Not By Works

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dcontroversal said:
Morning BLUE cat LOVER...what a day....one friend just transferred to St Louis with a failing heart and my buddy that got shot in the head and killed last week was buried today on 25 acres close to my property....NO ONE knew how to run the back hoe SO I had to run it and put the dirt over him and this after a handle snapped on the coffin as they were lowering him into the hole and the coffin dropped sideways into the hole and almost dumped him out.............what a day........
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Hope your day got better bro!
 
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KJV1611 said:
Are there any Hebrew experts here that can explain why these two words mean different things.

I think it's because liš-’ō-wl means "In hell".
And šə-’ō-wl means "Therefore hell".

Can anyone confirm or deny this for me?

Psalm
לִשְׁא֑וֹל
liš-’ō-wl;
sheol: underworld (place to which people descend at death)
Original Word: שְׁאוֹל
Part of Speech: Noun Feminine
Transliteration: sheol
Phonetic Spelling: (sheh-ole')
Definition: underworld (place to which people descend at death)

Isaiah
שְּׁאוֹל֙
šə-’ō-wl
sheol: underworld (place to which people descend at death)
Original Word: שְׁאוֹל
Part of Speech: Noun Feminine
Transliteration: sheol
Phonetic Spelling: (sheh-ole')
Definition: underworld (place to which people descend at death)
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I am not a hebrew expert. in fact, It does not take a hebrew expert. just look at the words you posted.

in neither of the definitions do I see the word HELL, Nor do you So end of discussion (but you never let it stop you continue like the energizer bunny)
 
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KJV1611 said:
Ok I thought you were done with me. If you're not then I will continue with you.

The same Hebrew word liš-’ō-wl that was used in Psalm 16:10 is also used in Psalm 49:14.
Here it is rendered as "the grave".
This is the same place Jesus went in Psalm 16:10.
Is this grave, where death is feeding on them and their beauty is consumed from their dwelling, is this Paradise?

Psa 49:14 Like sheep they are laid in the grave; death shall feed on them; and the upright shall have dominion over them in the morning; and their beauty shall consume in the grave from their dwelling.

Psalm 16:10
HEB: תַעֲזֹ֣ב נַפְשִׁ֣י לִשְׁא֑וֹל לֹֽא־ תִתֵּ֥ן
NAS: my soul to Sheol; Nor
KJV: my soul in hell; neither wilt thou suffer
INT: abandon my soul to Sheol Nor allow

Psalm 31:17
HEB: רְ֝שָׁעִ֗ים יִדְּמ֥וּ לִשְׁאֽוֹל׃
NAS: let them be silent in Sheol.
KJV: [and] let them be silent in the grave.
INT: the wicked them be silent Sheol

Psalm 49:14
HEB: כַּצֹּ֤אן ׀ לִֽשְׁא֣וֹל שַׁתּוּ֮ מָ֤וֶת
NAS: they are appointed for Sheol; Death
KJV: they are laid in the grave; death
INT: sheep Sheol are appointed Death
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Ps 16: 10 would be error in the KJV. It should be translated sheol or grave. as you can see the other two translations are correct.
 
eternally-gratefull said:
I am not a hebrew expert. in fact, It does not take a hebrew expert. just look at the words you posted.

in neither of the definitions do I see the word HELL, Nor do you So end of discussion (but you never let it stop you continue like the energizer bunny)
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@dcontroversal has been leading people astray about Jesus going to hell and he knows it. So no I won't let it go.
 
VCO said:
fredoheaven - let me END SOME CONFUSION ON YOUR PART. I live in LINCOLN, NEBRASKSA. I NEVER WAS A MEMBER OF GRACE Commununity Church, Dr MacArthur has had a RADIO PROGRAM every night Mon. thru Fri., SINCE THE Early 1970's, I was not SAVED until the last week of 1977, AFTER THREE ATTEMPTS AT SUICIDE. I did even know there was a Christian Radio station, until about Oct of 1978. I WAS HUNGRY AS A HORSE FOR GOOD BIBLE TEACHING. I GOT BORED WITH MY COUNTRY and WESTERN music one night at work, so I changed the station. I found GRACE TO YOU just starting the series on REVELATION, and Dr. John MacArthur, was as BLESSING FOR MY HUNGRY SPIRIT. Soon I was ordering additional tapes from GRACE TO YOU. I could not get enough of that style of Teaching. Before long I was listening to 4 hours of BIBLE TEACHING a night. At one time I had over 500 hours of Bible Teaching, most by Dr. John MacArthur, and a few by Dr. Chuck Swindoll. AND over the years I listened to the 4 times EACH. We have only attended Grace Community Church two times while we were on Vacation. Here I also attended a COMMUNITY CHURCH, very, very similar to Grace Community Church.

The Lord put it on my Heart to Move to Northern California in 1988. He kept opening Doors to Prison Ministry, and I kept walking through. I ended up being a Volunteer Prison Chaplain in a supermax Prison for 9.5 years. My wife got a big promotion in another town, so we moved. They also had a supermax Prison, so I was there as a Volunteer Chaplain for 5.5 more years. I finally retired from my P.O. job. in 2005, thirty eight years of playing P.O. was enough. And we decided to move to another town in northern California to be close to Grandchildren until they graduated from High School. By then it was getting TOO expensive to live in Cal., so we moved to a small town in northern NEVADA. A couple years after that my wife had lots of trouble with kidney failure. And she died unexpectedly. That small town did not feel like home no more, so I move back to Lincoln, NEBRASKA, and go to the same Church we left from in 1988.

So there is more ways to be discipled by a VERY GOOD BIBLE TEACHER, than to go to his Church. I still have the deepest RESPECT for Dr. John MacArthur. I am 70 years old now, and it feels like I am getting older by the minute, 1 Timothy 5:1. I have had 7 strokes to date, so sooner or later, I will have a really big one. It would be nice IF I could live to see the RAPTURE, but it has to be SOON. I have been around for far to LONG, to be swayed theologically by your opinions.

Matthew 16:18 (YLT)
18 `And I also say to thee, that thou art a rock, and upon this rock I will build my assembly, and gates of Hades shall not prevail against it;

(quote)
Greek NASB Number: 1577

Greek Word: ἐκκλησία

Transliterated Word: ekklêsia
Root: from 1537 and 2564;

Definition: an assembly, a (religious) congregation:--

New American Standard Exhaustive Concordance of the Bible.
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[/QUOTE]
Thank your VCO for your fine testimony. I too was once a radio listener to the two teachers here in the Philippines heard over a local AM band station. I have even books offered free by Chuck Swindoll and... you really have ended my "assumption", but that is the very point I would also say when someone attempts to use "assumption" rather than facts. Let me then quote NAS.

NAS Exhaustive Concordance
Word Origin
from ek and kaleó
Definition
an assembly, a (religious) congregation
NASB Translation
assembly (3), church (74), churches (35), congregation (2).

Wow! Did you ever notice how the NAS translation out 114 only 3 x has been translated as an assembly? The real deal when NASB Translated it 74x as church and 35X as churches and 2X as a congregation. This simply means you are actually basing yours to its definition rather than its translation.

Shall we moved on...
 
eternally-gratefull said:
Your the one lading people astray saying jesus went to a place no one has been yet.

Your fighting your own battle.
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Act_2:31 He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption.

You argue with that EG because whether you call that place hell, sheol, hades or whatever the current word the newer versions are using, they are all talking about the same place... a place of suffering.

Do you think that since ALL BIBLES say that Jesus went to hell/hades, that maybe when Jesus took the thief on the cross to paradise, he visited with Abraham, Isaac and Jacob for a day or two and then went over to hell and had a little conversation with them?

What say you EG, did Jesus go to both places as ALL BIBLES SAY HE DID?
 
eternally-gratefull said:
Ps 16: 10 would be error in the KJV. It should be translated sheol or grave. as you can see the other two translations are correct.
Click to expand...

For thou wilt not leave my soul in hell; neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption

This is my take here in the passage why KJV is correct.

1. The soul is intangible; the body is tangible. Since the soul is concern then it refers to hell and not in reference to the body which is to the grave.
2. It could not be translated as Sheol because in English this is in reference to the underworld, the abode of the dead or departed spirits, conceived by the Hebrews as subterranean region clothed in thick darkness, return from which is impossible.
3. Somehow, transliteration is so far so good, however, this is not so good in English. A better way in an understandable manner is to be translated Hebrew Sheol as hell.
 
KJV1611 said:
Act_2:31 He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption.

You argue with that EG because whether you call that place hell, sheol, hades or whatever the current word the newer versions are using, they are all talking about the same place... a place of suffering.

Do you think that since ALL BIBLES say that Jesus went to hell/hades, that maybe when Jesus took the thief on the cross to paradise, he visited with Abraham, Isaac and Jacob for a day or two and then went over to hell and had a little conversation with them?

What say you EG, did Jesus go to both places as ALL BIBLES SAY HE DID?
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Acts 2: 31 in the greek. Hadoe (hades) not hell

Oh thats right the greek means nohing to you i forgot, you worship an english translation, forgive me for thinking the original text has any meaning to you
 
fredoheaven said:
For thou wilt not leave my soul in hell; neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption

This is my take here in the passage why KJV is correct.

1. The soul is intangible; the grave is tangible. Since the soul is concern then it refers to hell and not in reference to the body which is to the grave.
2. It could not be translated as Sheol because in English this is in reference to the underworld, the abode of the dead or departed spirits, conceived by the Hebrews as subterranean region clothed in thick darkness, return from which is impossible.
3. Somehow, transliteration is so far so good, however, this is not so good in English. A better way in an understandable manner is to be translated Hebrew Sheol as hell.
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Hell is the place created for satan and his angels

The souls of the lost will be sent there after they are judged at the great white throne,

The people who are delivered to christ for that judgment are delivered from hades, not hell

The kjv is in error
 
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eternally-gratefull said:
Acts 2: 31 in the greek. Hadoe (hades) not hell

Oh thats right the greek means nohing to you i forgot, you worship an english translation, forgive me for thinking the original text has any meaning to you
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Thats the problem with KJVOnlyism, KJV trumps greek-text!

About your avatar EG. Im not american but I do care about the american troops! To me I feel like if it wasnt for America's military keeping things under control, we would have a terror epidemic in our hands like never before!

America is the only western country (so far, lets hope it stays that way) who hasnt bought the lie. Btw ya'll wanna hear something funny? That presidential candidate the demoBrats have who is called "Kamala" that word actually means HORRIBLE in finnish! NO LIE! look it up if you dont believe me!
 
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eternally-gratefull said:
Hell is the place created for satan and his angels

The souls of the lost will be sent there after they are judged at the great white throne,

The people who are delivered to christ for that judgment are delivered from hades, not hell

The kjv is in error
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Do you have any comment/ counterpoint on Ps. 16:10 before progressing on?

Thanks
 
eternally-gratefull said:
Acts 2: 31 in the greek. Hadoe (hades) not hell

Oh thats right the greek means nohing to you i forgot, you worship an english translation, forgive me for thinking the original text has any meaning to you
Click to expand...
Acts 2:31 is quoting Psalm 16:10.

Psa_16:10 For thou wilt not leave my soul in hell; neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption.
 
Hevosmies said:
Thats the problem with KJVOnlyism, KJV trumps greek-text!

About your avatar EG. Im not american but I do care about the american troops! To me I feel like if it wasnt for America's military keeping things under control, we would have a terror epidemic in our hands like never before!

America is the only western country (so far, lets hope it stays that way) who hasnt bought the lie. Btw ya'll wanna hear something funny? That presidential candidate the demoBrats have who is called "Kamala" that word actually means HORRIBLE in finnish! NO LIE! look it up if you dont believe me!
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One thing about American troops, they have shown a history of giving their lives for people of other countries, sadly not sure how much longer that will last
 
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