Not By Works

[dcontroversal]

Make no mistake....you challenge NOTHING.....!!

 

[UnderGrace]

let me answer you like this-

this is from a pastor, heard it many years ago ( paraphrase )

" when a person truly comes to Christ, they receive the Holy Sprit. so, they have the Sprit and the flesh. so, then what does the person do? which one do they exercise?

if one exercises the Sprit, then the flesh get weaker and weaker. if one does the opposite, then the opposite happens.

so, a lot of people are truly saved, but they have a strong flesh, and a weak Sprit. we all should have the opposite'"


so, there you are.

I like this ... sums it up nicely!!

 

[UnderGrace]

Make no mistake....you challenge NOTHING.....!!

That would be me... I really should have a picture of a mouse!!
Hehehe

 

[Macabeus]

let me answer you like this-

this is from a pastor, heard it many years ago ( paraphrase )

" when a person truly comes to Christ, they receive the Holy Sprit. so, they have the Sprit and the flesh. so, then what does the person do? which one do they exercise?

if one exercises the Sprit, then the flesh get weaker and weaker. if one does the opposite, then the opposite happens.

so, a lot of people are truly saved, but they have a strong flesh, and a weak Sprit. we all should have the opposite'"


so, there you are.

I agree with that. So back to the questions.

A. What does 1 Peter 1:5 teach?

B. What is the purpose of Jesus priestly ministry?

I’m not going to push you. Pray about it, take as long as you like, I’m in no hurry. I won’t ask you again. If you don’t want to answer, fine. Or take as long as you want

Forget about defending your position. Just look at the 1 Peter 1:5 and what Hebrews says about Jesus priestly ministry with an open mind, and let them say what they say

Maybe what you get out of them will show me my error

 

[Macabeus]

I like this ... sums it up nicely!!

But doesn’t answer the question. I agree with that too, but it doesn’t answer the question

How come you guys never seem to exegete scripture. You give stories, analogies, philosophical points. But what is 1 Peter 1:5 about? What does it mean we are kept by the power of God through faith? What is the purpose of Jesus’ High Priestly ministry? Forget about you believe and what I believe. Just Look at the texts with a clear, open mind, setting aside what you are trying to argue. Let the scripture speak for itself

 

[KJV1611]

This is why OSAS cannot safely be preached. It leads to this careless attitude. Granted you are the only one to let the cat out the bag. But this is what most popular OSAS pastors on TV are saying. I dare not say most OSAS advocates, since I cannot know the hearts and minds of people, but based on what is going on in professing Christianity today, I can make an educated guess. Christian yoga? No problem, all things are lawful. Name the sin "all things are lawful, no problem". For anyone to even suggest fornication is lawful and a Christian is not a fornicator if he fornicates is just...unbelievable and shows where we are. I cannot believe someone would say that? Never in Church history ......

Did you check the context btw, it does not say fornication is lawful to you. This is a serious error, I hope you read the entire chapter and notice that just prior to saying that Paul gives many warnings about what happened to israel and how God slayed them in the wilderness and tells us its a warning for US as well. Here is the context:

19Am I suggesting, then, that food sacrificed to an idol is anything, or that an idol is anything? 20No, but the sacrifices of pagans are offered to demons, not to God. And I do not want you to be participants with demons. 21You cannot drink the cup of the Lord and the cup of demons too; you cannot partake in the table of the Lord and the table of demons too. 22Are we trying to provoke the Lord to jealousy? Are we stronger than He?
All to God’s Glory
23“Everything is permissible,” but not everything is beneficial. “Everything is permissible,” but not everything is edifying. 24No one should seek his own good, but the good of others.
25Eat anything sold in the meat market without raising questions of conscience, 26for, “The earth is the Lord’s, and the fullness thereof.”


If we fornicate we are indeed fornicators, God is not playing games, God called out fornicators in the church, read Revelation chapter 2, 1 cor 6:9, letters to the churches. Paul's warnings are sent to Churches, as the letters themselves declare, what you are saying is gnosticism. Where all sin is in the flesh, but the soul/spirit spotless, so you can sin and it wont affect the soul. Text-book gnosticism. Very dangerous early heresy, debunked the epistles of John, I suggest everyone reads those. It was defeated but has made a comeback recently with Christian TV, and people don't recognize it since so much time has passed from the gnostic "hay-day".

Quick question. David, a man after Gods own heart, committed fornication, adultery and murder all during the time that he was a man after God's own heart.

David also had many wives and many concubines. Do you think David was a fornicator in God's eyes, do you think he was a good Christian or a lost person? Did you know that David was a Christian?

 

[Macabeus]

But doesn’t answer the question. I agree with that too, but it doesn’t answer the question

How come you guys never seem to exegete scripture. You give stories, analogies, philosophical points. But what is 1 Peter 1:5 about? What does it mean we are kept by the power of God through faith? What is the purpose of Jesus’ High Priestly ministry? Forget about you believe and what I believe. Just Look at the texts with a clear, open mind, setting aside what you are trying to argue. Let the scripture speak for itself

For example, what does “He is able to save to the uttermost those that come to God through Him SEEING HE EVER LIVETH TO MAKE INTERCESSION FOar THEM.

And.

Being reconciled by His death (past tense) MUCH MORE being reconciled we will be saved (future tense) by His life.

And

 

[Macabeus]

Quick question. David, a man after Gods own heart, committed fornication, adultery and murder all during the time that he was a man after God's own heart.

David also had many wives and many concubines. Do you think David was a fornicator in God's eyes, do you think he was a good Christian or a lost person? Did you know that David was a Christian?

Did David have the same blessings and benefits we have? Heb 11:40.

 

[gb9]

But doesn’t answer the question. I agree with that too, but it doesn’t answer the question

How come you guys never seem to exegete scripture. You give stories, analogies, philosophical points. But what is 1 Peter 1:5 about? What does it mean we are kept by the power of God through faith? What is the purpose of Jesus’ High Priestly ministry? Forget about you believe and what I believe. Just Look at the texts with a clear, open mind, setting aside what you are trying to argue. Let the scripture speak for itself

why are you always firing off questions? why don't you just state your beliefs ?

and. I do not build theology around individual verses. bad theology to do that. far better to use the N.T. as a whole.

and, just so you won't whine, what I posted above was a fancy way of saying " walk in the Sprit, and you will not fulfill the lust of the flesh.'

and, if you keep reading 1st Peter 1 , he says basically the same thing. so, there is your Scripture.

 

[KJV1611]

Did David have the same blessings and benefits we have? Heb 11:40.

Heb 11:39 And these all, having obtained a good report through faith, received not the promise:
Heb 11:40 God having provided some better thing for us, that they without us should not be made perfect.

What was the promise that they didn't get until Christ rose from the dead, that will answer your question. Other than not receiving that promise, they were identical to us.

 

[UnderGrace]

why are you always firing off questions? why don't you just state your beliefs ?

and. I do not build theology around individual verses. bad theology to do that. far better to use the N.T. as a whole.

and, just so you won't whine, what I posted above was a fancy way of saying " walk in the Sprit, and you will not fulfill the lust of the flesh.'

and, if you keep reading 1st Peter 1 , he says basically the same thing. so, there is your Scripture.

A very good question indeed

 

[Macabeus]

let me answer you like this-

this is from a pastor, heard it many years ago ( paraphrase )

" when a person truly comes to Christ, they receive the Holy Sprit. so, they have the Sprit and the flesh. so, then what does the person do? which one do they exercise?

if one exercises the Sprit, then the flesh get weaker and weaker. if one does the opposite, then the opposite happens.

so, a lot of people are truly saved, but they have a strong flesh, and a weak Sprit. we all should have the opposite'"


so, there you are.

They have a strong flesh and a weak spirit because they are taught that that is one of thei options, instead of being told what God has provided for them. As soon as they get out of the watered down gospel, they will grow and learn to walk in the Spirit, because the Bible not only says it is possible, it expects it. Do you want verses

 

[dcontroversal]

Quick question. David, a man after Gods own heart, committed fornication, adultery and murder all during the time that he was a man after God's own heart.

David also had many wives and many concubines. Do you think David was a fornicator in God's eyes, do you think he was a good Christian or a lost person? Did you know that David was a Christian?

Many reject that David was saved even though he speaks of his salvation in the present tense....they also deny that he had the crap whipped out of him (chastened) for the things he did that was contrary.....the Psalms also speak to disease in his old age....one of the biggest O.T. pictures of Jesus can be seen in the INNOCENT SON of David taking his place in death under the law for the murder of Uriah.....fast forward to the N.T.....thou SON OF DAVID have mercy on me cried the old man.....!

 

[gb9]

They have a strong flesh and a weak spirit because they are taught that that is one of thei options, instead of being told what God has provided for them. As soon as they get out of the watered down gospel, they will grow and learn to walk in the Spirit, because the Bible not only says it is possible, it expects it. Do you want verses

if you want to. I have read the Bible through about 20 times, I know what it says. and what it does not say.

 

[Macabeus]

A very good question indeed

You mean like building your theology around Romans 4:4 and never quoting anything else.

I ask questions to broaden your thought. Telling people who don’t even know what regeneration is only leads to arguments.

One guy said does it mean you get saved again.

You said something about putting a timetable on it, which was utterly incoherent.

It shows that most do not understand the finer points of soteriology. So I point them to the Bible with questions, so they will actually read it, not just gloss over it with their presuppositions goggles

 

[Macabeus]

Many reject that David was saved even though he speaks of his salvation in the present tense....they also deny that he had the crap whipped out of him (chastened) for the things he did that was contrary.....the Psalms also speak to disease in his old age....one of the biggest O.T. pictures of Jesus can be seen in the INNOCENT SON of David taking his place in death under the law for the murder of Uriah.....fast forward to the N.T.....thou SON OF DAVID have mercy on me cried the old man.....!

David did not have the fullness we have. And David repented, basically proving my point anyways.

 

[Macabeus]

if you want to. I have read the Bible through about 20 times, I know what it says. and what it does not say.

Then how did you think that I could put a time limit on regeneration? How could someone put a time limit on something that is instantaneous with faith. If you don’t know that, you don’t understand regeneration

Just like UG thought I said regeneration maintained by sin confession when I said fellowship maintained...

 

[gb9]

Then how did you think that I could put a time limit on regeneration? How could someone put a time limit on something that is instantaneous with faith. If you don’t know that, you don’t understand regeneration

Just like UG thought I said regeneration maintained by sin confession when I said fellowship maintained...

the issue is this- you think ( wrongly) that regeneration means one starts instantly bearing fruit ( and we know how the fruit thing went for you, empty apple buckets and all).

so, I will leave this thread, and you, with this-

when 2 people come to Christ, one can instantly show a massive transformation , one can struggle with breaking free of certain sins for years.

if both are true believers , both are saved, even though it does not look the same.

that is why lordship salvation is bunk.

gb9 out.

 

[dcontroversal]

the issue is this- you think ( wrongly) that regeneration means one starts instantly bearing fruit ( and we know how the fruit thing went for you, empty apple buckets and all).

so, I will leave this thread, and you, with this-

when 2 people come to Christ, one can instantly show a massive transformation , one can struggle with breaking free of certain sins for years.

if both are true believers , both are saved, even though it does not look the same.

that is why lordship salvation is bunk.

gb9 out.

Absolute truth right here....and even the one that does NOT WORK HIS FAITH IS CREDITED TO RIGHTEOUSNESS <--this is what they CANNOT GRASP!!

 

[Macabeus]

the issue is this- you think ( wrongly) that regeneration means one starts instantly bearing fruit ( and we know how the fruit thing went for you, empty apple buckets and all).

so, I will leave this thread, and you, with this-

when 2 people come to Christ, one can instantly show a massive transformation , one can struggle with breaking free of certain sins for years.

if both are true believers , both are saved, even though it does not look the same.

that is why lordship salvation is bunk.

gb9 out.

Lordship salvation doesn’t deny your post.

And if an apple tree taking years to bear fruit means the same for a believer, you must believe there is a 9 month gestation for a new bithh

And my argument before about fruit was it doesn’t NECESSARILY take years for a believer to bear fruit

But you and DC insisted on making an analogy walk on all fours.

If I interpret the wheat and the tares the same way you interpret the fruit tree analogy, there is only a few months, the ammount of time it takes wheat to grow, spanning the events of that parable. Go over to the parable, and handle it that way.

I can poke so many holes in your fruit argument, it’s comical

Thanks for posting. Good day now. 🖐

Please don’t make me go in depth on all the things wrong with it. My fingers will fall off from typing.