Did Jesus ever tell us that we no longer need to keep the law of Moses?

[FollowtheShepherd]

Sorry bro. I was talking about the law. But if you were talking about love then yes, If you could love 24/7 as jesus love you could be like him and be perfect the law in your actions..

the problem is, No human I aver met or read about, even in scripture has mastered that type of love.

No. you see you have this backwards

Jesus walked perfect in the law BECAUSE he was perfect in love.

The law does not teach love, it just proves to us how unloving we really are.

I don;t see it as backwards because this ONE fact. God says what love is, what righteousness is and what sin is. This is shown to men by God's law and carried out in action by Jesus.

The term "Jesus never sinned" means He never broke any of His Fathers laws, if "just love" was commanded it is an anything term but love is defined by God only.

1 John 5:2-3, " 2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God and obey his commandments. 3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments. And his commandments are not burdensome.

 

[FollowtheShepherd]

yes I have seen that

But I am talking about who says we are not to follow Christ

I can say I follow paul he was ANOTHER great example. and NOT say we should not follow christ.

that would be foolish on my part.

However someone here told me exactly that.

THey said said is the example for gentiles and Jesus and the 12 for Jews and here I was told basically Jesus was too perfect to follow.

 

[FollowtheShepherd]

But that was given to the jews, So why would it be a good thing (other than for health reasons)

God never told me to get circumcized, so if I am doing it thinking I am obeying God, then I am in some trouble, I have misrepresented God and thus placed my faith in somethign which is not even true

Well actually circumcision was told to gentiles also, as Gentiles were able to be grafted in from the beginning:

Exodus 12:48-49, " 48 If a stranger shall sojourn with you and would keep the Passover to the LORD, let all his males be circumcised. Then he may come near and keep it; he shall be as a native of the land. But no uncircumcised person shall eat of it. 49 There shall be one law for the native and for the stranger who sojourns among you.”

Side note, that "Passover": is truly Jesus IMO.

No I do not want to get into a debate as to if this is still valied, I simply want to say Jesus, His words and ways are the guide.

 

[FollowtheShepherd]

Exactly, Which is why our works are but filthy rags to God, but for some reason Works Salvationists deem themselves righteous. On another note, I apologize if I misunderstood you.

No worries, we can't fully explain our view in a post or two!

For me honeslty, the more I fall short the more it makes me want to focus and hold fast to Him, that I may be more like Him. Long way to go I know, but I think that is the narow path.

Matthew 7:12-14, " 12 “So whatever you wish that others would do to you, do also to them, for this is the Law and the Prophets. 13 “Enter by the narrow gate. For the gate is wide and the way is easy that leads to destruction, and those who enter by it are many. 14 For the gate is narrow and the way is hard that leads to life, and those who find it are few.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I don;t see it as backwards because this ONE fact. God says what love is, what righteousness is and what sin is. This is shown to men by God's law and carried out in action by Jesus.

Thats saying the power to love is from the law. Which is not true

jesus said the power of love is the law.

We obey BECAUSE we love

we do not LOVE because we obey, this can not be true, Because I can obey a command, yet not have an ounce of love in me for God or the people around me.

The term "Jesus never sinned" means He never broke any of His Fathers laws, if "just love" was commanded it is an anything term but love is defined by God only.

Yes, And he never broke any of Gods laws BECAUSE he loved his father and all people around him more than he did his own life. IE, he was sinless BECAUSE he loved,

1 John 5:2-3, " 2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God and obey his commandments. 3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments. And his commandments are not burdensome.

If love is the power behind obedience, then I guess it should be basic math that if a person is not being obedient, he has no love.

The power to obey is love, Not the law.

Jesus proved it.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

However someone here told me exactly that.

THey said said is the example for gentiles and Jesus and the 12 for Jews and here I was told basically Jesus was too perfect to follow.

who are you talking about, if it is who I am thinking about. eveythign that guy says does not make sense.. I would not take him to serious he speaks for himself.

 

[NayborBear]

That reminds me of these:

John 5:43, “I have come in My Father's Name, but you do not follow Me. Let another come in his own name; him you will follow.”

John 7:16-17, " 16 So Jesus answered them, “My teaching is not mine, but his who sent me. 17 If anyone's will is to do God's will, he will know whether the teaching is from God or whether I am speaking on my own authority."

John 14:23-26, " 23 Jesus answered him, “If anyone loves me, he will keep my word, and my Father will love him, and we will come to him and make our home with him. 24 Whoever does not love me does not keep my words. And the word that you hear is not mine but the Father's who sent me. 25 “These things I have spoken to you while I am still with you. 26 But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, he will teach you all things and bring to your remembrance all that I have said to you."

But I think "Marcionisim" is strong and well today, and many unknowingly adhere to this doctrine rather than Jesus actual words:

Mar·cion·ism: the doctrinal system of a sect of the second and third centuries a.d. accepting some parts of the New Testament (Paul) but denying Christ's corporality and humanity and condemning the Creator God of the Old Testament

Heretical sect founded in A.D. 144 at Rome by Marcion and continuing in the West for 300 years, but in the East some centuries longer, especially outside the Byzantine Empire. They rejected the writings of the Old Testament and taught that Christ was not the Son of the God of the Jews, but the Son of the good God, who was different from the God of the Ancient Covenant. They anticipated the more consistent dualism of Manichaeism and were finally absorbed by it. As they arose in the very infancy of Christianity and adopted from the beginning a strong ecclesiastical organization, parallel to that of the Catholic Church, they were perhaps the most dangerous foe Christianity has ever known.

In reality I think in it's modern form I think it reject the old testament and Jesus words.

Let's just "call it it as it really is."
1 John 4
3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.

Problem is? It's takes more "effort/s" in defeating/overcoming the spirit of anti christ, then it does in succumbing to it!

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Well actually circumcision was told to gentiles also, as Gentiles were able to be grafted in from the beginning:

Exodus 12:48-49, " 48 If a stranger shall sojourn with you and would keep the Passover to the LORD, let all his males be circumcised. Then he may come near and keep it; he shall be as a native of the land. But no uncircumcised person shall eat of it. 49 There shall be one law for the native and for the stranger who sojourns among you.”

Side note, that "Passover": is truly Jesus IMO.

No I do not want to get into a debate as to if this is still valied, I simply want to say Jesus, His words and ways are the guide.

That was under the law

we are not under the law

As a Gentile I am not trying to be received into the Jewish Faith.

I became a child of God. where there is no jew or gentile.

if someone is trying to enter the jewish faith, I suggest they read Galations

 

[Lightskin]

No worries, we can't fully explain our view in a post or two!

For me honeslty, the more I fall short the more it makes me want to focus and hold fast to Him, that I may be more like Him. Long way to go I know, but I think that is the narow path.

Matthew 7:12-14, " 12 “So whatever you wish that others would do to you, do also to them, for this is the Law and the Prophets. 13 “Enter by the narrow gate. For the gate is wide and the way is easy that leads to destruction, and those who enter by it are many. 14 For the gate is narrow and the way is hard that leads to life, and those who find it are few.

Jesus is the narrow gate. Having faith in Him is how you enter into eternal life.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Let's just "call it it as it really is."
1 John 4
3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.

Problem is? It's takes more "effort/s" in defeating/overcoming the spirit of anti christ, then it does in succumbing to it!

lol.. I should put you back on ignore. You have nothing really pertinate to add to the conversation, all you do is petty attack people. like this post here

 

[FollowtheShepherd]

Thats saying the power to love is from the law. Which is not true
jesus said the power of love is the law. We obey BECAUSE we love we do not LOVE because we obey, this can not be true, Because I can obey a command, yet not have an ounce of love in me for God or the people around me.

Yes, And he never broke any of Gods laws BECAUSE he loved his father and all people around him more than he did his own life. IE, he was sinless BECAUSE he loved,

No im not saying that, you can not find me saying that becasue I never did. Come on man you keep putting words in my mouth.

Im saying love, righteousness and sin are defined in God's law. Not the power to walk in it.

No law no love according to Jesus, He does not say "because no love people do not follow the law":

Matt 24:12, “And because of the increase in lawlessness, the love of many shall become cold."

1 John 5:2-3, " 2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God and obey his commandments. 3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments. And his commandments are not burdensome.

If love is the power behind obedience, then I guess it should be basic math that if a person is not being obedient, he has no love.

The power to obey is love, Not the law.

Jesus proved it.

The power to walk in it comes from the holy spirit.

Ezekiel 36:26-27, " 26 And I will give you a new heart, and a new spirit I will put within you. And I will remove the heart of stone from your flesh and give you a heart of flesh. 27 And I will put my Spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes and be careful to obey my rules.

 

[FollowtheShepherd]

That was under the law

we are not under the law

As a Gentile I am not trying to be received into the Jewish Faith.

I became a child of God. where there is no jew or gentile.

if someone is trying to enter the jewish faith, I suggest they read Galations

This is exactly what I said I did not want to get into, if it is still valid or not.

I simply said that yes circumcisim was given to gentiles. Not climing it is binding or not, just showing a verse.

No I do not want to get into a debate as to if this is still valied, I simply want to say Jesus, His words and ways are the guide.

Well actually circumcision was told to gentiles also, as Gentiles were able to be grafted in from the beginning:

Exodus 12:48-49, " 48 If a stranger shall sojourn with you and would keep the Passover to the LORD, let all his males be circumcised. Then he may come near and keep it; he shall be as a native of the land. But no uncircumcised person shall eat of it. 49 There shall be one law for the native and for the stranger who sojourns among you.”

Side note, that "Passover": is truly Jesus IMO.

No I do not want to get into a debate as to if this is still valied, I simply want to say Jesus, His words and ways are the guide.

 

[FollowtheShepherd]

who are you talking about, if it is who I am thinking about. eveythign that guy says does not make sense.. I would not take him to serious he speaks for himself.

Every person speaks for them self, I see each as an indivigual even if people have similar views. I never put people into catagories. LOL people have to me, I have been called "hebrew roots" and "judiazer" However I am my own person seeking the Creator.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

No im not saying that, you can not find me saying that becasue I never did. Come on man you keep putting words in my mouth.

Im saying love, righteousness and sin are defined in God's law. Not the power to walk in it.

No law no love according to Jesus, He does not say "because no love people do not follow the law":

Matt 24:12, “And because of the increase in lawlessness, the love of many shall become cold."

1 John 5:2-3, " 2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God and obey his commandments. 3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments. And his commandments are not burdensome.

Your saying love is defined as following the law. When the law does not define love, this is what I see in most of your posts. I am just telling you what I see

All sin is not defined by the law. it is a grave error to think this is true. there are many sins outside of Gods law. which are still sin, and makes us just as guilty as if we broke Gods law.

Jesus said LOVE fulfills the law.

A person who is follwoing love, does not need any law. because they would never break any law while they are loving.

The power to walk in it comes from the holy spirit.

Ezekiel 36:26-27, " 26 And I will give you a new heart, and a new spirit I will put within you. And I will remove the heart of stone from your flesh and give you a heart of flesh. 27 And I will put my Spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes and be careful to obey my rules.

Yes, And by walking in love

once again, God did not write the ministry of death on my heart. He did not have to.

a person walking in love does not need rules to follow. they will by nature not break them

a person breaks the rules when they STOP walkink in love

for this reason. All a person has to do is look at their mind, are they walking in love, or in self righteousness

The law led me to christ, It can not lead me any further it was not made for that purpose

 

[FollowtheShepherd]

No worries, we can't fully explain our view in a post or two!

For me honeslty, the more I fall short the more it makes me want to focus and hold fast to Him, that I may be more like Him. Long way to go I know, but I think that is the narow path.

Matthew 7:12-14, " 12 “So whatever you wish that others would do to you, do also to them, for this is the Law and the Prophets. 13 “Enter by the narrow gate. For the gate is wide and the way is easy that leads to destruction, and those who enter by it are many. 14 For the gate is narrow and the way is hard that leads to life, and those who find it are few.

Jesus is the narrow gate. Having faith in Him is how you enter into eternal life.

CHeck this verse out!

John 10:9, “I am the door. Whoever enters through Me, he shall be saved, and shall go in and shall go out and find pasture.”

door2374 - thura: a door, Original Word: θύρα, ας, ἡ, Part of Speech: Noun, Feminine, Transliteration: thura, Phonetic Spelling: (thoo'-rah), Short Definition: a door, opportunity, Definition: (a) a door, (b) met: an opportunity.


Matthew 7:12-14, " 12 “So whatever you wish that others would do to you, do also to them, for this is the Law and the Prophets. 13 “Enter by the narrow gate. For the gate is wide and the way is easy that leads to destruction, and those who enter by it are many. 14 For the gate is narrow and the way is hard that leads to life, and those who find it are few.

gate G4439 - pulé: a gate, Original Word: πύλη, ης, ἡ, Part of Speech: Noun, Feminine, Transliteration: pulé, Phonetic Spelling: (poo'-lay), Short Definition: a door, gate, Definition: a gate.

I see it as Jesus is the thura (door), His teachings are the pule (gate - narrow-).

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Every person speaks for them self, I see each as an indivigual even if people have similar views. I never put people into catagories. LOL people have to me, I have been called "hebrew roots" and "judiazer" However I am my own person seeking the Creator.

Yes, I hate it when people do this.

 

[FollowtheShepherd]

Let's just "call it it as it really is."
1 John 4
3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.

Problem is? It's takes more "effort/s" in defeating/overcoming the spirit of anti christ, then it does in succumbing to it!

Hard but correct.

2 John 1:9-11, " 9 Everyone who goes on ahead and does not abide in the teaching of Christ, does not have God. Whoever abides in the teaching has both the Father and the Son. 10 If anyone comes to you and does not bring this teaching, do not receive him into your house or give him any greeting, 11 for whoever greets him takes part in his wicked works."

John 12:46-50, " 46 I have come into the world as light, so that whoever believes in me may not remain in darkness. 47 If anyone hears my words and does not keep them, I do not judge him; for I did not come to judge the world but to save the world. 48 The one who rejects me and does not receive my words has a judge; the word that I have spoken will judge him on the last day. 49 For I have not spoken on my own authority, but the Father who sent me has himself given me a commandment—what to say and what to speak. 50 And I know that his commandment is eternal life. What I say, therefore, I say as the Father has told me.”

 

[Lightskin]

CHeck this verse out!

John 10:9, “I am the door. Whoever enters through Me, he shall be saved, and shall go in and shall go out and find pasture.”

door2374 - thura: a door, Original Word: θύρα, ας, ἡ, Part of Speech: Noun, Feminine, Transliteration: thura, Phonetic Spelling: (thoo'-rah), Short Definition: a door, opportunity, Definition: (a) a door, (b) met: an opportunity.


Matthew 7:12-14, " 12 “So whatever you wish that others would do to you, do also to them, for this is the Law and the Prophets. 13 “Enter by the narrow gate. For the gate is wide and the way is easy that leads to destruction, and those who enter by it are many. 14 For the gate is narrow and the way is hard that leads to life, and those who find it are few.

gate G4439 - pulé: a gate, Original Word: πύλη, ης, ἡ, Part of Speech: Noun, Feminine, Transliteration: pulé, Phonetic Spelling: (poo'-lay), Short Definition: a door, gate, Definition: a gate.

I see it as Jesus is the thura (door), His teachings are the pule (gate - narrow-).

And with that it is safe to say our works do not maintain our salvation.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Hard but correct.

2 John 1:9-11, " 9 Everyone who goes on ahead and does not abide in the teaching of Christ, does not have God. Whoever abides in the teaching has both the Father and the Son. 10 If anyone comes to you and does not bring this teaching, do not receive him into your house or give him any greeting, 11 for whoever greets him takes part in his wicked works."

John 12:46-50, " 46 I have come into the world as light, so that whoever believes in me may not remain in darkness. 47 If anyone hears my words and does not keep them, I do not judge him; for I did not come to judge the world but to save the world. 48 The one who rejects me and does not receive my words has a judge; the word that I have spoken will judge him on the last day. 49 For I have not spoken on my own authority, but the Father who sent me has himself given me a commandment—what to say and what to speak. 50 And I know that his commandment is eternal life. What I say, therefore, I say as the Father has told me.”

True

But he is saying that about people who do not fit that category,

 

[FollowtheShepherd]

Your saying love is defined as following the law. When the law does not define love, this is what I see in most of your posts. I am just telling you what I see

Matt 24:12, “And because of the increase in lawlessness, the love of many shall become cold."

1 John 5:2-3, " 2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God and obey his commandments. 3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments. And his commandments are not burdensome.

All sin is not defined by the law. it is a grave error to think this is true. there are many sins outside of Gods law. which are still sin, and makes us just as guilty as if we broke Gods law.

1 John 3:4 Everyone who makes a practice of sinning also practices lawlessness; sin is lawlessness.

Jesus said LOVE fulfills the law.
A person who is follwoing love, does not need any law. because they would never break any law while they are loving. Yes, And by walking in love once again, God did not write the ministry of death on my heart. He did not have to. a person walking in love does not need rules to follow. they will by nature not break them a person breaks the rules when they STOP walkink in love for this reason. All a person has to do is look at their mind, are they walking in love, or in self righteousness The law led me to christ, It can not lead me any further it was not made for that purpose

This is not death:

Matthew 22:37-40, " 37 And he said to him, “You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind. 38 This is the great and first commandment. 39 And a second is like it: You shall love your neighbor as yourself. 40 On these two commandments depend all the Law and the Prophets.”

Matthew 5:17-20, " 17 “Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. 18 For truly, I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass from the Law until all is accomplished. 19 Therefore whoever relaxes one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever does them and teaches them will be called great in the kingdom of heaven. 20 For I tell you, unless your righteousness exceeds that of the scribes and Pharisees, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven.

1 John 2:3-7, " 3 And by this we know that we have come to know him, if we keep his commandments. 4 Whoever says “I know him” but does not keep his commandments is a liar, and the truth is not in him, 5 but whoever keeps his word, in him truly the love of God is perfected. By this we may know that we are in him: 6 whoever says he abides in him ought to walk in the same way in which he walked. 7 Beloved, I am writing you no new commandment, but an old commandment that you had from the beginning. The old commandment is the word that you have heard.

James 2:8-12, " 8 If you really fulfill the royal law according to the Scripture, “You shall love your neighbor as yourself,” you are doing well. 9 But if you show partiality, you are committing sin and are convicted by the law as transgressors. 10 For whoever keeps the whole law but fails in one point has become accountable for all of it. 11 For he who said, “Do not commit adultery,” also said, “Do not murder.” If you do not commit adultery but do murder, you have become a transgressor of the law. 12 So speak and so act as those who are to be judged under the law of liberty.

Revelation 22:14-15, " 14 Blessed [are] they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city. 15 For without [are] dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.

Seems life His ways told in the law are life, and sin is death.

James 1:12-18, " 12 Blessed [is] the man that endureth temptation: for when he is tried, he shall receive the crown of life, which the Lord hath promised to them that love him. 13 Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man: 14 But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed. 15 Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death. 16 Do not err, my beloved brethren. 17 Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and cometh down from the Father of lights, with whom is no variableness, neither shadow of turning. 18 Of his own will begat he us with the word of truth, that we should be a kind of firstfruits of his creatures.