The Tribulation and the Church, WHEN?

[azamzimtoti]

Rom 9:21 Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?
Rom 9:22 What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:
Rom 9:23 And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory,
Rom 9:24 Even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?

One lump (flesh descendants of Israel) two components.

1. Vessels of Honor - Jews that are the children of the promise.
2. Vessels of Dishonor - Jews that ARE NOT the children of the promise.

Rom 9:25 As he saith also in Osee, I will call them my people, which were not my people; and her beloved, which was not beloved.
Rom 9:26 And it shall come to pass, that in the place where it was said unto them, Ye are not my people; there shall they be called the children of the living God.

God calls the Gentiles his people and calls Israel beloved again.... The question is WHEN. Hosea 1:11 tells us exactly WHEN this happened.

Hos 1:11 Then shall the children of Judah and the children of Israel be gathered together, and appoint themselves one head, and they shall come up out of the land: for great shall be the day of Jezreel.

It happened when the children of Judah and the children of Israel were gathered together UNDER ONE HEAD. The first coming of Christ.

Also, I just noticed that Gomer's child Jezreel is a picture of Christ.... Great shall be the DAY OF JEZREEL!

Hosea is right on the money K16, we also see that Paul is quoting Ezekiel in Corinthians 2 Cor 6:16 and the one stick motif:

(Ezek 37:16 Moreover, thou son of man, take thee one stick, and write upon it, For Judah, and for the children of Israel his companions: then take another stick, and write upon it, For Joseph, the stick of Ephraim, and for all the house of Israel his companions)

(Ezek 37:17 And join them one to another into one stick; and they shall become one in thine hand.)

This one sticky business is related by Paul pointing to the further fulfillment, if Ezek 37:26-27 is fulfilled then so is 37:16-17.

(2 Cor 6:16 And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.)

(Ezekiel 37:26-27 I will make a covenant of peace with them. It shall be an everlasting covenant with them. And I will set them in their land and multiply them, and will set my sanctuary in their midst forevermore. My dwelling place shall be with them, and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.)

Therefore the prophecy of Zeke and Hosea were coming to pass in Paul's day and is confirmed by both Peter and James in their letters to the diaspora (scattered) tribes:

(James 1:1 James, a servant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ, to the twelve tribes which are scattered abroad, greeting)

Calls them first fruits as does John in the apocalypse.

(James 1:18 Of his own will begat he us with the word of truth, that we should be a kind of firstfruits of his creatures.)

^ One stick

(1 Pet 1:1 Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ, to the strangers scattered throughout Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia)

(1 Pet 2:9 But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should show forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light)

The new holy nation is comprised of people from the 12 tribes and the Gentiles.

The term peculiar people was previously only related to physical Israel which is now applied to the church of God.

(Deu 14:2 For thou art an holy people unto the LORD thy God, and the LORD hath chosen thee to be a peculiar people unto himself, above all the nations that are upon the earth.)

 

[KJV1611]

...and, of course, I don't see many posters making any points with regard to what concerns "present day unsaved [/unbelieving] Jews," but rather, what prophetic scripture has to say about Israel's FUTURE per passages such as Romans 9:26/Hosea 1:10 (distinct from 9:25 about the Gentiles [/Hosea 2:23b]), and [about Israel's FUTURE in] Hosea 5:15-6:3, and Daniel 12:1-4,10 [distinct from v.13], and Ezekiel 37:12-14,20-23, and Isa26:16-21 and Romans 11:15[25] and John 6:39 [distinct from v.40], and Micah 5:3 [distinct from verse 2] and... etc

Hos 6:2 After two days will he revive us: in the third day he will raise us up, and we shall live in his sight.
Hos 6:3 Then shall we know, if we follow on to know the LORD: his going forth is prepared as the morning; and he shall come unto us as the rain, as the latter and former rain unto the earth.

Jesus spent TWO DAYS in the sepulcher, then on the THIRD DAY he, Hosea and "many of them that slept" rose from the dead and LIVED IN HIS SIGHT.

 

[KJV1611]

...and, of course, I don't see many posters making any points with regard to what concerns "present day unsaved [/unbelieving] Jews," but rather, what prophetic scripture has to say about Israel's FUTURE per passages such as Romans 9:26/Hosea 1:10 (distinct from 9:25 about the Gentiles [/Hosea 2:23b]), and [about Israel's FUTURE in] Hosea 5:15-6:3, and Daniel 12:1-4,10 [distinct from v.13], and Ezekiel 37:12-14,20-23, and Isa26:16-21 and Romans 11:15[25] and John 6:39 [distinct from v.40], and Micah 5:3 [distinct from verse 2] and... etc

Not picking on you TDW I'm bringing all these things up in hopes that you and the others will see that these things have already happened.

Dan 12:1 And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.
Dan 12:2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.

Mat 27:52 And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose,
Mat 27:53 And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.

Matthew quotes Daniel 12 almost VERBATIM - MANY of them that slept arose.

 

[Whispered]

The truth about the 'Great Tribulation' is between these two extremes.

It started in 70 A.D. -- we are in it now -- it will end at some point in time in the future.

I have many friends who pay keen attention to the worldly news. And they believe that it reflects that belief as well. That we are currently in the great tribulation.
For my part I remember the Father has told us that he does not count time as we do. Thousands of years can for God equal to a day in our understanding. That is why I leave it to God to know his mind and establish his plan in this and all things.
My focus is on the Father and I rest in the peace of knowing whenever it arrives, I am ready. As I hope we all are.

 

[KJV1611]

...and, of course, I don't see many posters making any points with regard to what concerns "present day unsaved [/unbelieving] Jews," but rather, what prophetic scripture has to say about Israel's FUTURE per passages such as Romans 9:26/Hosea 1:10 (distinct from 9:25 about the Gentiles [/Hosea 2:23b]), and [about Israel's FUTURE in] Hosea 5:15-6:3, and Daniel 12:1-4,10 [distinct from v.13], and Ezekiel 37:12-14,20-23, and Isa26:16-21 and Romans 11:15[25] and John 6:39 [distinct from v.40], and Micah 5:3 [distinct from verse 2] and... etc

Eze 37:12 Therefore prophesy and say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, O my people, I will open your graves, and cause you to come up out of your graves, and bring you into the land of Israel.
Eze 37:13 And ye shall know that I am the LORD, when I have opened your graves, O my people, and brought you up out of your graves,
Eze 37:14 And shall put my spirit in you, and ye shall live, and I shall place you in your own land: then shall ye know that I the LORD have spoken it, and performed it, saith the LORD.

Mat 27:50 Jesus, when he had cried again with a loud voice, yielded up the ghost.
Mat 27:51 And, behold, the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom; and the earth did quake, and the rocks rent;
Mat 27:52 And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose,
Mat 27:53 And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.

 

[KJV1611]

...and, of course, I don't see many posters making any points with regard to what concerns "present day unsaved [/unbelieving] Jews," but rather, what prophetic scripture has to say about Israel's FUTURE per passages such as Romans 9:26/Hosea 1:10 (distinct from 9:25 about the Gentiles [/Hosea 2:23b]), and [about Israel's FUTURE in] Hosea 5:15-6:3, and Daniel 12:1-4,10 [distinct from v.13], and Ezekiel 37:12-14,20-23, and Isa26:16-21 and Romans 11:15[25] and John 6:39 [distinct from v.40], and Micah 5:3 [distinct from verse 2] and... etc

Ezekiel 37:20-23 see the post by azamzimtoti post #821

 

[KJV1611]

...and, of course, I don't see many posters making any points with regard to what concerns "present day unsaved [/unbelieving] Jews," but rather, what prophetic scripture has to say about Israel's FUTURE per passages such as Romans 9:26/Hosea 1:10 (distinct from 9:25 about the Gentiles [/Hosea 2:23b]), and [about Israel's FUTURE in] Hosea 5:15-6:3, and Daniel 12:1-4,10 [distinct from v.13], and Ezekiel 37:12-14,20-23, and Isa26:16-21 and Romans 11:15[25] and John 6:39 [distinct from v.40], and Micah 5:3 [distinct from verse 2] and... etc

Isa 26:16 LORD, in trouble have they visited thee, they poured out a prayer when thy chastening was upon them.
Isa 26:17 Like as a woman with child, that draweth near the time of her delivery, is in pain, and crieth out in her pangs; so have we been in thy sight, O LORD.
Isa 26:18 We have been with child, we have been in pain, we have as it were brought forth wind; we have not wrought any deliverance in the earth; neither have the inhabitants of the world fallen.
They have labored in their own works, through all THEIR WORKS they have not worked any deliverance in the earth.

Isa 26:19 Thy dead men shall live, together with my dead body shall they arise. Awake and sing, ye that dwell in dust: for thy dew is as the dew of herbs, and the earth shall cast out the dead.
Mat 27:52 And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose,
Mat 27:53 And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.

Isa 26:20 Come, my people, enter thou into thy chambers, and shut thy doors about thee: hide thyself as it were for a little moment, until the indignation be overpast.
Protection from the wrath of AD 70. Scriptural counterpart:
Rev 12:13 And when the dragon saw that he was cast unto the earth, he persecuted the woman which brought forth the man child.
Rev 12:14 And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent.

Isa 26:21 For, behold, the LORD cometh out of his place to punish the inhabitants of the earth for their iniquity: the earth also shall disclose her blood, and shall no more cover her slain.

Mat 23:35 That upon you may come all the righteous blood shed upon the earth, from the blood of righteous Abel unto the blood of Zacharias son of Barachias, whom ye slew between the temple and the altar.

The wrath poured out in AD 70 upon THEM alive in AD 70.

 

[iamsoandso]

Jdg 9:8 The trees went forth on a time to anoint a king over them; and they said unto the olive tree, Reign thou over us.
Jdg 9:9 But the olive tree said unto them, Should I leave my fatness, wherewith by me they honour God and man, and go to be promoted over the trees?
Jdg 9:10 And the trees said to the fig tree, Come thou, and reign over us.
Jdg 9:11 But the fig tree said unto them, Should I forsake my sweetness, and my good fruit, and go to be promoted over the trees?
Jdg 9:12 Then said the trees unto the vine, Come thou, and reign over us.
Jdg 9:13 And the vine said unto them, Should I leave my wine, which cheereth God and man, and go to be promoted over the trees?
Jdg 9:14 Then said all the trees unto the bramble, Come thou, and reign over us.
Jdg 9:15 And the bramble said unto the trees, If in truth ye anoint me king over you, then come and put your trust in my shadow: and if not, let fire come out of the bramble, and devour the cedars of Lebanon.

We are told that the king that would rule over them was the bramble (a prickly scrambling vine or shrub). In this foreshadow, there is another SHADOW - Abimelech. Abimelech WAS NOT the bramble, he was a shadow of the bramble.

So what does that tell us about the future King of Israel? It tells us that THAT KING is a SHADOW of the bramble.

When Pilate asked if the Jews wanted him to release the King of the Jews, they said not this man Jesus, but Barabbas - Barabbas was a SHADOW of the bramble.

Who is the King of the Jews right now? Is he not "the ruler of this world"... who was his shadow when the Jews could have released Christ - Barabbas.

Not saying it's so but just giving you something else to consider. Remember that according to the foreshadowing in Judges, the bramble never was manifest on this earth, only his shadow.

A few post down from here you quoted Hos 5:15 and he will return from his place when they acknowledge their offense but until then they will look for one who comes in his own name (John 5:43). About seventy years ago the earth made an nation and called it after my Lords names sake and seek to build an temple in it that my Lord might tabernacle in. Many support it and await the king who will rise up in it and don't see it in a place where it ought not be, It received a wound and was in the pit but it was healed. Who's who I think will be determined by whom one supports and works for and some will believe it's not suppose to be there because they account for that in the past.

 

[KJV1611]

A few post down from here you quoted Hos 5:15 and he will return from his place when they acknowledge their offense but until then they will look for one who comes in his own name (John 5:43). About seventy years ago the earth made an nation and called it after my Lords names sake and seek to build an temple in it that my Lord might tabernacle in. Many support it and await the king who will rise up in it and don't see it in a place where it ought not be, It received a wound and was in the pit but it was healed. Who's who I think will be determined by whom one supports and works for and some will believe it's not suppose to be there because they account for that in the past.

Which prophecy did Israel fulfill when it became a nation about seventy years ago?

 

[iamsoandso]

Which prophecy did Israel fulfill when it became a nation about seventy years ago?

Israel?,,,you mean the beast that rose out of the earth correct? If so they healed the deadly wound.

 

[KJV1611]

Israel?,,,you mean the beast that rose out of the earth correct? If so they healed the deadly wound.

Do you think Israel is the beast?

 

[iamsoandso]

Do you think Israel is the beast?

The beast he saw is the eight and of the seven it was in the pit in Revelation 17:8(ad70) but it's not the Israel that is of God man set it up,,,wait for Gods.

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

Hos 5:15 I will go and return to my place, till they acknowledge their offence, and seek my face: in their affliction they will seek me early.

When did God live in the flesh with Israel, then leave them and RETURN to HIS PLACE?

...which was the point of my posting that passage, as I did (Hosea 5:15-6:3, among others), as the passage itself is supplying the time frame for it [/involved in it / pertaining to it].


[it is not referring to "two 24-hr days" nor "in the third 24-hr day"]

 

[iamsoandso]

Acts 3:21?

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

Yeah. I'm often pointing out that verse too

"whom indeed it behooves heaven to receive until the times of restoration of all things of which God spoke by the mouth of His holy prophets from the age." [the OT prophetic scriptures I spoke of earlier]




[the phrase "apostles and prophets" (written together like that) refers to NT "apostles and prophets" and the task/msg specifically given to and thru them (the NT apostles and prophets)]

 

[iamsoandso]

Yeah. I'm often pointing out that verse too

"whom indeed it behooves heaven to receive until the times of restoration of all things of which God spoke by the mouth of His holy prophets from the age." [the OT prophetic scriptures I spoke of earlier]

Then Luke 13:35,Matthew 23:39 and John 5:43 are speaking of the same?

 

[azamzimtoti]

I see we've entered the Twilight Zone.

 

[iamsoandso]

I see we've entered the Twilight Zone.

The offer still stands,,,reveal to us that MoS you say was revealed prior to ad70 and you'll have legs to stand on...

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

Which prophecy did Israel fulfill when it became a nation about seventy years ago?

Since you asked...

Here's how I'm seeing that.

Leviticus 26 4x says (basically) [re: Israel],

"[but if not, then]... I will punish you seven times more for your sins."


So (when examined), we see [360y (remained) x 7 = 2520y] -

--FROM 537bc [the "Return to Israel" from captivity] TO 1948ad ["Nation of Israel"] = 2520y (factored in 360-day years, as time-prophecies relating to Israel are often factored)

--FROM 518bc [the "Temple Rebuilding"] TO 1967ad ["Jerusalem Regained" (apart from which, there can be no temple)] = 2520y (ditto the above)

--[I believe there are two other connections, but can't quote them off the top of my head...]

--[ditto the above]


...the equation (in the above) being, "Ezekiel 4 minus 2 Chronicles 36:21 times Leviticus 26 equals 2520 years" (2520 years of 360-day years, in the above-mentioned ones).


I think this has to be more than "coincidence"

(and acknowledging the stages shown to be expected in the Ezekiel 37 chpt ["dry bones prophecy" regarding Israel], this seems to be in agreement... [Ezekiel 38-39 being sequentially following Ezekiel 37 (that is, Gog-Magog War and the 39:7 thing: "in this way, shall *I make My holy name known* in the midst of MY PEOPLE ISRAEL" [just like Joseph did, in the 2nd yr of his "seven yr famine" in Gen45:1,6,7... "and there STOOD NO MAN WITH HIM, while Joseph MADE HIMSELF KNOWN *unto his brethren*"])

 

[Absolutely]

Bare in mind I am not a disp... https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Isaiah+11:11-12&version=KJV

So,you do not believe God works in sets of time frames?
"...till the time of the gentiles be completed"
A time frame of God building his Kingdom before his return,then God turning his attention to his covenant Jewish people (jacobs trouble)