Yeah Paul knew exactly what he was talking about. The problem is that you don’t know what Paul is talking about.
The Tribulation and the Church, WHEN?
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https://biblehub.com/text/2_thessalonians/2-7.htm
ἐκ μέσου γένηται
Still waiting for you comment on 2 Thess 7. Who is being taken out of the way?
Undoubtedly the parties referred to are the same as in vs 3.
Raptured!
Not a new topic; rather, a shift in focus.1Th 5:4 But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief.
1Th 5:5 Ye are all the children of light, and the children of the day: we are not of the night, nor of darkness.
1Th 5:6 Therefore let us not sleep, as do others; but let us watch and be sober.
1Th 5:7 For they that sleep sleep in the night; and they that be drunken are drunken in the night.
Done with those that sleep in the night - lost people.
NEW TOPIC - Those who are of the day - saved people.
1Th 5:8 But let us, who are of the day, be sober, putting on the breastplate of faith and love; and for an helmet, the hope of salvation.
1Th 5:9 For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,
1Th 5:10 Who died for us, that, whether we wake or sleep, we should live together with him.
Those who are of the day, God has not appointed to wrath but unto salvation by Jesus Christ, who died for us so that whether WE ARE AWAKE (alive) or whether WE SLEEP (die), we live together with Christ.
Seems simple enough to me.
All of the words in this color are associated with those who are "of the day/light" (saved people); the word 'others' is associated with "some-or-all" who are not 'we'/'us'.
In verse 6, the word 'sleep' is the "opposed action" to "watch and be sober"; it is not referring to the state of being 'alive' or 'dead'. It is something that 'others' do that 'we'/'us' are being admonished not to do.
Verse 7 is strictly for the purpose of illustration - indicating that to 'sleep' (in the context of this passage) is a 'dark' type of action. It is an "extension" of the admonishment that is essentially saying:
If you 'sleep', then you are "acting like them" or "doing as they do"...
(who characteristically 'sleep' as if normative)
In verse 10, 'wake' and 'sleep' are both associated with 'we'/'us'. There is no 'others' in the context of this verse. It is talking about 'we'/'us' taking one-or-both (only one at any given time) of two actions.
It is not referring to the state of being 'alive' versus 'dead'.
It is referring to the state of being 'attentive' versus 'nonchalant' concerning "the day of the Lord" that "so cometh as a thief in the night" but that "should not overtake you as a thief" ("because you are not in darkness").
It is talking about the attitude and diligence of Christians in looking for the Second Coming of Christ.
What is not clear is your view of the 144,000 Israelites of Revelation.After reading your posts the term becomes very clear
Be aware that should you answer, I will know EXACTLY what your problem is, or is not.
I think it would be best if I start a new thread for this.
Due to a planned Labor Day family gathering and starting a new job next week - it might be a little while before I get to it. (At least several days.)
Please be patient - and, I will put my best effort into getting to it ASAIRP.
("ASAIRP" => "As Soon As Is Reasonably Possible")
Maybe you could learn to post the actual text and understand context.
(2 Th 2:1 Now we request you, brethren, with regard to the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him )
(2 Th 2:3 Let no one in any way deceive you, for it will not come unless the apostasy comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction )
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(2 Th 2:6 And you know what restrains him now, so that in his time he will be revealed. )
(2 Th 2:7 For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work; only he who now restrains will do so until he is taken out of the way. )
(2 Th 2:8 Then that lawless one will be revealed whom the Lord will slay with the breath of His mouth and bring to an end by the appearance of His coming )
The gathering together of verse 1 is not about a made up "rapture".
Notice in verse 3 the man of lawlessness was to be revealed, but was being restrained in verse 7.
So the only way to understand what Paul is saying is to apply the whole section to the lifetime of a man aka the the man of lawlessness who WAS ALIVE and being restrained when Paul wrote to the Thessalonians.
There is no logical reason other than doctrinal presupposition to believe the events relate to a man of lawlessness that is to appear hundreds of years past the lifetimes of those he was writing to.
AhHa. Yet more deception.
Word on the street is that you are a preterist. Moreover, I detect a liberal dose of replacement theology.
I came clean and you have thus far refrained from revealing your preterist stance.
You ever heard of the Saints and the Ain'ts?
The Saints understand and accept Pauls and Johns doctrines on the end times.
Ain'ts....not so much.
Total rubbish. And believe me the GT has yet to occur. But soon. Very soon indeed.
If I’m understanding you correctly, the verse should read as follows:
“Who died for us, that, whether we are attentive or nonchalant concerning the day of the Lord, we should live together with him.
Is that what you think that verse teaches?
Amen! Replacement theology is the most idiotic thing I’ve ever heard of in my life.
Agreed.
I doubt the dispensationalists can figure out who gets slain and who are the people with another name
(Isa 65:15 And ye shall leave your name for a curse unto my chosen: for the Lord GOD shall slay thee, and call his servants by another name )
Replacement theology is is.
Gotchya.
Those who say they are Jews and are not. I recall that condemnation.
OK....so goodbye to iggy. Im off to another expose.
They think his chosen are the “ones who get slain” . Smh
I’m glad you brought that up because that ties in directly with “They are not all Israel that are of Israel”.
indeed,,,it's nature I suppose because we're told there are the four major camps to by instinct join in the first one that seems to make sense. Then in practice to defend it until it is indefensible and then it becomes logical to swap to the other who seems more intact,well unless things drift off into a foggy grey area again ,lol. And then to the other and then the other. Only then I suppose will it occur that we were told there were four camps to choose from and spent our time with them when there was always another.
And this is your opportunity to identify the "him" in 2 Thess.2:6 i.e. the "lawless one" seeing he was alive then and you understand this right?
I just have to locate the guy in time (which I did), that is what is important, to disassemble the dispensational "argument" Stephanie.
