Did Jesus ever tell us that we no longer need to keep the law of Moses?

[RickStudies]

like your dodge on the Sabbath question?

I even gave you a post number where I answered your question to prove that I did.

 

[page-1]

awesome. i found this place first by doing something similar, tho a totally different subject. it turned out to have a wealth of knowledge within its forum-walls.

an argument from premise isn't a 'question' -- tho, tbh, Socratic method et al: asking questions can be 'teaching' too

perhaps my post just before this one gives you some insight to what i was thinking

Understood. I merely enjoy a good debate, and welcome contrary views to my own. My arguments aren't about teaching, but really to strengthen my own arguments; if that makes sense. I don't entertain the idea of teaching that doesn't seek to be taught. But, if one is welcome to learn from another if he or she so wishes.

 

[gb9]

I even gave you a post number where I answered your question to prove that I did.

in the post you keep referencing, you did not give a straight answer. you dodged.

besides, you should no issue repeating your belief on Sabbath keeping as part of being a Christ follower or not.

 

[RickStudies]

in the post you keep referencing, you did not give a straight answer. you dodged.

besides, you should no issue repeating your belief on Sabbath keeping as part of being a Christ follower or not.

I said it was a choice. I don`t know what you are talking about other then you falsly accused me of lying to you which is just stupid. Why would I lie to you about that? When I look at your posts I think to myself "amateur hour".

 

[gb9]

I`m not sure what you are asking. The Bible says the Sabbath begins at sundown so I assume you want to know about Sabbath keeping?
It`s not a sin to observe the Sabbath but it`s a choice.

Some observe the Sabbath and then go to church on Sunday. I think thats great if you can do it.

here is the post.

no answer to the " does a Christ follower have to keep the fri. twilight to sat. twilight Sabbath?"

 

[page-1]

this isn't about what His disciples were doing, but about what the priests do according to the law -- not outside of the law, but according to the commandments themselves -- and also about what David & his men did, how that it was clearly contrary to the law and the law would condemn them, without question, but they were innocent. again, the proscription against eating shewbread is not a 'tradition' added by men. it's a clear, explicit commandment in the law itself.

Let me grant your take here for a moment. Is it your position that the Sabbath law is made void lawfully because of this exception? That's a very dangerous route, don't you think? An exception doesn't make a law void. Or else it becomes, a "loop-hole" so to speak.

What I mean by the tradition, what Jesus did was show them the exception on when it is okay to "work" on the Sabbath day. Their tradition removed these exceptions. And I used the example of a later passage of Jesus healing the man. Their traditions forbids this. Basically, what the law manifested in the flesh said was that it is perfectly fine to walk and glean on the Sabbath day. If it was explicitly contrary to the law, then the Jews' accusations against Jesus stands vindicated.

if you use the 'quote' function i'll be alerted that you've responded to me. either hit 'reply' or highlight a part of a post and a 'reply' button appears, that puts what you're responding to in the box for you to make a new post with.

Thank you. I will do so.

 

[RickStudies]

here is the post.

no answer to the " does a Christ follower have to keep the fri. twilight to sat. twilight Sabbath?"

And? I said it`s a choice. You understand English I thought? You unhappy because I don`t oppose Sabbath keeping?

 

[gb9]

And? I said it`s a choice. You understand English I thought?

you said " it is not a sin to observe the Sabbath, but it is a choice"

I never said or implied it was a sin to observe the Sabbath.

And? I said it`s a choice. You understand English I thought? You unhappy because I don`t oppose Sabbath keeping?

And? I said it`s a choice. You understand English I thought? You unhappy because I don`t oppose Sabbath keeping?

And? I said it`s a choice. You understand English I thought? You unhappy because I don`t oppose Sabbath keeping?

and, I have no issue with any who choose to observe it.
my issue is with those who say we have to.

 

[RickStudies]

you said " it is not a sin to observe the Sabbath, but it is a choice"

I never said or implied it was a sin to observe the Sabbath.




and, I have no issue with any who choose to observe it.
my issue is with those who say we have to.

Then why do you keep bothering me?

 

[gb9]

Then why do you keep bothering me?

fair enough.

I will say nothing else on this issue.

 

[page-1]

on the sabbath topic, i do think that, similar to the circumcision argument Galatians, if one is keeping sabbaths under the premise that they are covenantally bound to as a legal term/requirement of receiving the 'free gift' of salvation through the gospel of Christ, then it can be just as evil and just as much 'making the cross of none effect' as accepting circumcision was in Galatia.

if i take any other view, i find i have to really pervert Colossians 2 to keep that view.

To suppose one is saved by works is nonsensical: the convicted murderer is presented to the judge, and pleads, "But your honor, look at all the people I did not murder," and the judge responds, "Very well. Your works has justified you." Just because you can fix a broken window doesn't undo the fact that the window was broken in the first place. The price for fixing the window remains. Even then, paying the price doesn't yield the window to be allowed to be broken again, over and over.

The Galatians thought it that by receiving circumcision they are saved, and therefore reasoned that they can go back to doing evil. Basically, they used circumcision to justify their evil. Any law can be used to justify evil - it still remains evil. One is justified by faith. In other words, faithfulness is lawfulness and faithlessness is lawlessness. A faithful woman doesn't commit adultery, but an unfaithful woman does.

Salvation was, is and will always be a free gift. You cannot work for salvation. This is true for all mankind in all ages. A just deity demands this.

and i also think that, if anyone, out of love for God, devote themselves to Him by physical observation of a day, then that is good. this seems to me to be the crux of what is written in Romans 14, that one man regards a day, and another doesn't, but both do so to the Lord, are the Lord's servants, should not be judged by and should not judge one another, for the Lord is who makes them stand

Let me grant your interpretation of Paul here. Can you show me an example of how this was applied in the Old Testament? The Old Testament is rather explicit that it is a specific day even in punishment unto death. If none is found, then Paul teaching sin for the same reason I would teach sin if I can say, "There are seven women in a room, on is your wife (one is sanctified), but it doesn't matter with which one you have sex with." By claiming all days alike is to, at the same time, claiming the seventh day's sanctity is false.

((vis-a-vis Exodus, Ezekiel, God gave Israel sabbaths explicitly as a sign that it is He who sanctifies them. it is God who justifies, who sanctifies, and who makes His servant stand)).

Scriptures says God gave Israel the Sabbath. It doesn't say exclusively. It is made explicit in the fourth commandment itself that this is not true. Furthermore, the seventh day serves as a memorial of creation unto the Creator (Ex 20:8-11) as well as a sign of redemption (new creation) (Deut 5:13).

 

[page-1]

If you mean keeping the spirit of the law out of love for God, then yes I say Amen.

If you mean keep the letter of the law, for example don't eat pork, then we would differ on that part.

No, I don't mean that. I mean this:
Letter: "Thou shalt not murder."
Spirit: "Do not hate your brother in your heart."

Letter: "Do not commit adultery."
Spirit: "Do not look at a woman in lust for her."

Letter: "Do not eat pork."
Spirit: "Take care of your temple."

By keeping to the Spirit of the law, you will, automatically, keep the letter of the law. Or else, you're not keeping the law at all. As for loving God, Jesus was quoting Moses (Deut 5:6 & Lev 19:18). You can use that as an example as well.

Letter: "Regard all the law and the prophets."
Spirit: "Love God and love your neighbor."

 

[DeighAnn]

If you mean keep the letter of the law, for example don't eat pork, then we would differ on that part.

Ok. I follow the law as you well know. I study the "law" because I like the first 5 books of the Bible, alot.

I also know I am not "bound" to or "by" those laws, except the ones Jesus repeated and made clear and found in the New Test, I would love to be able to say it is all out of the spirit of love, but I have some really strong flesh and periodically, really need to pray, but for the most don't have to think about them.

Also, we are told not to judge. and again not to in food or drink or Sabbath Day?? so I try not to.

But, the food laws you mentioned pork, for all that I learned of them, I do follow them. I do not know how "Kosher" I am but I do not eat any animals that were created to clean the earth. No pork, shellfish, catfish, no scavengers of any kind. Thank God for Oscar Meyer turkey bacon.

I do not believe it is a sin against God just your own body, though

I do not believe that when Jesus died on the cross that either "our bodies" or the "scavengers bodies" changed.

I understand, God let down the sheet 3 times with the "bad foods" but 1. He never ate and 2. it was about the gentiles coming to the door anyhow.

God created "meats" for us to eat He called them clean.
God created "meats" to clean the earth He called them unclean
clean, for us, to be received by us to eat.
un clean, not for us, not to be received.

so that when you read this, you read it as ok or not , I am just a not.

1 Timothy 4:3 Forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from meats which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth.
1 Timothy 4:4 For every creature of God is good and nothing to be refused if it be received with thanksgiving:
1 Timothy 4:5 For it is sanctified by the word of God and prayer.

But here is what I think. God created the earth, the animals, our flesh. He created animals that are healthy to eat and animals that are not healthy for us to eat. For me, this is such an easy way to just do it the way He created it to be done that maybe just maybe it might cover an area that doesn't come so natural for me.

Now i am thinking, I have said this before to you specifically. If so, this part was not meant for you.

But this part is, what are some of your experiences?

 

[SimpleGardner]

You are twisting my words. Jesus fulfilled the Law. He didn`t fulfill all the prophecies which is why there must be another age on this earth before "new earth".

(Luk 24:44 KJV) And he said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me.

 

[page-1]

I don't obey the law, I obey a Person.

Isn't this a false dichotomy because Jesus is the Word of God manifested in the flesh[1]? This means that the Word of God is a Person.

Also, if you say Jesus plus nothing, do you mean "you don't need to repent, you don't need to pick up your cross and follow Him, you don't need to give up your life for Him, etc?"

[1]
Jn 1:1-3,14; cf. Is 8:20
Rom 10:6-8; cf. Deut 30:11-16

 

[SimpleGardner]

No, I don't mean that. I mean this:
Letter: "Thou shalt not murder."
Spirit: "Do not hate your brother in your heart."

Letter: "Do not commit adultery."
Spirit: "Do not look at a woman in lust for her."

Letter: "Do not eat pork."
Spirit: "Take care of your temple."

By keeping to the Spirit of the law, you will, automatically, keep the letter of the law. Or else, you're not keeping the law at all. As for loving God, Jesus was quoting Moses (Deut 5:6 & Lev 19:18). You can use that as an example as well.

Letter: "Regard all the law and the prophets."
Spirit: "Love God and love your neighbor."

Welcome P1,

SG

 

[page-1]

Welcome P1,

SG

Thank you.

 

[SimpleGardner]

Thank you.

 

[RickStudies]

Isn't this a false dichotomy because Jesus is the Word of God manifested in the flesh[1]? This means that the Word of God is a Person.

Also, if you say Jesus plus nothing, do you mean "you don't need to repent, you don't need to pick up your cross and follow Him, you don't need to give up your life for Him, etc?"

[1]
Jn 1:1-3,14; cf. Is 8:20
Rom 10:6-8; cf. Deut 30:11-16

Simple mistake. He used the word obey so I give him benefit of doubt.

 

[RickStudies]

(Luk 24:44 KJV) And he said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me.

AND WHAT DOES THAT MEAN IN RELATION TO WHAT I SAID?