The Tribulation and the Church, WHEN?
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Gordon Lewis explains how the verb from which the noun apostasia is derived supports the basic meaning of departure in the following:
The verb may mean to remove spatially. There is little reason then to deny that the noun can mean such a spatial removal or departure. Since the noun is used only one other time in the New Testament of apostasy from Moses (Acts 21:21), we can hardly conclude that its Biblical meaning is necessarily determined. The verb is used fifteen times in the New Testament. Of these fifteen, only three have anything to do with a departure from the faith (Luke 8:13; 1 Timothy 4:1; Hebrews 3:12). The word is used for departing from iniquity (2 Timothy 2:19), from ungodly men (1 Timothy 6:5), from the temple (Luke 2:27), from the body (2 Corinthians 12:8), and from persons (Acts 12:10; Luke 4:13).[2]
"It is with full assurance of proper exegetical study and with complete confidence in the original languages," concludes Daniel Davey, "that the word meaning of apostasia is defined as departure."
The verb may mean to remove spatially. There is little reason then to deny that the noun can mean such a spatial removal or departure. Since the noun is used only one other time in the New Testament of apostasy from Moses (Acts 21:21), we can hardly conclude that its Biblical meaning is necessarily determined. The verb is used fifteen times in the New Testament. Of these fifteen, only three have anything to do with a departure from the faith (Luke 8:13; 1 Timothy 4:1; Hebrews 3:12). The word is used for departing from iniquity (2 Timothy 2:19), from ungodly men (1 Timothy 6:5), from the temple (Luke 2:27), from the body (2 Corinthians 12:8), and from persons (Acts 12:10; Luke 4:13).[2]
"It is with full assurance of proper exegetical study and with complete confidence in the original languages," concludes Daniel Davey, "that the word meaning of apostasia is defined as departure."
What precisely does Paul mean when he says that "the falling away" (2:3) must come before the tribulation? The definite article "the" denotes that this will be a definite event, an event distinct from the appearance of the Man of Sin. The Greek word for "falling away," taken by itself, does not mean religious apostasy or defection. Neither does the word mean "to fall," as the Greeks have another word for that. [pipto, I fall; TDI] The best translation of the word is "to depart." The apostle Paul refers here to a definite event which he calls "the departure," and which will occur just before the start of the tribulation. This is the rapture of the church.[4]
So the word has the core meaning of departure and it depends upon the context to determine whether it is used to mean physical departure or an abstract departure such as departure from the faith.
So the word has the core meaning of departure and it depends upon the context to determine whether it is used to mean physical departure or an abstract departure such as departure from the faith.
"For but dissencioun come first, and the man of synne be schewid, the sonne of perdicioun."
Looks like a fail for you, as your earlier post supports the Pre-Trib position...
So I expect you will repent and receive your Blessed Hope? Truly I hope you will.
"In fact, Jerome's Latin translation known as the Vulgate from around the time of a.d. 400 renders apostasia with the "word discessio, meaning 'departure.'"
Looks like a fail for you, as your earlier post supports the Pre-Trib position...
So I expect you will repent and receive your Blessed Hope? Truly I hope you will.
"In fact, Jerome's Latin translation known as the Vulgate from around the time of a.d. 400 renders apostasia with the "word discessio, meaning 'departure.'"
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2 Thessalonians 2:3 1599 Geneva Bible (GNV)
3 Let no man deceive you by any means: [a]for that day shall not come, except there come a departing first, and that [b]that man of sin be disclosed, even the son of perdition.
a 2 Thessalonians 2:3 The Apostle foretelleth that before the coming of the Lord, there shall be a throne set up clean contrary to Christ’s glory, wherein that wicked man shall sit, and transfer all things that appertain to God, to himself, and many shall fall away from God to him.
Let's give he whole story here and not the dispy twist.
The footnote states that "departing" means - A throne shall be set up clean CONTRARY to Christ's glory. Does that sound like the translator thinks "departure" means a rapture or a falling away from Christ... best to leave translating to the professionals!
3 Let no man deceive you by any means: [a]for that day shall not come, except there come a departing first, and that [b]that man of sin be disclosed, even the son of perdition.
a 2 Thessalonians 2:3 The Apostle foretelleth that before the coming of the Lord, there shall be a throne set up clean contrary to Christ’s glory, wherein that wicked man shall sit, and transfer all things that appertain to God, to himself, and many shall fall away from God to him.
Let's give he whole story here and not the dispy twist.
The footnote states that "departing" means - A throne shall be set up clean CONTRARY to Christ's glory. Does that sound like the translator thinks "departure" means a rapture or a falling away from Christ... best to leave translating to the professionals!
Entry Info
Formsdissenciǒun n. Also dissensioun, discencioun & descencioun.EtymologyL & OF
Definitions (Senses and Subsenses)
1.
(a) Disagreement in sentiment or opinion; esp., overt dissension, quarreling, civil strife; maken (meven, setten)~; fallen at (upon) ~, to start to quarrel; (b) a disagreement, dispute, quarrel, conflict; (c) dissent; with ~, by way of dissent; (d) phys. conflict, lack of harmony (between opposite qualities).
Do you seriously believe that discension means departure? I have to wonder why someone would post such false statements? Seriously why would you do that?
Formsdissenciǒun n. Also dissensioun, discencioun & descencioun.EtymologyL & OF
Definitions (Senses and Subsenses)
1.
(a) Disagreement in sentiment or opinion; esp., overt dissension, quarreling, civil strife; maken (meven, setten)~; fallen at (upon) ~, to start to quarrel; (b) a disagreement, dispute, quarrel, conflict; (c) dissent; with ~, by way of dissent; (d) phys. conflict, lack of harmony (between opposite qualities).
Do you seriously believe that discension means departure? I have to wonder why someone would post such false statements? Seriously why would you do that?
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Bishops Bible 1568
2 Thessalonians Chapter: 2
3Let no man deceaue you by any meanes, for [the Lorde shall not come] excepte there come a fallyng away first, & that that man of sinne be reuealed, the sonne of perdition,
For those who don't understand Middle English, "fallyng away" DOES NOT mean departure, it means "falling away".
2 Thessalonians Chapter: 2
3Let no man deceaue you by any meanes, for [the Lorde shall not come] excepte there come a fallyng away first, & that that man of sinne be reuealed, the sonne of perdition,
For those who don't understand Middle English, "fallyng away" DOES NOT mean departure, it means "falling away".
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I would say to that ^ , that in Daniel 12, where the second HALF of the future trib is in view [the final 1260 days], that the phrase "the abomination [SINGULAR] that maketh desolate SET UP"... that this "SET UP" phrase correlates with verse 4 of 2Th2, where the word "sitteth" means this very thing (I made a post on this elsewhere), yet the same passage is saying that "the departure FIRST" is something completely DISTINCT from the phrase "and the man of sin be revealed"... (ONE THING is said to be *FIRST*)… and the man of sin "be revealed" takes place at the START of the 7-yr period [also 2Th2:9a "whose COMING/advent/arrival/presence/parousia"], not at its middle like the 2Th2:4 refers to (nor its end, which is referred to in 2Th2:8b [not in 8a]).
I made posts on these points before, so won't take time to repeat them here.
[same point made in Rev13:2b,5b]
I made posts on these points before, so won't take time to repeat them here.
[same point made in Rev13:2b,5b]
Noun
discessiō f (genitive discessiōnis); third declension
- withdrawal
- dispersal
- separation, division
By the way:
"It is with full assurance of proper exegetical study and with complete confidence in the original languages," concludes Daniel Davey, "that the word meaning of apostasia is defined as departure."
Mr. Davey came to this conclusion for his "thesis" in 1982 at a dispensationalist seminary, no peer review and hardly a credible source:
“The Apostasia of II Thessalonians 2:3.” ThM thesis, Detroit Baptist Theological Seminary, 1982."
lmao that T. Ice is using the above in his dispensational desperation.
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It can mean a departure, but the context determines what the departure is from.
Note the primary definition in the Lexicon:
ἀπο-στα^σία , ἡ, late form for ἀπόστασις,
A. defection, revolt, v.l. in D.H.7.1, J.Vit.10, Plu.Galb.1; esp. in religious sense, rebellion against God, apostasy, LXX Jo.22.22, 2 Ep.Th.2.3.
2. departure, disappearance, Olymp. in Mete.320.2.
3. distinguishing, c. gen., Elias in Cat.119.7.
4. distance, Archim.Aren.1.5.
Note the primary definition in the Lexicon:
ἀπο-στα^σία , ἡ, late form for ἀπόστασις,
A. defection, revolt, v.l. in D.H.7.1, J.Vit.10, Plu.Galb.1; esp. in religious sense, rebellion against God, apostasy, LXX Jo.22.22, 2 Ep.Th.2.3.
2. departure, disappearance, Olymp. in Mete.320.2.
3. distinguishing, c. gen., Elias in Cat.119.7.
4. distance, Archim.Aren.1.5.
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