THE CALLING OUT OF THE BRIDE, to go to The Wedding of the Lamb

[JaumeJ]

Are we to teach there will be no fellowship with Jesus, Yeshua, in suffering in this age?

As far as I understand we are to be read to even die in following Jesus in this age so why are so may worried that we be taken up before the last Trup?

Shall we also teach that we are to be wealthy or that the world belongs to us? That is foolhearty for the world and all it contains, including wealth of individualsm, is to burn before the new living state of the family in Christ.

Do not look for excusees to teach against or for suffering. If it is our Father's will for you or for me, He will assure our being prepared. All glory to God on high, amen.

 

[Absolutely]

can you share a few of these verses? would be a first. actually could anyone share any pre-trib rapture verses? i (and most in church history) find the number of 0.


unlike all the pretrib books right? impartial and not looking for pretrib rapture on every corner possible since its not there plainly so its all about deducing and bouncing all over the bible.
the hypocrisy of the pretrib preachers is making me ill almost. they quote isaiah 26:10 as proof for pretrib rapture. desperately clinging to any and everything. then when you quote something they say "thats old testament" or "thats for the jews. thats talking to israel". unlike isaiah 26:10 right?

Well the debate in not inside the respective camps,but rather between them.
His book,of course works for him.
My critique is his partial picture.
I could also,should i desire.present his conclusions as they are but a scarce few. Plus my heart would not be in it since it would also ne skewed to leaving out the core of heaven.
Pretending the pretrib verses are not there or just leaving them out is a pretty silly study.

 

[Melach]

Well the debate in not inside the respective camps,but rather between them.
His book,of course works for him.
My critique is his partial picture.
I could also,should i desire.present his conclusions as they are but a scarce few. Plus my heart would not be in it since it would also ne skewed to leaving out the core of heaven.
Pretending the pretrib verses are not there or just leaving them out is a pretty silly study.

i asked for even one pre-trib verse and none was given. we know why

 

[Ahwatukee]

I wish that the secret rapture theory should just be raptured away seriously

Good day Elect,

It is not a secret rapture nor a theory, but a sudden event which will take place in a brief moment. The word to describe the amount of time it will take all living believers to be changed is "atomos" which means "not divide," i.e. to short of a time period to divide. Jesus used the term "thief in the night" to describe His sudden appearing to remove His bride to take her back to the Father's house. A thief in the night would then not want to be detected and would enter a home and quickly take what he wants and leave just as quickly. So, instead of a "secret rapture" it will be a sudden event, like a thief in the night.

 

[Ahwatukee]

hOs Adv "AS" is the Greek. There was no "a" in that verse. The holy city is decked out like or as a Jewish bride would be astounding to the wedding party. She typically wore most if not all the gold and jewels her family had collected toward her wedding.

Have you noticed the other apostles didn't mention any of the doctrine of the Church being a Bride, or Lamb's wife, or anything like that? For a tradition as popular as it is I would expect several mentions. But we have John describing the city of mansions and streets of gold Jesus promised. His use of the traditional Jewish wedding was very popular among people that cherished the wedding event, so they could comprehend at least some of those parables.

Jesus described our future habitation as a place, not a being. John 14:1-4 (KJV)
[SUP]1 [/SUP] Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me.
[SUP]2 [/SUP] In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.
[SUP]3 [/SUP] And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.
[SUP]4 [/SUP] And whither I go ye know, and the way ye know.

There is no declaration from Jesus, either, of the Church or any other group being His bride or wife.

Greetings Swordsman,

"So John’s disciples came to him and said, “Look, Rabbi, the One who was with you beyond the Jordan, the One you testified about—He is baptizing, and everyone is going to Him.”

John replied, “A man can receive only what is given him from heaven. You yourselves can testify that I said, ‘I am not the Christ, but am sent ahead of Him.’ The bride belongs to the bridegroom.

Everyone is going to Him = The bride

Jesus = The Bridegroom

"I am jealous for you with a godly jealousy. For I promised you to one husband, to present you as a pure virgin to Christ."

In Revelation 19:6-8 the church is seen in heaven as the bride who is receiving her fine linen, white and clean. Then in verse 14 the bride wearing the same fine linen is seen following the Lord out of heaven and riding on white horses.

The church is indeed the bride

 

[Anidod]

2. The wedding proposal was never verbal. The man seeking a Bride is invited to a family sit down supper, after making contract with the father. During the course of the meal the man would pour a cup of wine and passed it to his prospective Bride. If she drank from the cup she was accepting the proposal, and if she set it down without drinking, she was refusing the proposal. Jesus poured the cup and passed it to the Disciples the foundation of the Church. The Disciples drank from the betrothal cup accepting Jesus Christ as our Bridegroom. Just as in any Jewish Wedding Proposal, the Couple is known as Bride and Bridegroom throughout the Betrothal Period. ( Mat. 9:15 )

1 Corinthians 11:25 (NCV)
[SUP]25 [/SUP]In the same way, after they ate, Jesus took the cup. He said, “This cup is the new agreement that is sealed with the blood of my death. When you drink this, do it to remember me.“

So I copied that from the second post of this thread, I have not read any post after the second one.

I have never heard any teaching or understanding, like what was posted in the original post. I was wondering, if that means, that everytime we do communion we are accepting the proposal and if we don't participate we are rejecting it? Also, does that mean that based on this understanding children should be allowed to participate? Ive always been against them participating because I was under the impression, that they are too young to understand, but I guess im an adult and I don't understand either

I don't know if this was brought up in any post after the second or if I should have started a new thread hmmm .

 

[Ahwatukee]

I've never seen MacArthur's teaching on this, and it doesn't, then, sound the same, as I saw a breakdown of the actual timeframes since Christ, with a treatise on the characteristics of the historical church in each time, which all fit remarkably well our Lord Jesus prophesying the progression of the entire Church Age. I've actually never thought of our day and time in terms of each church fitting our times, beyond the teachings to each church befitting admonitions to all Christians. So, I can't really comment on the version you're referring to. In any case, aspects of Philadelphia and Loadicea can only fit the latter times, with the tribulation pending.

Hello JesusIsAll,

I have always believed the same as VCO in that, every type of church mentioned has existed up to this day. Regardless of what promises were made to each church and to individual believers, those promises are to all who overcome throughout the entire church period, just as the rebukes can also be applied to those guilty of the same. For example, I'm sure that there are plenty of people throughout the entire church period who have been and are guilty of leaving their first love, which was the Lord's rebuke to Ephesus. The eating of foods sacrificed to idols and committing sexual immorality is mentioned three times to different churches. Those eating foods sacrificed to idols would not apply to the church today, but committing sexual immorality certainly would. And we know that this is something that has been a problem throughout the entire church period.

So, I don't believe as some do, that each letter represents a progressive time period with the Laodicean church being the current or last church, but that each type of church has existed throughout the entire church period to this present day.

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

the hypocrisy of the pretrib preachers is making me ill almost. they quote isaiah 26:10 as proof for pretrib rapture. desperately clinging to any and everything. then when you quote something they say "thats old testament" or "thats for the jews. thats talking to israel". unlike isaiah 26:10 right?

As a pre-tribber (myself), I'm continually pointing out the Isaiah 26:16-21 passage to be referring to Israel (within the trib years [FOLLOWING our Rapture]), NOT to our Rapture (are you speaking of verse 20, I assume?? even if you mean v.10 as you say, I've continually pointed out the context as pertaining to Israel, and NOT our Rapture). Have you seen my [constant] posts regarding this?




[note: sometimes I only provide the references (not spelling out the verses/passages), especially if there's a whole LIST of them, but I expect the reader who's sincerely interested in what my points actually are, on the subject, will examine them thoroughly, so as to rebut them intelligibly/cogently, if they so desire and think they have sound reason to do so. ]

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

^ EDIT to add: here was my most recent one (on Sunday 9/1):

https://christianchat.com/threads/the-tribulation-and-the-church-when.186736/post-4013389

[a listing of parallel (time-wise) passages (speaking of Israel's 'FUTURE')--see Isa26:16-21 there amidst the listing]


(but it's in a ton of my previous posts also [I realize few ppl will look them up, examine them, and connect them to the point actually being made (by me)... but this is the purpose and goal of my posting them ])

 

[dcontroversal]

i asked for even one pre-trib verse and none was given. we know why

Exactly...there are none......but there are many that say AFTER the tribulation of those days or....that day shall NOT come UNTIL X,Y, Z happens.....but hey.....it sounds good.....going to be a plethora of believers walk away from the truth when it does not happen!

 

[dcontroversal]

Another thing overlooked....the Gentiles are called the guests at the wedding in the parable....but hey......let's just peddle regurgitated Catholic dogma......

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

^ I'm always pointing out the SEQUENCE issues in Matthew 22:7 [70ad events] and the Matt22:8 ["THEN SAITH HE to his servants" that necessarily takes place AFTER the 70ad events... which I'm saying correlates with the LATER 95ad writing of the Revelation... (Rev1:1/7:3/1:19c/4:1 thing, about the "IN QUICKNESS [NOUN]" time period, not saying what will unfold and transpire over the course of some 2000 yrs, nor "immediately/quickly/soon [which are ADVERBS instead]").

It will be the [FUTURE (trib yrs)] believing remnant of Jews/Israel who will be DOING the "INVITING" TO their "promised and prophesied EARTHLY Millennial Kingdom" (aka "the wedding FEAST/SUPPER") so that the "GUESTS [PLURAL]" are the Gentiles who will be accepting said "invitation," as INVITED GUESTS [Matt24:14(26:13); Matt22:8-14; Rev19:9 (distinct from v.7); Rev7:9,14-17; Matt25:31-34; Matt13:24,30,39,40,49-50, etc etc].

The GUESTS [PLURAL] are NOT the BRIDE/WIFE [SINGULAR], etc. (the wedding FEAST/SUPPER is the EARTHLY MK--so, WE [the Church which is His body] are not sending forth that msg "in this present age [singular]"... That is their role at/during that future time period [the trib yrs; FOLLOWING our Rapture])

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

WE (the Church which is His body, "in this present age [singular]") are asking ppl to be a part of "the MARRIAGE" itself

 

[VCO]

Are we to teach there will be no fellowship with Jesus, Yeshua, in suffering in this age?

As far as I understand we are to be read to even die in following Jesus in this age so why are so may worried that we be taken up before the last Trup?

Shall we also teach that we are to be wealthy or that the world belongs to us? That is foolhearty for the world and all it contains, including wealth of individualsm, is to burn before the new living state of the family in Christ.

Do not look for excusees to teach against or for suffering. If it is our Father's will for you or for me, He will assure our being prepared. All glory to God on high, amen.

I am not sure what you are saying, but We proclaim the LORD, is COMING AGAIN. Perhaps sooner than most think. AND REFLECT HIS LOVE in meeting the NEEDS OF OTHERS.

 

[VCO]

^ I'm always pointing out the SEQUENCE issues in Matthew 22:7 [70ad events] and the Matt22:8 ["THEN SAITH HE to his servants" that necessarily takes place AFTER the 70ad events... which I'm saying correlates with the LATER 95ad writing of the Revelation... (Rev1:1/7:3/1:19c/4:1 thing, about the "IN QUICKNESS [NOUN]" time period, not saying what will unfold and transpire over the course of some 2000 yrs, nor "immediately/quickly/soon [which are ADVERBS instead]").

It will be the [FUTURE (trib yrs)] believing remnant of Jews/Israel who will be DOING the "INVITING" TO their "promised and prophesied EARTHLY Millennial Kingdom" (aka "the wedding FEAST/SUPPER") so that the "GUESTS [PLURAL]" are the Gentiles who will be accepting said "invitation," as INVITED GUESTS [Matt24:14(26:13); Matt22:8-14; Rev19:9 (distinct from v.7); Rev7:9,14-17; Matt25:31-34; Matt13:24,30,39,40,49-50, etc etc].

The GUESTS [PLURAL] are NOT the BRIDE/WIFE [SINGULAR], etc. (the wedding FEAST/SUPPER is the EARTHLY MK--so, WE [the Church which is His body] are not sending forth that msg "in this present age [singular]"... That is their role at/during that future time period [the trib yrs; FOLLOWING our Rapture])

YES, I do believe that GOD is not finished, with ISRAEL. In fact I believe the final week of Years, will be the 70th Week of Daniel.

 

[VCO]

Another thing overlooked....the Gentiles are called the guests at the wedding in the parable....but hey......let's just peddle regurgitated Catholic dogma......

I personally believe that Christ will fulfill in choosing HIS BRIDE and marrying his BRIDE, the entire Wedding Traditions of ISRAEL, from 2000 years ago, TO THE LETTER. So unless I am mistaken, the Catholic Church never did teach that. I also Believe the Church that CHRIST has BUILT, is the sum total of Old Testament Saints, New Testaments, and Tribulation Saints, are ALL PART OF HIS BRIDE.

 

[dcontroversal]

I personally believe that Christ will fulfill in choosing HIS BRIDE and marrying his BRIDE, the entire Wedding Traditions of ISRAEL, from 2000 years ago, TO THE LETTER. So unless I am mistaken, the Catholic Church never did teach that. I also Believe the Church that CHRIST has BUILT, is the sum total of Old Testament Saints, New Testaments, and Tribulation Saints, are ALL PART OF HIS BRIDE.

My only problem with the modern version of the bride is three fold

a. The Gentiles are called GUESTS at the wedding in the parables

b. The definite ARTICLE "THE" applied to NEW Jerusalem and it being called THE BRIDE coming down out of heaven ADORNED for HER HUSBAND

c. The fact that MANY go to seed and equate the LOVE Christ has for his CHURCH AS GROOM does for A BRIDE <---IT does NOT say SHE is the BRIDE, The comparison is LOVE not marriage

There are numerous things that were crammed down my throat growing up in church that I can no longer support after studying the word of GOD and letting it speak........

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

^ dcon, (asking for clarification ), under your point "b," are you referring to the definite article being "the bride" in Rev21:2 [ https://biblehub.com/text/revelation/21-2.htm ]? or are you referring to elsewhere?
Thanks.

 

[VCO]

Hello JesusIsAll,

I have always believed the same as VCO in that, every type of church mentioned has existed up to this day. Regardless of what promises were made to each church and to individual believers, those promises are to all who overcome throughout the entire church period, just as the rebukes can also be applied to those guilty of the same. For example, I'm sure that there are plenty of people throughout the entire church period who have been and are guilty of leaving their first love, which was the Lord's rebuke to Ephesus. The eating of foods sacrificed to idols and committing sexual immorality is mentioned three times to different churches. Those eating foods sacrificed to idols would not apply to the church today, but committing sexual immorality certainly would. And we know that this is something that has been a problem throughout the entire church period.

So, I don't believe as some do, that each letter represents a progressive time period with the Laodicean church being the current or last church, but that each type of church has existed throughout the entire church period to this present day.

WELCOME, brother Ahwatukee. Long time no see. I had four strokes the first week of January. One was bad enough to put me in the hospital for three days. Then they Put me on Xaelto, a blood thinner, and it seems to be the right CHOICE. Doing GOOD ever since.

I also believe the Old Testament Saints will be part of the BRIDE TOO. Where I get that from:

John 10:14-16 (HCSB)
14 “I am the good shepherd. I know My own sheep, and they know Me,
15 as the Father knows Me, and I know the Father. I lay down My life for the sheep.
16 But I have other sheep that are not of this fold; I must bring them also, and they will listen to My voice. Then there will be one flock, one shepherd.


We are the other sheep AND after they are Complete, Then there will be one shepherd at the RAPTURE.

The Fold he is talking to is the LAST OF THE OLD TESTAMENT SAINTS, because the Birthday of the CHURCH is not until Pentecost.

Now, the word Church was not in the BIBLE, until 200 - 300 A.D.

What did JESUS all the New Testament Saints? We find it in the YLT.

Matthew 16:18 (YLT)
18 `And I also say to thee, that thou art a rock, and upon this rock I will build my assembly, and gates of Hades shall not prevail against it;

That is the same thing HE called the Old Testament Saints who had the Faith of Abraham.

Hence, the O.T. Saints, the N.T. Saints, and the Tribulation Saints, are all part of the Bride of Christ.

 

[Grace911]

I have studied about the Bride of Christ. It appears that there was an undivided Kingdom under David and Solomon. Then after Solomon the kingdom divided, The House of Judah and The House of Israel. God ended up divorcing the House of Israel. They were first taken into captivity by Assyria in 721 BC and then later scattered throughout the earth. Because they never repented and returned to God, as the House of Judah did after their 70 years in Babylonian captivity, they multiplied and filled the earth and forgot where they came from and who their God was. Because God divorced The House of Israel for their adultress lifestyle, ie serving other gods, God stated in His own Law, Deut. 24:1-4, that He could never remarry them. The only recourse was for God to die, resurrect and then take them to be His Bride. Sound familiar? Jesus, who was The WORD come alive, willfully martyred Himself so that He could die and resurrect and marry those God had divorced. The Gentiles are mostly the lost sheep, the ten tribes of Israel, and Jesus has come to bring the Kingdom back to the undivided Kingdom. Most Christians don't read the stories in the Torah or the Prophets or the Writings (we call it the Old Testament) because they think it does not pertain to them.

Released from the Law
Rom 7:1 Know ye not, brethren, (for I speak to them that know the law,) how that the law hath dominion over a man as long as he liveth?
Rom 7:2 For the woman which hath an husband is bound by the law to her husband so long as he liveth; but if the husband be dead, she is loosed from the law of her husband.
Rom 7:3 So then if, while her husband liveth, she be married to another man, she shall be called an adulteress: but if her husband be dead, she is free from that law; so that she is no adulteress, though she be married to another man.
Rom 7:4 Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.

What LAW DO THEY KNOW?
Laws Concerning Divorce
Deu 24:1 When a man hath taken a wife, and married her, and it come to pass that she find no favour in his eyes, because he hath found some uncleanness in her: then let him write her a bill of divorcement, and give it in her hand, and send her out of his house.
Deu 24:2 And when she is departed out of his house, she may go and be another man's wife.
Deu 24:3 And if the latter husband hate her, and write her a bill of divorcement, and giveth it in her hand, and sendeth her out of his house; or if the latter husband die, which took her to be his wife;
Deu 24:4 Her former husband, which sent her away, may not take her again to be his wife, after that she is defiled; for that is abomination before the LORD: and thou shalt not cause the land to sin, which the LORD thy God giveth thee for an inheritance.

WAS JEREMIAH PERPLEXED HOW GOD COULD REMARRY THE HOUSE OF ISRAEL SINCE HIS OWN LAW FORBID TAKING HER BACK?
Jer 3:1 They say, If a man put away his wife, and she go from him, and become another man's, shall he return unto her again? shall not that land be greatly polluted? but thou hast played the harlot with many lovers; yet return again to me, saith the LORD.

Jesus came to be Immanuel "God with us" and he was sinless and He died so that the NEW COVENANT could be made with all the people and nations of the whole earth.

I believe we are to be adopted or grafted in to the Commonwealth of Israel. This is our calling, to lay down our lives with Christ and to raise up a new life, that has been washed and made ready for the Bridegroom for when He comes back from His Father's house to collect His Bride.