Did Jesus ever tell us that we no longer need to keep the law of Moses?

[SimpleGardner]

Your trying to put people under law. Under law you had to come and bring your sin to the priest. Then he had to make sacrifice for that or those sins.

I'm not trying to put anyone under the Law, but I do know that the Holy Spirit writes the Laws upon our hearts for a reason and that is not so we can say I am no longer responsible for keeping any of them!

If that were so then we wouldn't need the Holy Spirit to achieve that, That is the case before!!

 

[eternally-gratefull]

There's a thing. Moses assembled the people together and told them the 'Lord' has commanded you not to kindle a fire on the Sabbath. This is of course the god of Israelite's, the god of only one people.

Passage please

 

[Yahshua]

There's a thing. Moses assembled the people together and told them the 'Lord' has commanded you not to kindle a fire on the Sabbath. This is of course the god of Israelite's, the god of only one people.

..........who I guess you're saying is "not the creator"?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I'm not trying to put anyone under the Law,

No but what your doing is really no different is it not?

but I do know that the Holy Spirit writes the Laws upon our hearts for a reason and that is not so we can say I am no longer responsible for keeping any of them!

Nor am I, And i have told you this how many times, yet you still think otherwise.

If that were so then we wouldn't need the Holy Spirit to achieve that, That is the case before!!

The HS not only writes those laws. He teaches us HOW to obey them.

What seperates our belief is what this power that causes us to obey them are.

 

[SimpleGardner]

..........who I guess you're saying is "not the creator"?

Where is this going!?

 

[PS]

The Book of Jeremiah is Old Testament. It does not purport to prove what you said concerning New Testament Jesus.
"The Priests banged drums and blew trumpets to hide the babies screams. These various gods were the devil in different forms, worshipped by the Jews. They were doing this in the Valley of Himmon (not sure of the spelling) while Jesus was giving the Sermon on the Mount. "

I asked you for the passage that says what you stated above.

Yahweh was, and is the god of the Jews. They deserted the I AM for other god's, but He never deserted them. They still need to return to the true God and Jesus is patiently waiting.

Do a Bible search on Molec, I spent months reading the four books of Kings and Chronicles and the rest of the Old Testament.

 

[ArtsieSteph]

I feel like there was a specific verse that Jesus said He didn't come to destroy the law...

Oh this one! Had to Bible gateway it haha.

Matthew 5:16-18 New King James Version (NKJV)

16 Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works and glorify your Father in heaven.

Christ Fulfills the Law

17 “Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill.

18 For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one [a]jot or one [b]tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled.

I'm thinking that means we can't fulfill all the law ourselves, but through the righteousness of Christ it is filled...?? Like we need to try and obey His commandments as best we can, but if we DO sin we have Christ who redeems us. That make sense at all? XDDD

 

[Grandpa]

^ Case in point. We need to define The Law.

---

A king creates the constitution of his kingdom - 11 laws - and demands the whole law must be obeyed. "Breaking one is like breaking them all".

...His subjects must obey the whole law, right? That's what the king demands.

Q: What's the "Whole law"?

A: 11 laws


Some time passes and that king adds 5 new laws and once again expects the whole law to be obeyed. Again, "Breaking one is like breaking them all".

Q: What is the "Whole law" now?

A: 16 laws


Even more time passes, and the king decides he can remove certain laws as old and obsolete. They don't fit the situation anymore. He removes 6 laws. But once again, "Breaking one law is like breaking them all".

Q: What is the "Whole Law" now?

A: The 10 laws the king hasn't removed that are still active.


One group says, "we must obey these laws the king hasn't removed."

The other group says, "To obey even one is to make us responsible for all 16."

The first group retorts, "no, the ones no longer active we don't have to worry about."

The second group insists, "are you blind or purposely deceptive? Breaking one is like breaking them all. Try to obey even one and we're responsible for all 16. All 16 were originally given. The whole law is all 16. We can't do any now."

----

The division is in understanding the meaning of keywords (like Law) from one context to the next.

I don't remember Moses going up MT Sinai with the Law written on stone and God scratching off laws.

The law is based on the 10 commandments. All the rest of the laws written by Moses were how people were to follow these 10 commandments.

So, if you choose a law out of the 10 commandments that you really like and want to work at, then you have placed yourself under all the law of Moses, not just your favorite one out of the 10 commandments.

The law of Moses wasn't "extra" laws that could be disregarded at the whim of whoever decided to follow it.

When you chop up Moses law into sections and decide some are fulfilled and some aren't then you make a mockery of Christianity and Judaism at the same time, following neither.

That is the choice that Paul tries so hard to teach the legalists and judaizers. Choose either Judaism or choose Christianity but don't try to do both because its not possible.

Galatians 3:10-12
10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.

11 But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith.

12 And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them.


Is it really possible that legalists and judaizers DON'T understand these simple passages?

 

[PS]

..........who I guess you're saying is "not the creator"?

Correct. Not the pre-incarnate Jesus

 

[PS]

Passage please

Exodus 35.

 

[Whispered]

Yahweh was, and is the god of the Jews. They deserted the I AM for other god's, but He never deserted them. They still need to return to the true God and Jesus is patiently waiting.

Do a Bible search on Molec, I spent months reading the four books of Kings and Chronicles and the rest of the Old Testament.

And yet you still cannot find a verse that supports what you said prior? You repeatedly fail to do that. Why? If you've committed to such study, why would you then say > The Priests banged drums and blew trumpets to hide the babies screams. These various gods were the devil in different forms, worshipped by the Jews. They were doing this in the Valley of Himmon (not sure of the spelling) while Jesus was giving the Sermon on the Mount.

And not prove it with scripture.

 

[posthuman]

I'm not trying to put anyone under the Law, but I do know that the Holy Spirit writes the Laws upon our hearts for a reason and that is not so we can say I am no longer responsible for keeping any of them!

If that were so then we wouldn't need the Holy Spirit to achieve that, That is the case before!!

Is it written on your heart to stone to death anyone who breaks the sabbath?

 

[SimpleGardner]

Is it written on your heart to stone to death anyone who breaks the sabbath?

Is this Zion?

 

[Grandpa]

I feel like there was a specific verse that Jesus said He didn't come to destroy the law...

Oh this one! Had to Bible gateway it haha.

Matthew 5:16-18 New King James Version (NKJV)

16 Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works and glorify your Father in heaven.

Christ Fulfills the Law

17 “Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill.

18 For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one [a]jot or one [b]tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled.

I'm thinking that means we can't fulfill all the law ourselves, but through the righteousness of Christ it is filled...?? Like we need to try and obey His commandments as best we can, but if we DO sin we have Christ who redeems us. That make sense at all? XDDD

Its kind of tricky talking about this without offending people.

But you pretty much seem to have the gist of it.

The 'need to try and obey His commandments the best we can' part is kind of tough to define. But I guess there is as much truth to that statement as there could be error if taken the wrong way.

I would say there is more need to abide in Christ and let Him Produce the Fruit in our lives than us worry about which commandments we should be working the best we can at.... But it amounts to pretty much the same thing if you look at it from the right angle... I think...

 

[posthuman]

..........who I guess you're saying is "not the creator"?

I take it PS is also saying Moses was lying, so that scripture is lying...?

There's a thing. Moses assembled the people together and told them the 'Lord' has commanded you not to kindle a fire on the Sabbath. This is of course the god of Israelite's, the god of only one 1⃣ people.

Exodus 35:1 specifically mentions YHWH as being the origin of that command. LORD not just 'Lord'

 

[DeighAnn]

Romans 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
Romans 8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.

Philipians 1:6 Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:
Philipians 1:7 Even as it is meet for me to think this of you all, because I have you in my heart; inasmuch as both in my bonds, and in the defence and confirmation of the gospel, ye all are partakers of my grace.
Philipians 1:8 For God is my record, how greatly I long after you all in the bowels of Jesus Christ.
Philipians 1:9 And this I pray, that your love may abound yet more and more in knowledge and in all judgment;
Philipians 1:10 That ye may approve things that are excellent; that ye may be sincere and without offence till the day of Christ.
Philipians 1:11 Being filled with the fruits of righteousness, which are by Jesus Christ, unto the glory and praise of God.

You either have the spirit. And thus even though your body is guilty, Your spirit is given life, as we ar adopted as son, and no longer need to live in fear (the law)

We never do fear the law. We never bring up being "under the law", We are always under grace yet follow the law. Love, life and forgivenss. No perfection required. Not under a curse. Walking in the Spirit. No bondage to sin, with a light yoke. The law refining and keeping the lusts of the flesh out of our walk.

The law requires perfection, The prupose of the law was to expose our sin, and lead us to christ

Romans 8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.

A foolish question?

I will tell you what the law gives us

When we stand in front of Christ, God will use the ten commands to PROVE we were sinners.

And when we try to show him how many great works we did, how much we loved the law. How many works we did in his name.

He will agains use that law. To PROVE you were under the curse of the law. And to show you how you have no excuse, how that SAME law showed you how your sins woudl be remitted or atoned for. And if you had only looked to the law as it was purposed to be looked at. You would realise this.

But since you did not? Hiw reply will be depart from me for I NEVER KNEW YOU.

You see, I see in my view that you want to take the law which God gave to PROVE TO US how sinful we REALY ARE, in hopes of leading us to the one high priest and lamb of God. And make it into something else. Which it was never intended to be. And I just can not agree with that

To me, This is the same mistake the pharisees Made. And you know what? They did the same thing to Jesus and his followers that any here do to us? tell us how we hate Gods law. Hate obedience, Hate people that wish to be obedient. Love our sin, and in effect Hate God. And anyone who wants to be obedient, so we attack them, and all the other things we get accused of.

Well just like the tax collector. We see who went home justified. It was not the one who always focused on himself. How righteous he was. How much he loves God. And how much he is being attacked. He looked at the same law. Saw his condemnation. And understood the sacrifices could never remove sin, and called out to God for salvation

he went home justified, He went home adopted as a child of God. He went home wiht the eternal life Jesus told nicodemus anyone who believed would have, With the rivers of living water he romised the woman at the well and anyone else who asks for this living water. He went home after having eaten the flesh and blood of Christ, recieved the promises that he would never hunger, never thirst, He would live forever, He HAS eternal life, HE WILL be risen on the last day, And he s NO LONGER DEAD. (I can go on and on and give many other examples of what that person received the moment God answered him) but hope-full you get The point.

Now what is this person going to do? He is going to go get baptized. Go and by Gods grace and Mercy and power change his life. Be one who obeys Gods commands, Because he is a new creature, and can as john said, no longer live in sin (the way he did before)

But sadly people want to take that power away from him and try to put him back under law. And thats the most dangerous thing a new believer can get caught up in, It will want to destroy them. I know. I not only experienced this sad fate, I have witnessed many people who also suffered the same fate..

When we stand in front of God the books will be opened. All sins not repented of will be right there convicting us. All sins repented of will have been blotted out. We will received linen for righteous acts or punishment for sin. THAT IS WHY ACKNOWLEDGING THE LAW IS SO IMPORTANT. NOT FOR YOU BUT FOR THE "LAMBS" And if you teach a "lamb" there is no law to be aware of that you must follow, then that :"lamb does not repent" and when that "lamb" stands before God, all those sins not repented of are there. Teach a lamb the law, teach a lamb to repent, get the lamb to God with all sins blotted out. THAT IS OUR JOB FOR GOD. Feed my sheep. Feed my lambs. Feed my sheep. Three fold ministry that when teaching you should never forget. It isn't about you. It is about those that are lost. You have years. You teach someone there is just a spirit and it guides you and they have no idea how important it is, that is one clean house for the devil to jump into. Just sayin...

If you go by confession and admission of your sin, then what did Abba say he would do with those sins?

Repent means to change our mind

And example is that before we repented, We considered that sleeping with our girlfriend was ok. it was not a sin

To repent means that we no longer believe it is ok, we agree wiht God that it is a sin.

So after we come to this knowledge, If we fall in this area. Do we repent again? Of course not, we knew it ws a sin. We confess this sin to God. We acknowledge our sin, Accept our chastening and move on..

Another option is to keep fosucing on it, Keep feeling sorry for ourselves because we failed. Keep begging God to forgive us, and get torn down or

Another option is to deny it is sin, and say at least your not commiting murder. Or being a pedofile so your ok..

Neither of the last two options are good.

I am hoping that "confessing sins" and asking for forgiveness is just another way of saying "repent" and ask forgiveness. I would imagine each is about acknowledging our sin.....................

 

[Grandpa]

Is it written on your heart to stone to death anyone who breaks the sabbath?

I'm starting to think about it...

 

[PS]

And yet you still cannot find a verse that supports what you said prior? You repeatedly fail to do that. Why? If you've committed to such study, why would you then say > The Priests banged drums and blew trumpets to hide the babies screams. These various gods were the devil in different forms, worshipped by the Jews. They were doing this in the Valley of Himmon (not sure of the spelling) while Jesus was giving the Sermon on the Mount.

And not prove it with scripture.

Find it. Do a Bible search, google it, I'm not your servant and it is my bed time.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moloch

 

[Yahshua]

I don't remember Moses going up MT Sinai with the Law written on stone and God scratching off laws.

I don't either. Who ever said he did? Let's go stone that scarecrow, you and I. I'll gather the stones.

The law is based on the 10 commandments. All the rest of the laws written by Moses were how people were to follow these 10 commandments.

Incorrect. The laws given for the ministration of blood (levitical rites; sacrifices, etc) had nothing to do with obeying the commandments. They had to do with justification/cleansing.

So, if you choose a law out of the 10 commandments that you really like and want to work at, then you have placed yourself under all the law of Moses, not just your favorite one out of the 10 commandments.

The law of Moses wasn't "extra" laws that could be disregarded at the whim of whoever decided to follow it.

Is the living God sovereign? Is he allowed to add to or take away from the things he commands his people to obey?

When you chop up Moses law into sections and decide some are fulfilled and some aren't then you make a mockery of Christianity and Judaism at the same time, following neither.

If that's the case as you've said it then let both be mocked. The Almighty and his Son didn't create man-made religions. They created "The Way" to have a true relationship with them through the Holy Spirit.

That is the choice that Paul tries so hard to teach the legalists and judaizers. Choose either Judaism or choose Christianity but don't try to do both because its not possible.

Absolutely not. What??

Sorry Grandpa but no. Please don't mischaracterise Paul's message like this.

"Do not stray to the right or to the left."

"Straight is the way and narrow is the gate that leads to life and very few find it."

Galatians 3:10-12
10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.

11 But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith.

12 And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them.

Once again, Justification/cleansing = restoring a person after sin.

That's the context.

Is it really possible that legalists and judaizers DON'T understand these simple passages?

Perhaps. But its also possible they may understand the law much better than heathens and the lawless do.

 

[Yahshua]

I take it PS is also saying Moses was lying, so that scripture is lying...?



Exodus 35:1 specifically mentions YHWH as being the origin of that command. LORD not just 'Lord'

I mean yeah there's arguing about the law now etc etc...but there's no disagreement as to who gave it at the mount, I thought.