Not By Works

dcontroversal · Sep 25, 2019

ONE is a PREPOSITION and ONE IS A NOUN.......GEESH man......how difficult is it to JUST embrace the truth.....WOW

KJV1611 · Sep 25, 2019

Ok I thought you were done with me. If you're not then I will continue with you.

The same Hebrew word liš-’ō-wl that was used in Psalm 16:10 is also used in Psalm 49:14.
Here it is rendered as "the grave".
This is the same place Jesus went in Psalm 16:10.
Is this grave, where death is feeding on them and their beauty is consumed from their dwelling, is this Paradise?

Psa 49:14 Like sheep they are laid in the grave; death shall feed on them; and the upright shall have dominion over them in the morning; and their beauty shall consume in the grave from their dwelling.

Psalm 16:10
HEB: תַעֲזֹ֣ב נַפְשִׁ֣י לִשְׁא֑וֹל לֹֽא־ תִתֵּ֥ן
NAS: my soul to Sheol; Nor
KJV: my soul in hell; neither wilt thou suffer
INT: abandon my soul to Sheol Nor allow

Psalm 31:17
HEB: רְ֝שָׁעִ֗ים יִדְּמ֥וּ לִשְׁאֽוֹל׃
NAS: let them be silent in Sheol.
KJV: [and] let them be silent in the grave.
INT: the wicked them be silent Sheol

Psalm 49:14
HEB: כַּצֹּ֤אן ׀ לִֽשְׁא֣וֹל שַׁתּוּ֮ מָ֤וֶת
NAS: they are appointed for Sheol; Death
KJV: they are laid in the grave; death
INT: sheep Sheol are appointed Death

dcontroversal · Sep 25, 2019

KJV1611 said:

Ummmm you were the one that said you were done with me....and Jesus will correct you when you stand before him since you are not willing to bend to the truth right now......

Can you read, spell and understand grammar?

PARADISE
HELL

Explain those two words and how they can possibly mean the same thing

and then try...

COMFORTED
TORMENTED

KJV1611 · Sep 25, 2019

dcontroversal said:

You didn’t answer my question. Those are the same Hebrew words and I’m asking you why is one paradise and the other hell?

VCO · Sep 25, 2019

dcontroversal said:

Look into it, the word was the Assembly, when Jesus said it, and the Apostles first wrote of it. IT ONLY became the Church after they started to CALL it that NAME, that they called it for themselves.

Macabeus · Sep 25, 2019

VCO said:

So are you REALLY READING what I wrote, or just skimming through it? You either have Selective memory or just plain forgetfulness.

I have already told you, I BELIEVE that there is ONLY ONE Part of HADES, and has always been that way. JUST A PLACE OF TORMENT FOR THE Unrighteous Human Spirits, and Possibly the PIT where the demons who tried to pollute the whole human race, so that Messiah could not Come from humans. Part of that VICTORY PARADE would have been the TRADITIONAL HE lead Captivity Captive. That is a common Roman expression where the conquering General Leads POWS in a Parade. IT DOES NOT SAY WHO THEY WERE, it could have been leaders of the REBELLIOUS ANGELS in the PIT, it could have been DEATH and HADES. or some inhabitants of Hades. BUT Such of A VICTORY PARADE WOULD HAVE BEEN WITNESSED BY THE FATHER, and the Parade was after HE Spiritually got to heaven, in my opinion. THE VICTORY BELONGS TO JESUS CHRIST.

Ephesians 4:8-10 (ASV)
8 Wherefore he saith, When he ascended on high, he led captivity captive, And gave gifts unto men.
9 (Now this, He ascended, what is it but that he also descended into the lower parts of the earth?
10 He that descended is the same also that ascended far above all the heavens, that he might fill all things.)

Luke 23:43 (ESV)
43 And he said to him, “Truly, I say to you, today you will be with me in Paradise.”

Now, HE ALSO HAD TO GO THERE in HIS body as OUR HIGH PRIEST, to Empty HIS BLOOD around the Base of the ALTAR in Heaven, so HE HAD TO WAIT FOR HIS BODY TO BE RESURRECTED, IN A GLORIFIED BODY. HIS resurrected body had not been there yet, WHICH IS WHY THESE VERSES:

John 20:16-17 (HCSB)
16 Jesus said, “Mary.” Turning around, she said to Him in Hebrew, “Rabbouni!”—which means “Teacher.”
17 “Don’t cling to Me,” Jesus told her, “for I have not yet ascended to the Father. But go to My brothers and tell them that I am ascending to My Father and your Father—to My God and your God.”

Jesus’ body went to the grave, and His soul went to Hades. Acts 2:27

See how simple that was?

Macabeus · Sep 25, 2019

VCO said:

The word in question is not ekklessia, the word I am asking about is Hades.

Does Acts 2:27 say body did not see corruption AND the Soul, psuche boot left in Hades or not.

Is sarx and psuche the same thing?

Macabeus · Sep 25, 2019

dcontroversal said:

Please exegete Acts 2:27

Macabeus · Sep 25, 2019

VCO said:

So are you REALLY READING what I wrote, or just skimming through it? You either have Selective memory or just plain forgetfulness.

I have already told you, I BELIEVE that there is ONLY ONE Part of HADES, and has always been that way. JUST A PLACE OF TORMENT FOR THE Unrighteous Human Spirits, and Possibly the PIT where the demons who tried to pollute the whole human race, so that Messiah could not Come from humans. Part of that VICTORY PARADE would have been the TRADITIONAL HE lead Captivity Captive. That is a common Roman expression where the conquering General Leads POWS in a Parade. IT DOES NOT SAY WHO THEY WERE, it could have been leaders of the REBELLIOUS ANGELS in the PIT, it could have been DEATH and HADES. or some inhabitants of Hades. BUT Such of A VICTORY PARADE WOULD HAVE BEEN WITNESSED BY THE FATHER, and the Parade was after HE Spiritually got to heaven, in my opinion. THE VICTORY BELONGS TO JESUS CHRIST.

Ephesians 4:8-10 (ASV)
8 Wherefore he saith, When he ascended on high, he led captivity captive, And gave gifts unto men.
9 (Now this, He ascended, what is it but that he also descended into the lower parts of the earth?
10 He that descended is the same also that ascended far above all the heavens, that he might fill all things.)

Luke 23:43 (ESV)
43 And he said to him, “Truly, I say to you, today you will be with me in Paradise.”

Now, HE ALSO HAD TO GO THERE in HIS body as OUR HIGH PRIEST, to Empty HIS BLOOD around the Base of the ALTAR in Heaven, so HE HAD TO WAIT FOR HIS BODY TO BE RESURRECTED, IN A GLORIFIED BODY. HIS resurrected body had not been there yet, WHICH IS WHY THESE VERSES:

John 20:16-17 (HCSB)
16 Jesus said, “Mary.” Turning around, she said to Him in Hebrew, “Rabbouni!”—which means “Teacher.”
17 “Don’t cling to Me,” Jesus told her, “for I have not yet ascended to the Father. But go to My brothers and tell them that I am ascending to My Father and your Father—to My God and your God.”

Please exegete actsc2:27

Where did body go?

Where did soul (psuche) go?

This passage (Acts 2:27) is applied to Jesus

Did Jesus’ body and soul go to the same place for the three days He was buried?

dcontroversal · Sep 25, 2019

VCO said:

Wrong....the word is assembly thru and thru....the word translated church comes from a German word...the entire N.T. uses the word Ekklesia which means assembly and is translated church....

Macabeus · Sep 25, 2019

Macabeus said:

Jesus body went to grave, soul went to Hades

Body and soul are not the same. (Matthew 10:28)

Jesus’ soul did not go to the same place His body did

Therefore, Hades in Acts 2:27 does not mean grave.

Simple

VCO · Sep 25, 2019

VCO said:

HERE IS A CLUE:

(quote)
. . .
Most concede that the original etymology is “called out,” but, it is contended, with the passing of time the root meaning faded away and gave place simply to “assembly, gathering, congregation.”

My criticism is not that these brothers are uncomfortable with the “called out” sense of the term — that is their privilege, however incorrect I believe it to be. It is their inflexible view, one that ridicules a considerable body of scholarship that conflicts with their personal perspective that I feel is misguided.
. . .
“Called Out” and “Assembly” not a contradiction
First, the idea of being a “called out” body and an “assembled” body are not mutually exclusive expressions. The single term can embrace both ideas.

The renowned scholar Adolf Deissmann stated that ekklesia was used with “the certain conviction that God had separated from the world His ‘saints’ in Christ, and had ‘called’ or ‘convened’ them to an assembly, which was ’God’s assembly,’ ’God’s muster,’ because God was the convener” (1927, 112).

Again:

Throughout the Greek world and right down to NT times (cf. Acts 19:39), ekklesia was the designation of the regular assembly of the whole body of citizens in a free city-state, “called out” (Gr, ek, “out,” and kalein, “to call”) by the herald for the discussion and decision of public business (Lambert 1929, 651).

J. H. Thayer described it as “a gathering of citizens called out from their homes into some public place; an assembly” (1968, 195-196; emphasis added). In his classic essay on ekklesia in Kittel’s remarkable work, Schmidt, who sometimes seems self-conflicting, nonetheless wrote:

The citizens [in Greek society] are the ekklesia, i.e., those who are summoned and called together by the herald. This teaches us something concerning the biblical and Christian usage, namely, that God in Christ calls men out of the world (1965, 513).

Again:

The founding of the ekklesia by Jesus at Mt. 16:18, to which appeal is so often made, consists solely and simply in this process of separating and concentrating His band of disciples (526).

. . . (end quote)
https://www.christiancourier.com/articles/1500-what-is-the-meaning-of-ekklesia

It seems the WORD "CHURCH" was invented to partially settle this ongoing argument.

VCO · Sep 26, 2019

Macabeus said:

Now I have both you and KJV1611 asking questions about the same verse. Do you know what that feels like?

FIRST OF ALL the BIBLE has different terms that can be translated to the meaning, SOUL. I tend to USE Jesus' definition of what SOUL IS. And I am sure BOTH you and KJV1611 will disagree with me. HEY, I LIKE THAT.

JESUS CALLED THE HUMAN MIND, THE SOUL.
Here is JESUS using a parable used an analogy of where HE IS TALKING TO HIMSELF, in HIS MIND.

Luke 12:16-21 (ESV)
16 And he told them a parable, saying, “The land of a rich man produced plentifully,
17 and he thought to himself, ‘What shall I do, for I have nowhere to store my crops?’
18 And he said, ‘I will do this: I will tear down my barns and build larger ones, and there I will store all my grain and my goods.
19 And I will say to my soul, “Soul, you have ample goods laid up for many years; relax, eat, drink, be merry.”’
20 But God said to him, ‘Fool! This night your soul is required of you, and the things you have prepared, whose will they be?’
21 So is the one who lays up treasure for himself and is not rich toward God.”

Using that as a definition of what SOUL is, His human Mind and Body were in the GRAVE.
AND since GOD IS AN ETERNAL SPIRIT, IT WAS ALIVE AND FUNCTIONING VERY WELL DURING THE TIME HE WAS IN THE GRAVE.
AND may have used that time to have HIS VICTORY PARADE, which is what Led captivity captive actually MEANS.
THUS He spiritually took the Thief on the CROSS personally, in HIS SPIRIT, to heaven with HIM. YES, PARADISE IS HEAVEN.

VCO · Sep 26, 2019

KJV1611 said:

When you man a paraphrase from older English Texts, you run a risk of Copying the Previous Translators Errors. In the Original KJV Preface, THEY ADMITTED IT WAS A PARAPHRASE to update that antiquated Language to the way KING JAMES used the English Language.
And they admitted the 5 or 6 earlier Translations had KNOW ERRORS IN THEM and it appears some UNKNOWN ERRORS IN THEM.

http://www.ccel.org/bible/kjv/preface/pref1.htm

Macabeus · Sep 26, 2019

VCO said:

Now I have both you and KJV1611 asking questions about the same verse. Do you know what that feels like?

FIRST OF ALL the BIBLE has different terms that can be translated to the meaning, SOUL. I tend to USE Jesus' definition of what SOUL IS. And I am sure BOTH you and KJV1611 will disagree with me. HEY, I LIKE THAT.

JESUS CALLED THE HUMAN MIND, THE SOUL.
Here is JESUS using a parable used an analogy of where HE IS TALKING TO HIMSELF, in HIS MIND.

Luke 12:16-21 (ESV)
16 And he told them a parable, saying, “The land of a rich man produced plentifully,
17 and he thought to himself, ‘What shall I do, for I have nowhere to store my crops?’
18 And he said, ‘I will do this: I will tear down my barns and build larger ones, and there I will store all my grain and my goods.
19 And I will say to my soul, “Soul, you have ample goods laid up for many years; relax, eat, drink, be merry.”’
20 But God said to him, ‘Fool! This night your soul is required of you, and the things you have prepared, whose will they be?’
21 So is the one who lays up treasure for himself and is not rich toward God.”

Using that as a definition of what SOUL is, His human Mind and Body were in the GRAVE.
AND since GOD IS AN ETERNAL SPIRIT, IT WAS ALIVE AND FUNCTIONING VERY WELL DURING THE TIME HE WAS IN THE GRAVE.
AND may have used that time to have HIS VICTORY PARADE, which is what Led captivity captive actually MEANS.
THUS He spiritually took the Thief on the CROSS personally, in HIS SPIRIT, to heaven with HIM. YES, PARADISE IS HEAVEN.

Basically, I think he is speaking to himself, "self, you have ample goods laid up..."

I don't think "mind, you have ample goods laid up for yourself" works.

In addition, the Bible says "as a man thinks in his heart, so is he. If you think that thoughts always come from the mind, then the heart is the mind too. But that doesn't work.

VCO · Sep 26, 2019

VCO said:

When you man a paraphrase from older English Texts, you run a risk of Copying the Previous Translators Errors. In the Original KJV Preface, THEY ADMITTED IT WAS A PARAPHRASE to update that antiquated Language to the way KING JAMES used the English Language.
And they admitted the 5 or 6 earlier Translations had KNOW ERRORS IN THEM and it appears some UNKNOWN ERRORS IN THEM.

http://www.ccel.org/bible/kjv/preface/pref1.htm

That third word should be Make.

Macabeus · Sep 26, 2019

VCO said:

Every occurence of soul (psuche) in New Testament in ? posts. If you read through these, I think it becomes clear that soul is not mind. It can mean the inward part of a man, ie the life in the body, or it can mean the WHOLE PERSON in some cases.

Matthew 12:18 Behold my servant, whom I have chosen; my beloved, in whom my soul is well pleased: I will put my spirit upon him, and he shall shew judgment to the Gentiles.

Mat 16:26
For what is a man profited, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul? or what shall a man give in exchange for his soul?
TOOLS

Mat 22:37
Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. (soul is not the same as mind here.)

Matthew 26:38

Then saith he unto them, My soul is exceeding sorrowful, even unto death: tarry ye here, and watch with me.
TOOLS

Mar 8:36
For what shall it profit a man, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul?
TOOLS

Mar 8:37
Or what shall a man give in exchange for his soul? (lose your mind? Nah.)
TOOLS

Mar 12:30
And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this is the first commandment. (soul and mind are not the same here)
TOOLS

Mar 12:33
And to love him with all the heart, and with all the understanding, and with all the soul, and with all the strength, and to love his neighbour as himself, is more than all whole burnt offerings and sacrifices. (Soul is not the same as understanding here)
TOOLS

Mar 14:34
And saith unto them, My soul is exceeding sorrowful unto death: tarry ye here, and watch.
TOOLS

Luk 1:46
And Mary said, My soul doth magnify the Lord,
TOOLS

Macabeus · Sep 26, 2019

Macabeus said:

Part two of soul does not mean mind

Luk 2:35
(Yea, a sword shall pierce through thy own soul also,) that the thoughts of many hearts may be revealed.
TOOLS

Luk 10:27
And he answering said, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy strength, and with all thy mind; and thy neighbour as thyself. (not the same as mind again)
TOOLS

Luk 12:19
And I will say to my soul, Soul, thou hast much goods laid up for many years; take thine ease, eat, drink, and be merry.
TOOLS

Luk 12:20
But God said unto him, Thou fool, this night thy soul shall be required of thee: then whose shall those things be, which thou hast provided?
TOOLS

Jhn 12:27
Now is my soul troubled; and what shall I say? Father, save me from this hour: but for this cause came I unto this hour.
TOOLS

Act 2:27
Because thou wilt not leave my soul in hell, neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption.
TOOLS

Act 2:31
He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption.
TOOLS

Act 2:43
And fear came upon every soul: and many wonders and signs were done by the apostles.
TOOLS

Act 3:23
And it shall come to pass, that every soul, which will not hear that prophet, shall be destroyed from among the people.
TOOLS

Act 4:32
And the multitude of them that believed were of one heart and of one soul: neither said any of them that ought of the things which he possessed was his own; but they had all things common.
TOOLS

Macabeus · Sep 26, 2019

PART 3 OF SOUL DOES NOT MEAN MIND

Rom 2:9
Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;
TOOLS

Rom 13:1
Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God.
TOOLS

1Co 15:45
And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.
TOOLS

2Co 1:23
Moreover I call God for a record upon my soul, that to spare you I came not as yet unto Corinth.
TOOLS

1Th 5:23
And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.
TOOLS

Heb 4:12
For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.
TOOLS

Heb 6:19
Which hope we have as an anchor of the soul, both sure and stedfast, and which entereth into that within the veil;
TOOLS

Heb 10:38
Now the just shall live by faith: but if any man draw back, my soul shall have no pleasure in him.
TOOLS

Heb 10:39
But we are not of them who draw back unto perdition; but of them that believe to the saving of the soul.
TOOLS

Jas 5:20
Let him know, that he which converteth the sinner from the error of his way shall save a soul from death, and shall hide a multitude of sins.
TOOLS

1Pe 2:11
Dearly beloved, I beseech you as strangers and pilgrims, abstain from fleshly lusts, which war against the soul;
TOOLS

2Pe 2:8
(For that righteous man dwelling among them, in seeing and hearing, vexed his righteous soul from day to day with their unlawful deeds

TOOLS

3Jo 1:2
Beloved, I wish above all things that thou mayest prosper and be in health, even as thy soul prospereth.
TOOLS

Rev 16:3
And the second angel poured out his vial upon the sea; and it became as the blood of a dead man: and every living soul died in the sea.
TOOLS

Rev 18:14
And the fruits that thy soul lusted after are departed from thee, and all things which were dainty and goodly are departed from thee, and thou shalt find them no more at all.

blue_ladybug · Sep 26, 2019

Not By Works

Banned

Banned

Banned

Banned

Senior Member

Banned

Banned

Banned

Banned

Banned

Banned

Senior Member

Senior Member

Senior Member

Banned

Senior Member

Banned

Banned

Banned

Senior Member