Galatian Conundrums

[eternally-gratefull]

Also it plainly states. " who seemed to be pillars"

It does not say "who I am uncertian of"

Seemed to be means,, to appear to be but not actually.

So here is the definition;

G1380 dokeo to suppose, consider, imagine

Galatian 2
"7 But contrariwise, when they saw that the gospel of the uncircumcision was committed unto me, as the gospel of the circumcision was unto Peter; 8 (For he that wrought effectually in Peter to the apostleship of the circumcision, the same was mighty in me toward the Gentiles 9 And when James, Cephas, and John, who seemed to be pillars, perceived the grace that was given unto me, they gave to me and Barnabas the right hands of fellowship; that we should go unto the heathen, and they unto the circumcision."

Its like you hearing a person in charge seems to be a good supervisor

It does not mean they are or that they are not, it means they appear to be,

In pauls ciew at that times, it was his opinion

He did not say they were not, if he really thought they were not he would have said so

 

[garee]

John 14:23-26, " 23 Jesus answered him, “If anyone loves me, he will keep my word, and my Father will love him, and we will come to him and make our home with him. 24 Whoever does not love me does not keep my words. And the word that you hear is not mine but the Father's who sent me. 25 “These things I have spoken to you while I am still with you. 26 But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, he will teach you all things and bring to your remembrance all that I have said to you.

The part of that verse: and bring to your remembrance all that I have said to you. It jumped of the page a while back the "Comforting" Helper part.

 

[FollowtheShepherd]

The part of that verse: and bring to your remembrance all that I have said to you. It jumped of the page a while back the "Comforting" Helper part.

I really like it, it is comforting to me to know that the Spirit will teach us Jesus words!

 

[FollowtheShepherd]

Its like you hearing a person in charge seems to be a good supervisor

It does not mean they are or that they are not, it means they appear to be,

In pauls ciew at that times, it was his opinion

He did not say they were not, if he really thought they were not he would have said so

Galatians 2:
6 And from those who seemed to be influential (what they were makes no difference to me; God shows no partiality)—those, I say, who seemed influential added nothing to me. 7 On the contrary, when they saw that I had been entrusted with the gospel to the uncircumcised, just as Peter had been entrusted with the gospel to the circumcised 8 (for he who worked through Peter for his apostolic ministry to the circumcised worked also through me for mine to the Gentiles), 9 and when James and Cephas and John, who seemed to be pillars, perceived the grace that was given to me, they gave the right hand of fellowship to Barnabas and me, that we should go to the Gentiles and they to the circumcised. 10 Only, they asked us to remember the poor, the very thing I was eager to do. 11 But when Cephas came to Antioch, I opposed him to his face, because he stood condemned."

Or you don;t know Paul's writings, including Galatins well enough.

ans Peter says he was sent to Gentiles, so when Paul says "they to the circumcised" that is not accuracte.

 

[FollowtheShepherd]

The disciples knew Jesus in the flesh, Paul did not:

2 Corinthians 5:16, " 16 From now on, therefore, we regard no one according to the flesh. Even though we once regarded Christ according to the flesh, we regard him thus no longer.

Yet Jesus says His words "while still with you" while talking to the disciples.

Thus Paul's statement contradict Jesus:

John 14:23-26, " 23 Jesus answered him, “If anyone loves me, he will keep my word, and my Father will love him, and we will come to him and make our home with him. 24 Whoever does not love me does not keep my words. And the word that you hear is not mine but the Father's who sent me. 25 “These things I have spoken to you while I am still with you. 26 But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, he will teach you all things and bring to your remembrance all that I have said to you.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Galatians 2:
6 And from those who seemed to be influential (what they were makes no difference to me; God shows no partiality)—those, I say, who seemed influential added nothing to me. 7 On the contrary, when they saw that I had been entrusted with the gospel to the uncircumcised, just as Peter had been entrusted with the gospel to the circumcised 8 (for he who worked through Peter for his apostolic ministry to the circumcised worked also through me for mine to the Gentiles), 9 and when James and Cephas and John, who seemed to be pillars, perceived the grace that was given to me, they gave the right hand of fellowship to Barnabas and me, that we should go to the Gentiles and they to the circumcised. 10 Only, they asked us to remember the poor, the very thing I was eager to do. 11 But when Cephas came to Antioch, I opposed him to his face, because he stood condemned."

Or you don;t know Paul's writings, including Galatins well enough.

ans Peter says he was sent to Gentiles, so when Paul says "they to the circumcised" that is not accuracte.

Was peter sent to gentiles in acts 10 or not?

Was cornelius a jew?

 

[FollowtheShepherd]

Was peter sent to gentiles in acts 10 or not?

Was cornelius a jew?

Cornelius was a Roman gentile.

Peter says he was sent to gentiles,

Paul says Peter was not sent to gentiles.

Galatians 2:7-9, " 7 On the contrary, when they saw that I had been entrusted with the gospel to the uncircumcised, just as Peter had been entrusted with the gospel to the circumcised 8 (for he who worked through Peter for his apostolic ministry to the circumcised worked also through me for mine to the Gentiles), 9 and when James and Cephas and John, who seemed to be pillars, perceived the grace that was given to me, they gave the right hand of fellowship to Barnabas and me, that we should go to the Gentiles and they to the circumcised.

Acts 15:6-7, “So the apostles and the elders met to consider this statement. After a lengthy debate, Peter stood up and said to them, “Brothers, you know that in the early days God chose me to be the one among you through whom the Gentiles would hear the message of the gospel and believe."

 

[garee]

I asked where does this happen? Paul questioned tham implying they are not pillars of the faith in Gal 2, seems like an important thing to me since their names are on the foundation of the kingdom and they are Jesus chosen disciples to carry His message.

I am asking where does he then realize and say they are indeed pillars of the faith, can you show me where?

I would offer. Apostles (sent ones) are not sources of faith as God but pillars signified as the bride of Christ that lift up the one source of faith. The word of God as it is written. Tribes are used as gates to enter in and out with the gospel in that same description

Revelation 21:1-2 King James Version (KJV) And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.

The Holy Spirit set aside 12 apostles a remnant of those listed, 27 to describe his wife .

Revelation 21:11-12 King James Version (KJV) Having the glory of God: and her light was like unto a stone most precious, even like a jasper stone, clear as crystal; And had a wall great and high, and had twelve gates, and at the gates twelve angels, and names written thereon, which are the names of the twelve tribes of the children of Israel: On the east three gates; on the north three gates; on the south three gates; and on the west three gates. And the wall of the city had twelve foundations (pillars) , and in them the names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Cornelius was a Roman gentile.

Peter says he was sent to gentiles,

Paul says Peter was not sent to gentiles.

Galatians 2:7-9, " 7 On the contrary, when they saw that I had been entrusted with the gospel to the uncircumcised, just as Peter had been entrusted with the gospel to the circumcised 8 (for he who worked through Peter for his apostolic ministry to the circumcised worked also through me for mine to the Gentiles), 9 and when James and Cephas and John, who seemed to be pillars, perceived the grace that was given to me, they gave the right hand of fellowship to Barnabas and me, that we should go to the Gentiles and they to the circumcised.

Acts 15:6-7, “So the apostles and the elders met to consider this statement. After a lengthy debate, Peter stood up and said to them, “Brothers, you know that in the early days God chose me to be the one among you through whom the Gentiles would hear the message of the gospel and believe."

He was a gentile, thank you

After this event, paul was sent to gentiles, peter and the rest were to remain in jerusalem,

 

[RickStudies]

I would offer. Its the same gospel whether in respect to or not a heathen Jew (not born again) hears it by the faith of Christ working in them , or a gentile heathen . (not born again) hears it as the Holy Spirit give them ears to make it possible to believe.

Sent them to different locations. Its does not mean either one of them could not be used to bring the gospel to either group when in a mixed situation. It has to do with the gospel not flesh and blood. Not after any man

But I certify you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached of me is not after man. For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught it, but by the revelation of Jesus Christ .Galatians 1:11-12

I appriciate you garee because your heart is right. It shows in your words. But I still have trouble following your meaning

Galatians 1:16-18, Paul recieved his gospel over the course of three years in preparation. He had knowledge of mysteries that no one else had, including the 12. The revelations that were given to Paul completed the gospel.

That`s one difference that existed. The other difference was lifestyle. Replacement theology likes to believe that the original, Jewish followers of Jesus dropped the law and forsook it. But that isn`t true.

I never said there are two gospels today. Never said anything to indicate they had not intergrated. That took place over a period of years and there`s no way to say how many. When you read the epistles of Peter you get the impression that Paul`s epistles had been adopted by the Jewish churches. When you read the book of James there are verses to indicate the separation still existed at that time.

If you visit a local Baptist church and then a Pentecostal church is everything the same? Same teaching? Same lifestyle?

Answer for that is no, no and no.

 

[garee]

I appriciate you garee because your heart is right. It shows in your words. But I still have trouble following your meaning

Galatians 1:16-18, Paul recieved his gospel over the course of three years in preparation. He had knowledge of mysteries that no one else had, including the 12. The revelations that were given to Paul completed the gospel.

Hi Thanks for the reply,

Paul knew the scriptures as Saul but had a false zeal for knowing God . That false zeal as oral traditions of men got turned right-side up when he heard the gospel of his salvation. . . the understanding that comes through the scripture (sola scriptura) not from the fathers as a law of men.

I would not say it took him three years before he could offer it. He had the complete gospel when he first heard it.

It would seem he went out with the gospel into Arabia, and returned again unto Damascus for three years and then went to Jerusalem to see Peter. Not confirming with Peter or other apostles (flesh and blood) before he left. Not building on another man's work.

To reveal his Son in me, that I might preach him among the heathen; immediately I conferred not with flesh and blood:Neither went I up to Jerusalem to them which were apostles before me; but I went into Arabia, and returned again unto Damascus.
Then after three years I went up to Jerusalem to see Peter, and abode with him fifteen days. Galaaitians 16-18

That`s one difference that existed. The other difference was lifestyle. Replacement theology likes to believe that the original, Jewish followers of Jesus dropped the law and forsook it. But that isn`t true.

I would agree no such thing as replacement theology.

I never said there are two gospels today. Never said anything to indicate they had not intergrated. That took place over a period of years and there`s no way to say how many.

It has always been one. Its not the Jewish gospel mixed with the gentile gospel. The gospel of Christ not seen.


What took place over a couple of years? How many what?

 

[RickStudies]

Hi Thanks for the reply,

Paul knew the scriptures as Saul but had a false zeal for knowing God . That false zeal as oral traditions of men got turned right-side up when he heard the gospel of his salvation. . . the understanding that comes through the scripture (sola scriptura) not from the fathers as a law of men.

I would not say it took him three years before he could offer it. He had the complete gospel when he first heard it.

It would seem he went out with the gospel into Arabia, and returned again unto Damascus for three years and then went to Jerusalem to see Peter. Not confirming with Peter or other apostles (flesh and blood) before he left. Not building on another man's work.

To reveal his Son in me, that I might preach him among the heathen; immediately I conferred not with flesh and blood:Neither went I up to Jerusalem to them which were apostles before me; but I went into Arabia, and returned again unto Damascus.
Then after three years I went up to Jerusalem to see Peter, and abode with him fifteen days. Galaaitians 16-18




I would agree no such thing as replacement theology.



It has always been one. Its not the Jewish gospel mixed with the gentile gospel. The gospel of Christ not seen.


What took place over a couple of years? How many what?

I`ve posted these before but I`ll do it again just for you. Only Paul personalizes his gospel this way. Everyone else was preaching what Jesus taught during His time on earth.

Romans 16
25 Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began,

Ephesians 3
2 If ye have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which is given me to you-ward:

3 How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words,

4 Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ)

5 Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit;

6 That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel:

7 Whereof I was made a minister, according to the gift of the grace of God given unto me by the effectual working of his power.

8 Unto me, who am less than the least of all saints, is this grace given, that I should preach among the Gentiles the unsearchable riches of Christ;

1st Corinthians 2
7 But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world unto our glory:



Colossians 1
25 Whereof I am made a minister, according to the dispensation of God which is given to me for you, to fulfil the word of God;

26 Even the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints:

27 To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory:

28 Whom we preach, warning every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom; that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus:

29 Whereunto I also labour, striving according to his working, which worketh in me mightily.

 

[kaylagrl]

Galatian 2

7 But contrariwise, when they saw that the gospel of the uncircumcision was committed unto me, as the gospel of the circumcision was unto Peter;

8 (For he that wrought effectually in Peter to the apostleship of the circumcision, the same was mighty in me toward the Gentiles

9 And when James, Cephas, and John, who seemed to be pillars, perceived the grace that was given unto me, they gave to me and Barnabas the right hands of fellowship; that we should go unto the heathen, and they unto the circumcision.


Who knows what is going on in this passage?

Jesus, a great teacher, considered himself to be the long-awaited Messiah for the Jews. He believed that God would overthrow Rome and bring His kingdom to earth. In preparation for this, Jesus taught a message of unconditional love, tolerance, and non-judgmental acceptance of everyone. Alas, Jesus’ mission of inaugurating a new earthly age failed when the Romans crucified him.

Jesus’ followers, believing that God had raised their rabbi from the dead, continued to meet in Jerusalem under the leadership of James, Jesus’ brother. Their intention was to await the still-coming kingdom and continue observing Jesus’ brand of enlightened Judaism. But along came Saul of Tarsus, who faked a conversion in order to infiltrate the church. Peter and James and others who had actually known Jesus were suspicious of Saul, who had never met Jesus.

Then Saul, who started calling himself “Paul,” had a stroke of genius. He artfully combined traditional Hebrew ideas with those of pagan Greek philosophy, creating a new religion that could appeal to both Jews and Gentiles. He began preaching that Jesus was actually God, that Jesus’ death was linked to the Jewish system of sacrifice, that one could be saved by simply believing, and that the Mosaic law was obsolete. Paul’s zealous missionary activity and persuasive writings took his new “gospel” around the Roman Empire. The Jerusalem Church, including Peter and James, disowned Paul as a heretic and cult leader.

After the destruction of Jerusalem in A.D. 70, the Jewish Church lost authority, but the Gentile Church founded by Paul increased its influence. One of Paul’s fervent followers wrote the book of Acts, which gave Paul legendary status with its glowing portrayal of him as the hero of the church. Later, four unknown writers gathered scraps of information about Jesus and wrote books they called “Matthew,” “Mark,” Luke,” and “John”—but Paul’s theology, already dominant in the church, tainted the writers’ perspective. Thus, Paul’s religion won out over Jesus’ religion.

In short, Paul was a charlatan, an evangelical huckster who succeeded in twisting Jesus’ message of love into something Jesus himself would never recognize. It was Paul, not Jesus, who originated the “Christianity” of today.

Commonly, those who hold to the above theory also believe the following:

1) Jesus was not divine. He never claimed to be God, and he never intended to start a new religion.

2) The Bible is not an inspired book and is riddled with contradictions. None of the Bible, except possibly the book of James, was written by anyone who knew Jesus. There are fragments of Jesus’ teachings in the Gospels, but it is difficult to discern what he really said.

3) Paul was never a Pharisee and was not highly educated. His “conversion” was either a personal hallucinogenic experience or an outright fraud. His claims to be an apostle were attempts to further his own authority in the church.

4) Pauline theological “inventions” include a) the deity of Jesus; b) salvation by grace through faith; c) salvation through the blood of Jesus; d) the sinless nature of Jesus; e) the concept of original sin; and f) the Holy Spirit. None of these “new doctrines” were accepted by Jesus’ true followers.

5) The Gnostic Gospels are closer to the truth about Jesus than are the traditional four Gospels of the Bible.

So the above is Pauline Christianity. Is this what you believe? And if not, please point out what you disagree with. Thanks.

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

^ that sounds a lot like the gotquestions article I posted not long ago...

when the question during the discussion was covering (generally speaking) the DIFFERENCE between "Pauline Christianity" (FALSE DOCTRINE [in the above-mentioned article]) and "Pauline Dispensationalism" (which holds that "the Church which is His body" started in Acts 2 [Eph1:20-23 WHEN]... rather than what "hyper-dispensationalism" holds, that it started LATER in Acts... [like Acts 9, 15, 18, or 28 or the like])


ppl tend to blur what they are addressing

 

[kaylagrl]

^ that sounds a lot like the gotquestions article I posted not long ago...

when the question during the discussion was covering (generally speaking) the DIFFERENCE between "Pauline Christianity" (FALSE DOCTRINE [in the above-mentioned article]) and "Pauline Dispensationalism" (which holds that "the Church which is His body" started in Acts 2 [Eph1:20-23 WHEN]... rather than what "hyper-dispensationalism" holds, that it started LATER in Acts... [like Acts 9, 15, 18, or 28 or the like])


ppl tend to blur what they are addressing

Yeah things do get blurred. But this really puts the belief in a nutshell instead of arguing piece by piece.

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

Yeah things do get blurred. But this really puts the belief in a nutshell instead of arguing piece by piece.

I almost guarantee that nobody on this site holds to what that gotquestions article is speaking of ("Pauline CHRISTIANITY" NOT "Pauline DISPENSATIONALISM")… so to be asking that member if the items in that article is "what he holds to" is to grossly misunderstand what even he has been putting forth.

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

EDIT: (correction to my earlier post, I wrote too fast), I meant "LATER in Acts, like in Acts 9,13,18,28 or the like" (correction in the bold, where I had put "15" instead)

 

[kaylagrl]

I almost guarantee that nobody on this site holds to what that gotquestions article is speaking of ("Pauline CHRISTIANITY" NOT "Pauline DISPENSATIONALISM")… so to be asking that member if the items in that article is "what he holds to" is to grossly misunderstand what even he has been putting forth.

Humm perhaps he's not hyper. He can answer if he wishes.

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

Humm perhaps he's not hyper. He can answer if he wishes.

People should know what "hyper-dispensationalism" teaches, before they try to address it.

From what I see of his posts, it doesn't appear that he believes "the Church which is His body" started in Acts 9,13,18,28 or the like (as "hyper-dispensationalism" says) [<--instead of Acts 2 (Eph1:20-23 WHEN)]... this doesn't seem to have been his points he's been putting forth. JMHO

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

I am pro kingdom.
Jesus is pro kingdom.
He also told john not to reveal the 7 thunders.
I guess that is bunk too huh?
I am not cessationist so i claim ,like paul,the gifts and revelation,and power.
I dont need the gc disenfranchised.

Luke 10:19
Behold, I give unto you power to tread on serpents and scorpions, and over all the power of the enemy: and nothing shall by any means hurt you.
Acts 1:8
But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth.

You guys work tirelessly to disenfranchise Jesus and his words.
I will not sit up to that table.
Amazing that the 2 gospel mess AUTOMATICALLY reverts it's adherents into cessationism.
No sir.not me.

15 And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.
16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.
17 And these signs shall follow THEM THAT BELIEVE; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;
18 They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.

YOU ARE EITHER A BELIEVER OR NOT.
if a believer,are those signs following you????
Now i await another fancy dance to disenfranchise that verse also.

This may or may not relate... but (and I forget your viewpoint on the following) do you believe...

that the "144,000" will be on the earth at the same time as the "a great multitude... of all the nations" (b/f they get to their "destination," so to speak, as "coming out of the great tribulation")?

Will they exist on the earth during the same time-frame? (or do you have a differing view of that? I forget). Revelation 7