Why I now believe that salvation can be lost.
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The command is not burdensome. The command is to love one another - how hard is it for you to show love to those around you?!
1 John 5:1Everyone who believes that Jesus is the Christ is born of God, and everyone who loves the Father also loves the one born of Him. 2By this we know that we love the children of God: when we love God and keep His commandments. 3For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments. And His commandments are not burdensome, 4because everyone born of God overcomes the world. And this is the victory that has overcome the world: our faith.
2 John 1:6
And this is love, that we walk according to His commandments. This is the very commandment you have heard from the beginning, that you must walk in love.
1 John 5:1Everyone who believes that Jesus is the Christ is born of God, and everyone who loves the Father also loves the one born of Him. 2By this we know that we love the children of God: when we love God and keep His commandments. 3For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments. And His commandments are not burdensome, 4because everyone born of God overcomes the world. And this is the victory that has overcome the world: our faith.
2 John 1:6
And this is love, that we walk according to His commandments. This is the very commandment you have heard from the beginning, that you must walk in love.
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Of COURSE we are to love one another. The verses you post, and many others, are DESCRIPTIVE of what a Child of God should do. They do not have power to save.
But once again, you are relying on YOUR love, YOUR obedience to stay saved. I am relying on Jesus' love, Jesus' obedience even unto death on a cross to be and stay saved.
Also, how many times have you FAILED to love your neighbor as yourself? Jesus NEVER fails. He said HE was the author and finisher of our faith. Will Jesus fail in that?
But once again, you are relying on YOUR love, YOUR obedience to stay saved. I am relying on Jesus' love, Jesus' obedience even unto death on a cross to be and stay saved.
Also, how many times have you FAILED to love your neighbor as yourself? Jesus NEVER fails. He said HE was the author and finisher of our faith. Will Jesus fail in that?
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I believe in weird things.
When it is said sin came to the world through one man, it doesn't mean only mankind but world here means the universe including stars and stones and all the elements. Likewise, when Jesus says He came to save the world, it means everything and not only mankind.
Rom 8:
18I consider that our present sufferings are not comparable to the glory that will be revealed in us. 19The creation waits in eager expectation for the revelation of the sons of God. 20For the creation was subjected to futility, not by its own will, but because of the One who subjected it, in hope 21that the creation itself will be set free from its bondage to decay and brought into the glorious freedom of the children of God.
22We know that the whole creation has been groaning together in the pains of childbirth until the present time. 23Not only that, but we ourselves, who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, groan inwardly as we wait eagerly for our adoption as sons, the redemption of our bodies.
When it is said sin came to the world through one man, it doesn't mean only mankind but world here means the universe including stars and stones and all the elements. Likewise, when Jesus says He came to save the world, it means everything and not only mankind.
Rom 8:
18I consider that our present sufferings are not comparable to the glory that will be revealed in us. 19The creation waits in eager expectation for the revelation of the sons of God. 20For the creation was subjected to futility, not by its own will, but because of the One who subjected it, in hope 21that the creation itself will be set free from its bondage to decay and brought into the glorious freedom of the children of God.
22We know that the whole creation has been groaning together in the pains of childbirth until the present time. 23Not only that, but we ourselves, who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, groan inwardly as we wait eagerly for our adoption as sons, the redemption of our bodies.
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Nope.
It is not descriptive of what God's children should do, it is a command from the beginning. The word of God is a command. By God's command, everything was created. By disobedience, sin came and therefore by obedience, righteousness also comes.
It is by loving one another (obeying) that we remain/abide in Christ's love (atonement), if we don't, we are lost forever:
John 15: 9As the Father has loved Me, so have I loved you. Remain in My love. 10If you keep My commandments, you will remain in My love, just as I have kept My Father’s commandments and remain in His love.
The command is not burdensome; means you have no excuse of saying you can't love your neighbor as yourself.
It is not descriptive of what God's children should do, it is a command from the beginning. The word of God is a command. By God's command, everything was created. By disobedience, sin came and therefore by obedience, righteousness also comes.
It is by loving one another (obeying) that we remain/abide in Christ's love (atonement), if we don't, we are lost forever:
John 15: 9As the Father has loved Me, so have I loved you. Remain in My love. 10If you keep My commandments, you will remain in My love, just as I have kept My Father’s commandments and remain in His love.
The command is not burdensome; means you have no excuse of saying you can't love your neighbor as yourself.
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In the spiritual, salvation is creation once again. Just like God separated light from darkness in the beginning and called it day, He is once again separating you from darkness and calling you children of the day. Creation was a command to man then (in the beginning), salvation is also a command today.
I don't expect you to understand but:
2 Cor 4:4The god of this age has blinded the minds of unbelievers so they cannot see the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God. 5For we do not proclaim ourselves, but Jesus Christ as Lord, and ourselves as your servants for Jesus’ sake. 6For God, who said, “Let light shine out of darkness,”a made His light shine in our hearts to give us the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ.
I don't expect you to understand but:
2 Cor 4:4The god of this age has blinded the minds of unbelievers so they cannot see the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God. 5For we do not proclaim ourselves, but Jesus Christ as Lord, and ourselves as your servants for Jesus’ sake. 6For God, who said, “Let light shine out of darkness,”a made His light shine in our hearts to give us the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ.
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Your point being?
If a Christian stumbles in the flesh from day to day yes we can daily repent and confess and seek the mercy of our God.
His blood cleanses us and covers our transgressions.
BUT believers stop believing and stop walking in both faith and obedience.
People turn their backs on Jesus as their Lord and Saviour and become worldly.
They are in grave danger of losing (not valuing) the hope of their salvation.
It matters not how faithful and true God is, it matters how faithful disciples are.
If a Christian stumbles in the flesh from day to day yes we can daily repent and confess and seek the mercy of our God.
His blood cleanses us and covers our transgressions.
BUT believers stop believing and stop walking in both faith and obedience.
People turn their backs on Jesus as their Lord and Saviour and become worldly.
They are in grave danger of losing (not valuing) the hope of their salvation.
It matters not how faithful and true God is, it matters how faithful disciples are.
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Again, this is not an answer.
Of course God's children have been given a NEW heart with a NEW nature to love. But if you are relying on YOU loving others to remain saved, instead of relying on JESUS' love through HIS obedience to the Father, by dying on a cross, and His resurrection from the dead, then you must NEVER fail to love your neighbor.
Have you NEVER failed to love your neighbor as yourself? Remembering that JESUS defines that love on the sermon on the Mount.
If you have ever looked upon a woman with lust, that is not loving her.
If you have ever been angry with a brother, you have murdered him in your heart. That is not loving him.
RIGHT NOW there are untold numbers of homeless that you can be helping by at least sharing your home with them, if not selling your possessions to aid them and of course millions around the world. if you haven't ALWAYS done this that is not loving them.
My point is you have NOT ALWAYS loved your neighbor as yourself. You have simply switched the word "works" with "love". And then define what love is on your terms, not God's.
God demands perfect love, as HE defines it. And ONLY Jesus has fulfilled that perfect love. EVEN to the point of death.
You don't see that by claiming you loving others is what keeps you saved is stealing Glory from Christ?
Having said all that, we SHOULD be examining ourselves to see if we have hatred in our heart for people, and we SHOULD be loving people in ALL manner of ways. And if we are not doing those things, it IS appropriate to question if we have really believed, received, and been born again.
It is only when we believe those actions are what save us, or keep us saved that we alter the Gospel unto Salvation with a false gospel.
Of course God's children have been given a NEW heart with a NEW nature to love. But if you are relying on YOU loving others to remain saved, instead of relying on JESUS' love through HIS obedience to the Father, by dying on a cross, and His resurrection from the dead, then you must NEVER fail to love your neighbor.
Have you NEVER failed to love your neighbor as yourself? Remembering that JESUS defines that love on the sermon on the Mount.
If you have ever looked upon a woman with lust, that is not loving her.
If you have ever been angry with a brother, you have murdered him in your heart. That is not loving him.
RIGHT NOW there are untold numbers of homeless that you can be helping by at least sharing your home with them, if not selling your possessions to aid them and of course millions around the world. if you haven't ALWAYS done this that is not loving them.
My point is you have NOT ALWAYS loved your neighbor as yourself. You have simply switched the word "works" with "love". And then define what love is on your terms, not God's.
God demands perfect love, as HE defines it. And ONLY Jesus has fulfilled that perfect love. EVEN to the point of death.
You don't see that by claiming you loving others is what keeps you saved is stealing Glory from Christ?
Having said all that, we SHOULD be examining ourselves to see if we have hatred in our heart for people, and we SHOULD be loving people in ALL manner of ways. And if we are not doing those things, it IS appropriate to question if we have really believed, received, and been born again.
It is only when we believe those actions are what save us, or keep us saved that we alter the Gospel unto Salvation with a false gospel.
My answer is just fine only that you don't like it. Love is explained in different ways; I can say i don't hate and i can also say i'm humble because loving others as self is a call to humility. Only the meek inherit the kingdom, remember?
Love is not about sharing wealth but understanding and fulfilling genuine needs from our own abundance, whether emotionally or materially. If a homeless man needs my house and i give them, that's called stupidity, it is not love. Love cares but it is not stupid. If you are going to share material things, you share from your abundance - something that you cheerfully give, not give and frown or give and start suffering.
Again, give from your abundance; do not give and grieve others. For example; if i take my sons bike and give my neighbors child without providing my son another bike, i'll be causing grieve on my son. This is not love either.
ALL manner of sin is on the basis of hate; sexual sins, gluttony, envy, murder, disobedience, idolatry, homosexuality. It is either hate for God or hate for neighbor, and the one who loves fulfills the law (all requirement).
Love is not about sharing wealth but understanding and fulfilling genuine needs from our own abundance, whether emotionally or materially. If a homeless man needs my house and i give them, that's called stupidity, it is not love. Love cares but it is not stupid. If you are going to share material things, you share from your abundance - something that you cheerfully give, not give and frown or give and start suffering.
Again, give from your abundance; do not give and grieve others. For example; if i take my sons bike and give my neighbors child without providing my son another bike, i'll be causing grieve on my son. This is not love either.
ALL manner of sin is on the basis of hate; sexual sins, gluttony, envy, murder, disobedience, idolatry, homosexuality. It is either hate for God or hate for neighbor, and the one who loves fulfills the law (all requirement).
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Ah. So YOU get to define what love is. I did not at first realize that you were the same person that does not believe in the Trinity.
Incorrect doctrine in one area usually spills over to other areas. I see now that what you are really advocating is a sinless perfection doctrine. You say sin is hate for either God or neighbor. You also say that the author and perfector of your faith, JESUS, can fail in His promise, and that you can lose what He said He would perfect.
DO YOU STILL SIN? If so, doesn't that mean by your standard that you lost your Salvation? Or do you lose it, get it back, lose it again, and so on? Or do you NEVER sin anymore?
It's a MUCH easier yoke to bear to simply trust in what Jesus has done for you, rather than trust in YOUR performance. I wish you could see that.
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We have until physical death to come to CHRIST and there Is only one way to come to CHRIST and that would be In true repentance
IMO this scripture Is not talking about staying saved after you have been born aGain of Incorruptible seed but It means If you have received salvation you now abide In CHRIST.
You are really stack in the physical (deeds) and you are looking at things physically. That's why you are asking if i still sin or if i never sin anymore. Let's dwell in the spiritual side:
What is sin? what do i have to do to be a sinner?
The answer is nothing. I just have to be born in this world and as long as i'm Adam's descendant, i'm already a sinner based on what Adam did (not what i do). Why are you then asking me if i still sin? I'm not Adam.
Salvation is being born again. Again, what do i have to do to be justified and reconciled with God?
The answer is nothing. Christ already paid the price and reconciled me to God before i was born.
Now that i now what Christ did for me, i only abide by His love.
Rom 5:18Consequently, just as one trespass resulted in condemnation for all people, so also one righteous act resulted in justification and life for all people. 19For just as through the disobedience of the one man the many were made sinners, so also through the obedience of the one man the many will be made righteous.
I also wish you could see this; that trusting in Christ/ believing in Christ/ having faith in Christ is not the thing you have been taught, it is simply loving one another. The one who loves has fulfilled all the requirements.
Love beareth all things, it believes, it hopes, it perseveres. Every other thing should be in love and not apart from love.
What is sin? what do i have to do to be a sinner?
The answer is nothing. I just have to be born in this world and as long as i'm Adam's descendant, i'm already a sinner based on what Adam did (not what i do). Why are you then asking me if i still sin? I'm not Adam.
Salvation is being born again. Again, what do i have to do to be justified and reconciled with God?
The answer is nothing. Christ already paid the price and reconciled me to God before i was born.
Now that i now what Christ did for me, i only abide by His love.
Rom 5:18Consequently, just as one trespass resulted in condemnation for all people, so also one righteous act resulted in justification and life for all people. 19For just as through the disobedience of the one man the many were made sinners, so also through the obedience of the one man the many will be made righteous.
I also wish you could see this; that trusting in Christ/ believing in Christ/ having faith in Christ is not the thing you have been taught, it is simply loving one another. The one who loves has fulfilled all the requirements.
Love beareth all things, it believes, it hopes, it perseveres. Every other thing should be in love and not apart from love.
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