Did Jesus ever tell us that we no longer need to keep the law of Moses?
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awesome. i found this place first by doing something similar, tho a totally different subject. it turned out to have a wealth of knowledge within its forum-walls.
an argument from premise isn't a 'question' -- tho, tbh, Socratic method et al: asking questions can be 'teaching' too
perhaps my post just before this one gives you some insight to what i was thinking
an argument from premise isn't a 'question' -- tho, tbh, Socratic method et al: asking questions can be 'teaching' too
perhaps my post just before this one gives you some insight to what i was thinking
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I even gave you a post number where I answered your question to prove that I did.
besides, you should no issue repeating your belief on Sabbath keeping as part of being a Christ follower or not.
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Let me grant your take here for a moment. Is it your position that the Sabbath law is made void lawfully because of this exception? That's a very dangerous route, don't you think? An exception doesn't make a law void. Or else it becomes, a "loop-hole" so to speak.
What I mean by the tradition, what Jesus did was show them the exception on when it is okay to "work" on the Sabbath day. Their tradition removed these exceptions. And I used the example of a later passage of Jesus healing the man. Their traditions forbids this. Basically, what the law manifested in the flesh said was that it is perfectly fine to walk and glean on the Sabbath day. If it was explicitly contrary to the law, then the Jews' accusations against Jesus stands vindicated.
To suppose one is saved by works is nonsensical: the convicted murderer is presented to the judge, and pleads, "But your honor, look at all the people I did not murder," and the judge responds, "Very well. Your works has justified you." Just because you can fix a broken window doesn't undo the fact that the window was broken in the first place. The price for fixing the window remains. Even then, paying the price doesn't yield the window to be allowed to be broken again, over and over.
The Galatians thought it that by receiving circumcision they are saved, and therefore reasoned that they can go back to doing evil. Basically, they used circumcision to justify their evil. Any law can be used to justify evil - it still remains evil. One is justified by faith. In other words, faithfulness is lawfulness and faithlessness is lawlessness. A faithful woman doesn't commit adultery, but an unfaithful woman does.
Salvation was, is and will always be a free gift. You cannot work for salvation. This is true for all mankind in all ages. A just deity demands this.
Let me grant your interpretation of Paul here. Can you show me an example of how this was applied in the Old Testament? The Old Testament is rather explicit that it is a specific day even in punishment unto death. If none is found, then Paul teaching sin for the same reason I would teach sin if I can say, "There are seven women in a room, on is your wife (one is sanctified), but it doesn't matter with which one you have sex with." By claiming all days alike is to, at the same time, claiming the seventh day's sanctity is false.
Scriptures says God gave Israel the Sabbath. It doesn't say exclusively. It is made explicit in the fourth commandment itself that this is not true. Furthermore, the seventh day serves as a memorial of creation unto the Creator (Ex 20:8-11) as well as a sign of redemption (new creation) (Deut 5:13).
The Galatians thought it that by receiving circumcision they are saved, and therefore reasoned that they can go back to doing evil. Basically, they used circumcision to justify their evil. Any law can be used to justify evil - it still remains evil. One is justified by faith. In other words, faithfulness is lawfulness and faithlessness is lawlessness. A faithful woman doesn't commit adultery, but an unfaithful woman does.
Salvation was, is and will always be a free gift. You cannot work for salvation. This is true for all mankind in all ages. A just deity demands this.
Let me grant your interpretation of Paul here. Can you show me an example of how this was applied in the Old Testament? The Old Testament is rather explicit that it is a specific day even in punishment unto death. If none is found, then Paul teaching sin for the same reason I would teach sin if I can say, "There are seven women in a room, on is your wife (one is sanctified), but it doesn't matter with which one you have sex with." By claiming all days alike is to, at the same time, claiming the seventh day's sanctity is false.
Scriptures says God gave Israel the Sabbath. It doesn't say exclusively. It is made explicit in the fourth commandment itself that this is not true. Furthermore, the seventh day serves as a memorial of creation unto the Creator (Ex 20:8-11) as well as a sign of redemption (new creation) (Deut 5:13).
No, I don't mean that. I mean this:
Letter: "Thou shalt not murder."
Spirit: "Do not hate your brother in your heart."
Letter: "Do not commit adultery."
Spirit: "Do not look at a woman in lust for her."
Letter: "Do not eat pork."
Spirit: "Take care of your temple."
By keeping to the Spirit of the law, you will, automatically, keep the letter of the law. Or else, you're not keeping the law at all. As for loving God, Jesus was quoting Moses (Deut 5:6 & Lev 19:18). You can use that as an example as well.
Letter: "Regard all the law and the prophets."
Spirit: "Love God and love your neighbor."
Letter: "Thou shalt not murder."
Spirit: "Do not hate your brother in your heart."
Letter: "Do not commit adultery."
Spirit: "Do not look at a woman in lust for her."
Letter: "Do not eat pork."
Spirit: "Take care of your temple."
By keeping to the Spirit of the law, you will, automatically, keep the letter of the law. Or else, you're not keeping the law at all. As for loving God, Jesus was quoting Moses (Deut 5:6 & Lev 19:18). You can use that as an example as well.
Letter: "Regard all the law and the prophets."
Spirit: "Love God and love your neighbor."
Ok. I follow the law as you well know. I study the "law" because I like the first 5 books of the Bible, alot.
I also know I am not "bound" to or "by" those laws, except the ones Jesus repeated and made clear and found in the New Test, I would love to be able to say it is all out of the spirit of love, but I have some really strong flesh and periodically, really need to pray, but for the most don't have to think about them.
Also, we are told not to judge. and again not to in food or drink or Sabbath Day?? so I try not to.
But, the food laws you mentioned pork, for all that I learned of them, I do follow them. I do not know how "Kosher" I am but I do not eat any animals that were created to clean the earth. No pork, shellfish, catfish, no scavengers of any kind. Thank God for Oscar Meyer turkey bacon.
I do not believe it is a sin against God just your own body, though
I do not believe that when Jesus died on the cross that either "our bodies" or the "scavengers bodies" changed.
I understand, God let down the sheet 3 times with the "bad foods" but 1. He never ate and 2. it was about the gentiles coming to the door anyhow.
God created "meats" for us to eat He called them clean.
God created "meats" to clean the earth He called them unclean
clean, for us, to be received by us to eat.
un clean, not for us, not to be received.
so that when you read this, you read it as ok or not , I am just a not.
1 Timothy 4:3 Forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from meats which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth.
1 Timothy 4:4 For every creature of God is good and nothing to be refused if it be received with thanksgiving:
1 Timothy 4:5 For it is sanctified by the word of God and prayer.
But here is what I think. God created the earth, the animals, our flesh. He created animals that are healthy to eat and animals that are not healthy for us to eat. For me, this is such an easy way to just do it the way He created it to be done that maybe just maybe it might cover an area that doesn't come so natural for me.
Now i am thinking, I have said this before to you specifically. If so, this part was not meant for you.
But this part is, what are some of your experiences?
I also know I am not "bound" to or "by" those laws, except the ones Jesus repeated and made clear and found in the New Test, I would love to be able to say it is all out of the spirit of love, but I have some really strong flesh and periodically, really need to pray, but for the most don't have to think about them.
Also, we are told not to judge. and again not to in food or drink or Sabbath Day?? so I try not to.
But, the food laws you mentioned pork, for all that I learned of them, I do follow them. I do not know how "Kosher" I am but I do not eat any animals that were created to clean the earth. No pork, shellfish, catfish, no scavengers of any kind. Thank God for Oscar Meyer turkey bacon.
I do not believe it is a sin against God just your own body, though
I do not believe that when Jesus died on the cross that either "our bodies" or the "scavengers bodies" changed.
I understand, God let down the sheet 3 times with the "bad foods" but 1. He never ate and 2. it was about the gentiles coming to the door anyhow.
God created "meats" for us to eat He called them clean.
God created "meats" to clean the earth He called them unclean
clean, for us, to be received by us to eat.
un clean, not for us, not to be received.
so that when you read this, you read it as ok or not , I am just a not.
1 Timothy 4:3 Forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from meats which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth.
1 Timothy 4:4 For every creature of God is good and nothing to be refused if it be received with thanksgiving:
1 Timothy 4:5 For it is sanctified by the word of God and prayer.
But here is what I think. God created the earth, the animals, our flesh. He created animals that are healthy to eat and animals that are not healthy for us to eat. For me, this is such an easy way to just do it the way He created it to be done that maybe just maybe it might cover an area that doesn't come so natural for me.
Now i am thinking, I have said this before to you specifically. If so, this part was not meant for you.
But this part is, what are some of your experiences?
Isn't this a false dichotomy because Jesus is the Word of God manifested in the flesh[1]? This means that the Word of God is a Person.
Also, if you say Jesus plus nothing, do you mean "you don't need to repent, you don't need to pick up your cross and follow Him, you don't need to give up your life for Him, etc?"
[1]
Jn 1:1-3,14; cf. Is 8:20
Rom 10:6-8; cf. Deut 30:11-16
Also, if you say Jesus plus nothing, do you mean "you don't need to repent, you don't need to pick up your cross and follow Him, you don't need to give up your life for Him, etc?"
[1]
Jn 1:1-3,14; cf. Is 8:20
Rom 10:6-8; cf. Deut 30:11-16
