Did Jesus ever tell us that we no longer need to keep the law of Moses?

[SimpleGardner]

See Y'all in a while....some work to do!

While I'm Gone; Bless YHWH, Know and Keep! and If you fall short, seek repentance.

SG

 

[Yahshua]

Why can't you accept that people are condemned because they sin against God, rather than because they lit a fire on the Sabbath? I have never heard such nonsense.

There may be a communication issue here. Both sides are speaking different languages. Words mean different things.

When someone like me reads this this is what I read:

"Why can't you accept that people are condemned because they break God's Law, rather than because they obeyed a Law from Exodus? I have never heard such nonsense."

How do you define "sin" from your perspective?

 

[NayborBear]

Perhaps the only people who are saved are the ones who DO see themselves in that camp.

The pharisee prayed, I keep all the commandments! thank God I am not like those sinners!

The publican dared not lift his eyes, and prayed, have mercy on me a sinner!

Only one of them went home justified.

I'll have to give you that one PH!
There ARE those who have been given "strong delusion", so that they would "believe a lie!"
Meaning they "believe" they are saved!
Ya? I'll hafta give you that one!

 

[posthuman]

I'll have to give you that one PH!
There ARE those who have been given "strong delusion", so that they would "believe a lie!"
Meaning they "believe" they are saved!
Ya? I'll hafta give you that one!

What is "the lie" you are referring to?

 

[PS]

There may be a communication issue here. Both sides are speaking different languages. Words mean different things.

When someone like me reads this this is what I read:

"Why can't you accept that people are condemned because they break God's Law, rather than because they obeyed a Law from Exodus? I have never heard such nonsense."

How do you define "sin" from your perspective?

Sin is an offence against God. Lighting a fire is not. You have a man-made religion.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I hear you EG, but, and I do not say these things with contempt of judgement, but with sorrow that you cannot see how I truly see and feel. The tax collector was not justified because he wasn't a Pharisee, but because he was contrite. His justification was due to His acquiescing to the Light of God's righteous requirements, the Law which gave him a repentant and humbled heart! This is our life day in and day out. If we are not humbled and contrite how can our hearts reach the point that the Tax collector did? He was ripe for Justification! We need to stay Humble like that. Yeah the Pharisees were hypocrites, Jurks in everyones eyes! I hope. And you are wrong, I do not think I am holier than you! Sad thing to say EG.

This is why I do see how you truly feel.

You think it is a day in and day out event, Jesus did not say that, He Said at a particular time, this man? He got on his knees and cried out to God to save him.

And jesus said he went home justified. He did not go home to continue to work on being justified.

Justification is a one time even based on the finished work of Jesus, not a lifetime event where we try to continue to save ourselves

 

[Whispered]

Read John 8:44. The Father of the Pharisees was the devil and people today are still being entrapped by their lies.

I think it would do you well to read the entire chapter of that Book of John chapter 8. You've mentioned this before and that in part is why I went looking for some resource that would maybe bring peace to this discussion.
Did you read verse 5? It pertains to what I shared earlier in that find. The differences between God's law and the Law of Moses.
Verse 5 pertains to that and what you are excerpting as chapter 8's verse 44.
5 [a]Now in the law Moses commanded us to stone such: what then sayest thou of her?
Footnote: [a]John 8:5 Lev. 20:10; Dt. 22:22f.

The law of Moses. Which is different from the Law of God.
Which is what Jesus was recalling in the later verses of chapter 8 when speaking to the Jews gathered.

The Book of John Chapter 8 ASV

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Is it your theology that we repent once and from that point forward we simply ask for forgiveness? To me Repentance means following up "conviction for sins committed", by committing to never do them again, and then asking forgiveness.

I take that to mean you think without a repentant heart you may still receive forgiveness. Is that correct?


2Co 7:9 NIV yet now I am happy, not because you were made sorry, but because your sorrow led you to repentance. For you became sorrowful as God intended and so were not harmed in any way by us.

Repent means to change our mind

And example is that before we repented, We considered that sleeping with our girlfriend was ok. it was not a sin

To repent means that we no longer believe it is ok, we agree wiht God that it is a sin.

So after we come to this knowledge, If we fall in this area. Do we repent again? Of course not, we knew it ws a sin. We confess this sin to God. We acknowledge our sin, Accept our chastening and move on..

Another option is to keep fosucing on it, Keep feeling sorry for ourselves because we failed. Keep begging God to forgive us, and get torn down or

Another option is to deny it is sin, and say at least your not commiting murder. Or being a pedofile so your ok..

Neither of the last two options are good.

 

[NayborBear]

What is "the lie" you are referring to?

That this "spirit of anti christ mentioned here is going to save them:
2 Thessalonians 2
4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

Which begs the question:
Who is greater?
The Son?
Or the Father?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Noone can deny the point you are making, but you miss the mark by doing exactly what the Pahrisee did by accusing. The point of it was to show that a Humble and contrite heart is required to reach repentance a prerequisite to forgiveness/Justification!

The pharisee accused a person of sin, while denying his own sin

Lets get the correct accusation down.. He did not just accuse, he was a hypocrite.

 

[Yahshua]

Sin is an offence against God. Lighting a fire is not. You have a man-made religion.

But a man-made religion is one where man makes up their own rules to obey The Almighty as opposed to the rules He alone sets.

And yet when I asked you what is sin you tell me your own rule instead of what the scripture says,

I asked a simple question in the spirit of bridging the communication gap, and yet you make a judgment against me.

...one that more so fits you factually.

Do you see why folks can't seem to dialog here?

 

[NayborBear]

Would love to stay?
Have grasses to cut.
(well? perhaps a little longer...lol)

 

[DeighAnn]

1st thing to look at is the mosaic. It uses a verse said it was the handwriting of ordinance whcih was against us, contrary to us, and christ took it out of the way.

Colossians 2:8 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.
Colossians 2:9 For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.
Colossians 2:10 And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power:
Colossians 2:11 In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ:
Colossians 2:12 Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.
Colossians 2:13 And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;
Colossians 2:14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;
Colossians 2:15 And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it.
Christ got rid of that law, lets leave it and move on to forgiveness

What was against us contrary to us and condemned us was the “curse of the law”. What was the curse? Whoever did not confirm and obey ever word “jot and tittle” will be cursed.

Galatians 3:13 Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree (If only you could leave that law behind) see here, we have been redeemed

Many people claimed to be followers of him, yet he will tell them to depart.

Yes, the workers of iniquity (lawless)

YOU MUST BE PERFECT.

Mark 3:28 Verily I say unto you, All sins shall be forgiven unto the sons of men, and blasphemies wherewith soever they shall blaspheme:
Mark 3:29 But he that shall blaspheme against the Holy Ghost hath never forgiveness, but is in danger of eternal damnation.

You do not have to be perfect in the NT because jesus took the PENALTY OF SIN and nailed it to the cross. So instead of focusin gon performance and self. You can focus on loving others.

And WE ARE ALL UNDER GRACE, under grace, the New Covenant, The New Testament, none of us have to be perfect, EVEN THOSE WHO FOLLOW THE LAW OF THE KINGDOM OF GOD HAVE BEEN SET FREE, BY OUR LORD AND SAVIOUR JESUS CHRIST

If you are trying to be righteous by following some code written in stone. (At a minimum, The ten commands) You will fail

Exodus 32:14 And the LORD repented of the evil which he thought to do unto his people.
Exodus 32:15 And Moses turned, and went down from the mount, and the two tables of the testimony were in his hand: the tables were written on both their sides; on the one side and on the other were they written.
Exodus 32:16 And the tables were the work of God, and the writing was the writing of God, graven upon the tables.


Exodus 33:13 Now therefore, I pray thee, if I have found grace in thy sight, shew me now thy way, that I may know thee, that I may find grace in thy sight and consider that this nation is thy people.
Exodus 33:14 And he said, My presence shall go with thee, and I will give thee rest.


Deuteronomy 4:13 And He declared unto you His covenant, which He commanded you to perform, even ten commandments and He wrote them upon two tables of stone.

 

[Whispered]

Would love to stay?
Have grasses to cut.
(well? perhaps a little longer...lol)

Hopefully it's a riding mower. Love the smell of fresh cut grass.
See you soon.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Colossians 2:8 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.
Colossians 2:9 For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.
Colossians 2:10 And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power:
Colossians 2:11 In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ:
Colossians 2:12 Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.
Colossians 2:13 And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;
Colossians 2:14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;
Colossians 2:15 And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it.
Christ got rid of that law, lets leave it and move on to forgiveness





Galatians 3:13 Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree (If only you could leave that law behind) see here, we have been redeemed



Yes, the workers of iniquity (lawless)



Mark 3:28 Verily I say unto you, All sins shall be forgiven unto the sons of men, and blasphemies wherewith soever they shall blaspheme:
Mark 3:29 But he that shall blaspheme against the Holy Ghost hath never forgiveness, but is in danger of eternal damnation.





And WE ARE ALL UNDER GRACE, under grace, the New Covenant, The New Testament, none of us have to be perfect, EVEN THOSE WHO FOLLOW THE LAW OF THE KINGDOM OF GOD HAVE BEEN SET FREE, BY OUR LORD AND SAVIOUR JESUS CHRIST





Exodus 32:14 And the LORD repented of the evil which he thought to do unto his people.
Exodus 32:15 And Moses turned, and went down from the mount, and the two tables of the testimony were in his hand: the tables were written on both their sides; on the one side and on the other were they written.
Exodus 32:16 And the tables were the work of God, and the writing was the writing of God, graven upon the tables.


Exodus 33:13 Now therefore, I pray thee, if I have found grace in thy sight, shew me now thy way, that I may know thee, that I may find grace in thy sight and consider that this nation is thy people.
Exodus 33:14 And he said, My presence shall go with thee, and I will give thee rest.


Deuteronomy 4:13 And He declared unto you His covenant, which He commanded you to perform, even ten commandments and He wrote them upon two tables of stone.

So much contradictory stuff in here

Can I ask you a question.

How can you believe in grace (unmerited favor) yet not believe in eternal security

Why do you think you must merit your salvation whch God calls of grace?

 

[DeighAnn]

2 Corinthians 3:4 And such trust have we through Christ to God-ward:

2 Corinthians 3:5 Not that we are sufficient of ourselves to think any thing as of ourselves; but our sufficiency is of God;

2 Corinthians 3:6 Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.

2 Corinthians 3:7 But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away:

2 Corinthians 3:8 How shall not the ministration of the spirit be rather glorious?

2 Corinthians 3:9 For if the ministration of condemnation be glory, much more doth the ministration of righteousness exceed in glory.

2 Corinthians 3:10 For even that which was made glorious had no glory in this respect, by reason of the glory that excelleth.

2 Corinthians 3:11 For if that which is done away was glorious, much more that which remaineth is glorious.

2 Corinthians 3:12 Seeing then that we have such hope, we use great plainness of speech:

2 Corinthians 3:13 And not as Moses, which put a vail over his face, that the children of Israel could not stedfastly look to the end of that which is abolished

2 Corinthians 3:14 But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament which vail is done away in Christ.

lET GO OF THE OLD TESTAMENT BONDAGE AND DEATH TAKE AWAY THE VAIL AS OUR LORD AND SAVIOR DID FOR US. THE OLD IS GONE, THE OLD CAN NOT HOLD YOU. YOU NEED NOT BE PERFECT WE NOW HAVE FORGIVENESS

 

[DeighAnn]

So much contradictory stuff in here

Can I ask you a question.

How can you believe in grace (unmerited favor) yet not believe in eternal security

Why do you think you must merit your salvation whch God calls of grace?

TO PROGRESS, TO MATURE, TO IMPROVE MY WALK WITH GOD, AND BECOME MORE CHRISTLIKE, TO CHANGE THE INNER MAN, TO BECOME OBEDIENT,

I have unmerited favor, I am saved, But, I am not super miraculously turned into the best person I can be for Christ. I am at the beginning of a journey to progress towards perfection. I have been left with help to get there but I must do it on my own.

If having been baptized by the Holy Spirit made me "everything I needed to be" then it would be the same for everyone. Look around. Life proves it just isn't so.

 

[Yahshua]

I miss Polls. Is this site still able to do polls?

I would make a poll to see where we're all divided on the meaning of certain keywords.

 

[PS]

I think it would do you well to read the entire chapter of that Book of John chapter 8. You've mentioned this before and that in part is why I went looking for some resource that would maybe bring peace to this discussion.
Did you read verse 5? It pertains to what I shared earlier in that find. The differences between God's law and the Law of Moses.
Verse 5 pertains to that and what you are excerpting as chapter 8's verse 44.
5 [a]Now in the law Moses commanded us to stone such: what then sayest thou of her?
Footnote: [a]John 8:5 Lev. 20:10; Dt. 22:22f.

The law of Moses. Which is different from the Law of God.
Which is what Jesus was recalling in the later verses of chapter 8 when speaking to the Jews gathered.

The Book of John Chapter 8 ASV

One is the law of Moses that condemned the woman caught in adultery to be stoned to death, while Jesus, on the other hand applied His Father's Law and set her free.

Moses, had he been alive would have ordered the stoning of the woman, and when he was alive he ordered, in the name of his god the rape of little children. (Num 31:9-18) For that it should have been Moses who was stoned to death.

This is further proof of the evil nature of the Jewish god, just like Jesus said.

 

[gb9]

I miss Polls. Is this site still able to do polls?

I would make a poll to see where we're all divided on the meaning of certain keywords.

the divide is in if the Law was divided into parts ( it's not ) vs. those who think the Law is a whole entity, so it has to be kept as a whole, if any try to keep it ( the truth)