Did Jesus ever tell us that we no longer need to keep the law of Moses?

[Grandpa]

Does Paul say to "Follow Yahshua the way I do" Or does Paul say; " I follow Yahshua, You should too!"?

SG

I think it is follow me as I follow Christ.

1 Corinthians 11:1 Be ye followers of me, even as I also am of Christ.

 

[DeighAnn]

Exactly.

So you say with your words that you are not justified by law.

And yet you try to be justified by law.

See if you can draw your own conclusions from that. I shouldn't have to paint the picture for you.

Galatians 5:4 Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.

I can't wait till God graces you with the wisdom and knowledge to discern

 

[SimpleGardner]

I think it is follow me as I follow Christ.

1 Corinthians 11:1 Be ye followers of me, even as I also am of Christ.

Need to be clearer.

Do you think Paul is saying follow my lead because I am following Christ as it should be done

or

Do you think Paul is saying you need to follow Christ, see I am following Christ too..

Please pick one or offer clarifications because the difference is important.

SG

 

[SimpleGardner]

I can't wait till God graces you with the wisdom and knowledge to discern

Hey DeighAnn,

What you have to recognize is that those who have not the Spirit of God cannot understand or even conceptualize the idea that anyone would want to, desire to, even enjoy keeping Gods laws even if they didn't get any reward whatsoever for it! Everything they do is carefully, strategically formulated to deal benifit to them. Whereas we love God and Neighbor and do these things out of love.

There is a gap, a chasm, a spiritual barrier. You cannot teach spirituality to a carnal man.

SG

 

[Grandpa]

Need to be clearer.

Do you think Paul is saying follow my lead because I am following Christ as it should be done

or

Do you think Paul is saying you need to follow Christ, see I am following Christ too..

Please pick one or offer clarifications because the difference is important.

SG

Paul is saying "Follow Me".

"I am following Christ".


He's not saying "try to emulate me because I am trying to emulate Christ."

He's also not saying "try to emulate Christ the way I am trying to emulate Christ."


He's saying Follow me as I show you how its done. And how I show you what is and isn't needed.

 

[Grandpa]

Hey DeighAnn,

What you have to recognize is that those who have not the Spirit of God cannot understand or even conceptualize the idea that anyone would want to, desire to, even enjoy keeping Gods laws even if they didn't get any reward whatsoever for it! Everything they do is carefully, strategically formulated to deal benifit to them. Whereas we love God and Neighbor and do these things out of love.

There is a gap, a chasm, a spiritual barrier. You cannot teach spirituality to a carnal man.

SG

Working at the law isn't spiritual.

It is actually quite carnal.

Only those who attempt to justify their work at the law try to convince others that its spiritual.

 

[Grandpa]

I can't wait till God graces you with the wisdom and knowledge to discern

I can spot a legalist from a mile away...

 

[SimpleGardner]

I can't wait till God graces you with the wisdom and knowledge to discern

See what I mean, look at #7906

SG

 

[Grandpa]

If you had paid attention to what I was really saying instead of making a bunch of assumptions you wouldn`t need to ask.

In the age to come the New Covenant will be the law for the entire world. No man has even read the New Covenant apart from the spiritual provisions that have already been revealed. Granted, what has been revealed about it is I`m pretty sure the most important part. As ministers of the new testament we recieve a down payment, the earnest of the Spirit the Bible tells us.

I can`t order a mountain to throw itself into the sea and lions don`t eat the grass because I`m not in the fullness of the New Covenant yet.

So your view is the Lord Jesus brought in the Spiritual Aspect of the New Covenant but the Literal aspect He will bring in at a later date?

I do have to admit that I didn't like the implication of what you were saying right off the bat.

Which I am sure you wouldn't like the implication of what I believe right off the bat, either.

 

[FollowtheShepherd]

No. You are right. Jesus is your example. Jesus is everyones example. He set the bar pretty high, though, is all I was trying to say.

Paul is saying "Follow Me".
"I am following Christ".
He's not saying "try to emulate me because I am trying to emulate Christ."
He's also not saying "try to emulate Christ the way I am trying to emulate Christ."
He's saying Follow me as I show you how its done. And how I show you what is and isn't needed.

I think it is follow me as I follow Christ.

1 Corinthians 11:1 Be ye followers of me, even as I also am of Christ.

I choose to follow Jesus.

John 13:15, “For I (Jesus) gave you an example, that you should do as I have done to you.”

Philippians 3:17-18, “Join together in imitating me, brothers, and pay close attention to those who live by the example we have given you. For I have often told you, and now tell you even with tears, that many live as enemies of the cross of Christ.”

1 Peter 2:21, “This is, in fact, what you were called to do, because Christ also suffered for you and left an example for you to follow in His steps.”

1 John 1:26, “The one who says that he abides in him must live the same way he (Jesus) himself lived.”

2 Timothy 1:13-15, "Follow the pattern of the sound words that you have heard from me, in the faith and love that are in Christ Jesus. By the Holy Spirit who dwells within us, guard the good deposit entrusted to you. You are aware that all who are in Asia turned away from me, among whom are Phygelus and Hermogenes.”

John 12:48, “He who rejects Me, and does not follow My words has One Who judges him. The word that I have spoken, the same will be used to judge him in the last day.”

 

[FollowtheShepherd]

I brought up the 3 because they all must be complete , not just one of them.

And I already did, in Revelation is when Jesus does it and in the Law judges exact the verdict, here is the basic principle:

1 John 5:16-17, " 16 If anyone sees his brother committing a sin not leading to death, he shall ask, and God will give him life—to those who commit sins that do not lead to death. There is sin that leads to death; I do not say that one should pray for that. 17 All wrongdoing is sin, but there is sin that does not lead to death.

Here is law example:

Exodus 21:12-17, " 12 “Whoever strikes a man so that he dies shall be put to death. 13 But if he did not lie in wait for him, but God let him fall into his hand, then I will appoint for you a place to which he may flee. 14 But if a man willfully attacks another to kill him by cunning, you shall take him from my altar, that he may die. 15 “Whoever strikes his father or his mother shall be put to death. 16 “Whoever steals a man and sells him, and anyone found in possession of him, shall be put to death. 17 “Whoever curses his father or his mother shall be put to death."

Since Jesus is the judge, He will do His job:

Acts 10:42-43, " 42 And he commanded us to preach to the people and to testify that he is the one appointed by God to be judge of the living and the dead. 43 To him all the prophets bear witness that everyone who believes in him receives forgiveness of sins through his name.”

Acts 17:30-31, " 30 The times of ignorance God overlooked, but now he commands all people everywhere to repent, 31 because he has fixed a day on which he will judge the world in righteousness by a man whom he has appointed; and of this he has given assurance to all by raising him from the dead.”

John 5:22-23, " 22 The Father judges no one, but has given all judgment to the Son, 23 that all may honor the Son, just as they honor the Father. Whoever does not honor the Son does not honor the Father who sent him.

Revelation 18:6-8, " 6 Pay her back as she herself has paid back others, and repay her double for her deeds; mix a double portion for her in the cup she mixed. 7 As she glorified herself and lived in luxury, so give her a like measure of torment and mourning, since in her heart she says, ‘I sit as a queen, I am no widow, and mourning I shall never see.’ 8 For this reason her plagues will come in a single day, death and mourning and famine, and she will be burned up with fire; for mighty is the Lord God who has judged her.”

Revelation 19:11-16, " 11 Then I saw heaven opened, and behold, a white horse! The one sitting on it is called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he judges and makes war. 12 His eyes are like a flame of fire, and on his head are many diadems, and he has a name written that no one knows but himself. 13 He is clothed in a robe dipped in blood, and the name by which he is called is The Word of God. 14 And the armies of heaven, arrayed in fine linen, white and pure, were following him on white horses. 15 From his mouth comes a sharp sword with which to strike down the nations, and he will rule them with a rod of iron. He will tread the winepress of the fury of the wrath of God the Almighty. 16 On his robe and on his thigh he has a name written, King of kings and Lord of lords.

Ok exodus is god, as the leader of Israel, imposing capitol punishment on certain sins, and the nation of israel was commanded to follow through with those judgments

Revelation is about the final judgment on those who do not believe or reject christ, not on people who commit certain sins.

So i still do not see in the law what you are saying

The law showed redemption (sacrifice) which saves us from judgment jesus fulfilled that, by offering salvation to everyone, no matter what sin they commited,

Here;

1 John 3:4, "Whoever commits sin, transgresses also the Law; for sin is the transgression of the Law."

Matt 13:41-43, "The Son of Man will send his angels, and they will gather out of his kingdom all causes of sin and all law-breakers, and throw them into the fiery furnace. In that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth. Then the righteous will shine like the sun in the kingdom of their Father. He who has ears, let him hear."

 

[FollowtheShepherd]

Jesus teachings are forever that is not the argument

They argument is does the law teach us how to be morally upright people who love god and serves others

Or is it the love of god and others the means by which we do not break the law (as well as not commit the many sins which are not mentioned by the law)

If we focus on law, we miss on so much in my view

I didn't say focus on the law i have been saying focus on Jesus, but also those in the new covenant will have God's law in their mind and heart:

Hebrews 8:10, " For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, declares the Lord: I will put my laws into their minds, and write them on their hearts, and I will be their God, and they shall be my people."

Can't be in your mind and not think about it.

 

[Grandpa]

I choose to follow Jesus.

John 13:15, “For I (Jesus) gave you an example, that you should do as I have done to you.”

Philippians 3:17-18, “Join together in imitating me, brothers, and pay close attention to those who live by the example we have given you. For I have often told you, and now tell you even with tears, that many live as enemies of the cross of Christ.”

1 Peter 2:21, “This is, in fact, what you were called to do, because Christ also suffered for you and left an example for you to follow in His steps.”

1 John 1:26, “The one who says that he abides in him must live the same way he (Jesus) himself lived.”

2 Timothy 1:13-15, "Follow the pattern of the sound words that you have heard from me, in the faith and love that are in Christ Jesus. By the Holy Spirit who dwells within us, guard the good deposit entrusted to you. You are aware that all who are in Asia turned away from me, among whom are Phygelus and Hermogenes.”

John 12:48, “He who rejects Me, and does not follow My words has One Who judges him. The word that I have spoken, the same will be used to judge him in the last day.”

Me too.

 

[RickStudies]

So your view is the Lord Jesus brought in the Spiritual Aspect of the New Covenant but the Literal aspect He will bring in at a later date?

I do have to admit that I didn't like the implication of what you were saying right off the bat.

Which I am sure you wouldn't like the implication of what I believe right off the bat, either.

I think I have a different way of looking at exchanging views. I don`t think it happens unless you hear a person out and consider what they are saying before you draw your conclusions.

 

[FollowtheShepherd]

Yes i agree with you

But my point is how did jesus follow the law

1. Because he was focused on it 24/7 so he was sure to keep it,

Or 2. because he spent his life putting the needs of everyone he met, including his enemy, above his own needs.

In my view, it is the second, he not only gave us the law of love, (love god and neighbor and you will not break the law) he gave us the example of how to practice that love

Does this make sense?

I have a view directly from the word:

Isaiah 61:1-2, " 1 The Spirit of the Lord GOD is upon me, because the LORD has anointed me to bring good news to the poor; he has sent me to bind up the brokenhearted, to proclaim liberty to the captives, and the opening of the prison to those who are bound; 2 to proclaim the year of the LORD's favor, and the day of vengeance of our God; to comfort all who mourn;"

Similar to those in the new covenant:

Hebrews 8:10, " For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, declares the Lord: I will put my laws into their minds, and write them on their hearts, and I will be their God, and they shall be my people."

Ezekiel 36:26-27, " 26 And I will give you a new heart, and a new spirit I will put within you. And I will remove the heart of stone from your flesh and give you a heart of flesh. 27 And I will put my Spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes and be careful to obey my rules.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

So, as you were asked, could you still be wrong?

SG

Yes, you can always show me where, as anyone can.

Are you open though

 

[FollowtheShepherd]

He is in 100 % agreement that why he said, i do what i hear,

I agree 100%

 

[FollowtheShepherd]

I still do not see it, bro, forgive me..

I see revelation as the judgment people were already headed to before the law was even given

I quoted youe last reply, meant to quote this one I think. WHen you broke up my post into so many replies it;s hard to follow when it spread over so many posts. Easier to track each point tho.

Here;

1 John 3:4, "Whoever commits sin, transgresses also the Law; for sin is the transgression of the Law."

Matt 13:41-43, "The Son of Man will send his angels, and they will gather out of his kingdom all causes of sin and all law-breakers, and throw them into the fiery furnace. In that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth. Then the righteous will shine like the sun in the kingdom of their Father. He who has ears, let him hear."

 

[eternally-gratefull]

1Jn 3:4-10 NIV

(4) Everyone who sins breaks the law; in fact, sin is lawlessness.

(5) But you know that he appeared so that he might take away our sins. And in him is no sin.

(6) No one who lives in him keeps on sinning. No one who continues to sin has either seen him or known him.

(7) Dear children, do not let anyone lead you astray. He who does what is right is righteous, just as he is righteous.

(8) He who does what is sinful is of the devil, because the devil has been sinning from the beginning. The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the devil's work.

(9) No one who is born of God will continue to sin, because God's seed remains in him; he cannot go on sinning, because he has been born of God.

(10) This is how we know who the children of God are and who the children of the devil are: Anyone who does not do what is right is not a child of God; nor is anyone who does not love his brother.

Still proves my point,

Gods children ARE obedient, not might be! Why? Because gid loved them as john 4 says.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

That`s one of the reasons why words and works are important because they are products of the salvation easily discerned by the people around you. Outside of a few simple things perfect doctrine isn`t required. Some here are to quick to judge, to quick to conclude someone is heretic.

Yeah, but fake believers can do works that appear righteous, they prove nothing

Thats why being grounded in the word is important