my behavior since I stopped following OSAS gospel. I am more careful of how i act and behave.

I used to not think it was important, so I swore, dressed immodestly and did others things against Gods word. Since I have changed doctrines I am more aware of living according to Gods word. I am more careful of my speech, behaviour etc I am also more careful of what I fill my mind with such as television and worldly music. I never used to to see the need to apply the bible in OSAS because God was doing all the work and I didnt need to do anything.
 
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Ruby123

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Guojing said:
So the difference between your view and some others is this

You believe obedience (in the form of doing good works) is necessary for salvation.

Others believe that the only obedience that is necessary for salvation is to obey God in resting from your works and trusting in the finished works of Jesus.

You may not share that view, you have the right to your own views. But surely you don't find it that difficult to understand the other side?
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Guojing do you follow Joseph Prince teaching? I think he is great.
 
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Guojing

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Ruby123 said:
Oh great, do you go to his church? Not that I idolise him but I appreciate his teaching.
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Yes I do. New Creation Church appears to be the only church in Singapore that leans towards dispensationalism.

But I do reflect on his teachings a lot so I don't just take them blindly.

If you want to understand Paul's gospel of grace better, NCC is probably the only church in Singapore that is Pauline.
 
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Nat2019

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Nat2019 said:
Hi Ruby do you know Joseph prince is a "prosperity" teacher who earns over $500,000 per year?
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He also believes your future sins are forgiven before you commit them. So future repentance obviously isnt needed, neither is present repentance. If a person was to become a Christian then left the faith to follow buddhism would he/she still go to heaven. Even if they followed another God?. Since all sins are automatically covered and forgiven.
 
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Ruby123

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Nat2019 said:
Hi Ruby do you know Joseph prince is a "prosperity" teacher who earns over $500,000 per year?
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Hi Nat,
I like his teaching, it has helped me greatly. As far as what he is or isn't is between him and the Lord.
 
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