Not By Works

[eternally-gratefull]

I know.....just like the HELL issue above......it is OBVIOUSLY representing the grave or TOMB and NOT BEING IN HELL literally....some of these people must study the Cracker Jack version of the bible.....

I am worried about people who see us say things we have never said, it means they will never understand our faith in God, thus we can never share it,

But yeah, their interpretation of the word is flawed also,

Which is worse? I think they both pose grave problems

 

[dcontroversal]

I am worried about people who see us say things we have never said, it means they will never understand our faith in God, thus we can never share it,

But yeah, their interpretation of the word is flawed also,

Which is worse? I think they both pose grave problems

Amen....exactly why JESUS said --->He that has eyes to see and ears to hear.....and after almost 33 years of intensive study and 45 years in church I have concluded that the King Jimmy, if NOT looked at through the lens of the Greek and Hebrew can lead astray.......hence the current misapplication of the word translated HELL....

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Amen....exactly why JESUS said --->He that has eyes to see and ears to hear.....and after almost 33 years of intensive study and 45 years in church I have concluded that the King Jimmy, if NOT looked at through the lens of the Greek and Hebrew can lead astray.......hence the current misapplication of the word translated HELL....

Well i do believe he preached to the spirits in prison, and told them their fate was sealed

But still, that would be hades, not hell hades is delivered to jesus at the great white throne then cast to hell, crated for satan and his armies.

 

[dcontroversal]

Well i do believe he preached to the spirits in prison, and told them their fate was sealed

But still, that would be hades, not hell hades is delivered to jesus at the great white throne then cast to hell, crated for satan and his armies.

Look up what Peter states from the Greek.....concerning the above view.......He led CAPTIVITY CAPTIVE <---in particular this phrase.....

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Look up what Peter states from the Greek.....concerning the above view.......He led CAPTIVITY CAPTIVE <---in particular this phrase.....

Peter or paul?

Ephesians 4:8
Therefore He says: “When He ascended on high, He led captivity captive, And gave gifts to men.”

 

[dcontroversal]

Peter or paul?

Ephesians 4:8
Therefore He says: “When He ascended on high, He led captivity captive, And gave gifts to men.”

Sorry.....I just had coffee......both....Paul's statement in line with Peter's words in 1st Peter 3.........

Those he preached to were those temporarily held in Abraham's bosom as m the sin debt had not be satisfied..........

 

[dcontroversal]

Look up what PAUL states from the Greek.....concerning the above view.......He led CAPTIVITY CAPTIVE <---in particular this phrase.....

Bolded corrected....and compare with Peter's words in 1st Peter

And to fully grasp this phrase and it's meaning.....note it's usage in..... Judges 5:12 and Psalm 68:18

The spirits in PETER were SOMETIMES disobedient......I personally believe that some saved that did not believe the message of NOAH perished in the flood

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Sorry.....I just had coffee......both....Paul's statement in line with Peter's words in 1st Peter 3.........

Those he preached to were those temporarily held in Abraham's bosom as m the sin debt had not be satisfied..........

I think jesus explained it with the beggar, one was in abrahams bosom, the other was in hades, they were seperated by a gulf and could not cross over

Just took those in who were saved to heaven, (just calls this paradise) and left those in prison there (called hades) where they will be delivered to jesus for final judgment

 

[dcontroversal]

I think jesus explained it with the beggar, one was in abrahams bosom, the other was in hades, they were seperated by a gulf and could not cross over

Just took those in who were saved to heaven, (just calls this paradise) and left those in prison there (called hades) where they will be delivered to jesus for final judgment

Possible, but the usage of the phrase in Judges speaks of prisoners DELIVERED from the enemy in a good sense...

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Bolded corrected....and compare with Peter's words in 1st Peter

And to fully grasp this phrase and it's meaning.....note it's usage in..... Judges 5:12 and Psalm 68:18

The spirits in PETER were SOMETIMES disobedient......I personally believe that some saved that did not believe the message of NOAH perished in the flood

Ouch, no, i can not believe this..


αἰχμᾰλωσία, ἡ, (αἰχμάλωτος) captivity: a body of captives, Diod., N.T.

αἰχμαλωτίζωa; αἰχμαλωτεύω: to cause someone to become a prisoner of war—‘to make captive, to take captive, to capture someone in war.’
αἰχμαλωτίζωa: πεσοῦνται στόματι μαχαίρης καὶ αἰχμαλωτισθήσονται εἰς τὰ ἔθνη πάντα ‘they will be killed by the sword and taken captive to all countries’ Lk 21:24.
αἰχμαλωτεύω: ἀναβὰς εἰς ὕψος ᾐχμαλώτευσεν αἰχμαλωσίαν ‘when he went up to the very heights, he took many captives with him’ Eph 4:8. In Eph 4:8 αἰχμαλωσία ‘captivity’ (55.23) is added redundantly to αἰχμαλωτεύω due to Semitic usage. The combination of words simply means ‘to take many captives.’

Not sure what your getting at bro

 

[dcontroversal]

Ouch, no, i can not believe this..


αἰχμᾰλωσία, ἡ, (αἰχμάλωτος) captivity: a body of captives, Diod., N.T.

αἰχμαλωτίζωa; αἰχμαλωτεύω: to cause someone to become a prisoner of war—‘to make captive, to take captive, to capture someone in war.’
αἰχμαλωτίζωa: πεσοῦνται στόματι μαχαίρης καὶ αἰχμαλωτισθήσονται εἰς τὰ ἔθνη πάντα ‘they will be killed by the sword and taken captive to all countries’ Lk 21:24.
αἰχμαλωτεύω: ἀναβὰς εἰς ὕψος ᾐχμαλώτευσεν αἰχμαλωσίαν ‘when he went up to the very heights, he took many captives with him’ Eph 4:8. In Eph 4:8 αἰχμαλωσία ‘captivity’ (55.23) is added redundantly to αἰχμαλωτεύω due to Semitic usage. The combination of words simply means ‘to take many captives.’

Not sure what your getting at bro

What I am getting at is simple....Jesus did not go to hell........as some are saying above....and the words of Peter to me are clear....they were SOMETIMES disobedient which means that sometimes they WERE obedient <---same can be said of those that perished in the wilderness because of failing to believe they could not take the LAND due to the Giants......same principle....they were SOMETIMES obedient (shed blood of the Passover applied) but were DISOBEDIENT sometimes (did not take the land due to unbelief)

The OT is full of this premise.....

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Possible, but the usage of the phrase in Judges speaks of prisoners DELIVERED from the enemy in a good sense...

Judges 5: 12. “Awake, awake, Deborah!
Awake, awake, sing a song!
Arise, Barak, and lead your captives away,
O son of Abinoam!

Psalms again speaks of captives who, were taken prisoner, not the same as judges 5 where the prisoners are freed

 

[eternally-gratefull]

What I am getting at is simple....Jesus did not go to hell........as some are saying above....and the words of Peter to me are clear....they were SOMETIMES disobedient which means that sometimes they WERE obedient <---same can be said of those that perished in the wilderness because of failing to believe they could not take the LAND due to the Giants......same principle....they were SOMETIMES obedient (shed blood of the Passover applied) but were DISOBEDIENT sometimes (did not take the land due to unbelief)

The OT is full of this premise.....

Yes

I agree, jesus did not go to hell as some say, they are wrong!

 

[KJV1611]

Not even going to argue that HELL means the grave....but hey, jump on the bandwagon if you so chose.....

Today thou shalt be with me in HELL......sorry....he said Paradise.....if you think HELL as a place of torment is paradise....maybe you should go back to school....

2Sa 22:6 (KJV) The sorrows of hell compassed me about; the snares of death prevented me;

2Sa 22:7 (KJV) In my distress I called upon the LORD, and cried to my God: and he did hear my voice out of his temple, and my cry did enter into his ears.

You’re pretty good with the Old Testament, hopefully you can see that the verse I posted is Jesus.

He says the SORROWS of hell have surrounded him. He says he called out to God in his DISTRESS.

Does that sound like Paradise to you?

And by the way, I’m not arguing that the grave is hell, the grave is hell. Hell has two compartments and Jesus went to both of them.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

2Sa 22:6 (KJV) The sorrows of hell compassed me about; the snares of death prevented me;

2Sa 22:7 (KJV) In my distress I called upon the LORD, and cried to my God: and he did hear my voice out of his temple, and my cry did enter into his ears.
You’re pretty good with the Old Testament, hopefully you can see that the verse I posted is Jesus.

He says the SORROWS of hell have surrounded him. He says he called out to God in his DISTRESS.

Does that sound like Paradise to you?

And by the way, I’m not arguing that the grave is hell, the grave is hell. Hell has two compartments and Jesus went to both of them.

No one has been to hell yet

And jesus has not been to hell.

2 sam 2 is not hell, it is the abode of the dead,

No one is in hell yet, so no one has been there

The beast and false prophet will be the first two to be cast to hell, and they have not even come yet

 

[KJV1611]

I can’t help you

No one has been to hell yet

And jesus has not been to hell.

2 sam 2 is not hell, it is the abode of the dead,

No one is in hell yet, so no one has been there

The beast and false prophet will be the first two to be cast to hell, and they have not even come yet

I can’t help you if you won’t believe the words written in the Bible.

You read these newer translations and Greek dictionaries and you, like DC have no clue what hell is.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I can’t help you

Never asked you to, and your right you cant.

I can’t help you if you won’t believe the words written in the Bible.

You read these newer translations and Greek dictionaries and you, like DC have no clue what hell is.

I believe the words, written in the greek and hebrew.

Sadly, you do not, so your the one who can not be helped.

You hold a translation as inspired, when it is not

 

[CherieR]

Well i do believe he preached to the spirits in prison, and told them their fate was sealed

But still, that would be hades, not hell hades is delivered to jesus at the great white throne then cast to hell, crated for satan and his armies.

What is the difference? I thought hades and hell were the same...

 

[KJV1611]

Never asked you to, and your right you cant.



I believe the words, written in the greek and hebrew.

Sadly, you do not, so your the one who can not be helped.

You hold a translation as inspired, when it is not

I’m in total agreement, your gospel based on your study methods is polar opposite to my beliefs based on reading the KJV.

But would you please explain where Jesus was when the sorrows of hell surrounded him.

Where was he when he was crying out to God in distress?

Where was he when the earth shook and trembled; the foundations of heaven moved and shook, because he was wroth.

If this is not hell, a place of torment and sorrows located in the heart of the earth, then what do you call that place?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

What is the difference? I thought hades and hell were the same...

Hades is the abode of the dead right now

Hell is the permanent abode created for satan and his angels.. Also called the lake of fire, where all those found not written in the book of life, are sent

If you read revelations, Hades delievers its dead to jesus for that judgment, THEN those people are sent to hell.