Understanding Church History

[Blik]

I'm glad you recognize that... so you have no reason to criticize anyone for worshiping on Sunday.

I use this site as a help to my study, to tell what I have learned, and to hear what others think. It guides my reasoning so my personal faith is helped. I do not use it to be critical. What I would like is to freely be allowed to say I do not think worshiping on Sunday is following scripture. The people I dearly love worship on Sunday and I want them to follow what they believe, and I want to be allowed say that is not in scripture.

 

[Dino246]

I use this site as a help to my study, to tell what I have learned, and to hear what others think. It guides my reasoning so my personal faith is helped. I do not use it to be critical. What I would like is to freely be allowed to say I do not think worshiping on Sunday is following scripture. The people I dearly love worship on Sunday and I want them to follow what they believe, and I want to be allowed say that is not in scripture.

You are certainly welcome to say whatever you like (within the site rules). However, it sounds like you also want to be immune from disagreement.

 

[breno785au]

I use this site as a help to my study, to tell what I have learned, and to hear what others think. It guides my reasoning so my personal faith is helped. I do not use it to be critical. What I would like is to freely be allowed to say I do not think worshiping on Sunday is following scripture. The people I dearly love worship on Sunday and I want them to follow what they believe, and I want to be allowed say that is not in scripture.

Our current model of congregating is not really in scripture either but we still do it.

 

[Blik]

You are certainly welcome to say whatever you like (within the site rules). However, it sounds like you also want to be immune from disagreement.

I am making the wrong impression then. When I am disagreed with I get out my bible and study tools and go to work.

 

[Blik]

Our current model of congregating is not really in scripture either but we still do it.

There is a BIG difference between disobedience and doing your own thing. God tells us to do it this way and we say no, I will do it my own way cause that is how others do it and how Mama did it.

 

[Dino246]

There is a BIG difference between disobedience and doing your own thing. God tells us to do it this way and we say no, I will do it my own way cause that is how others do it and how Mama did it.

Alright... how did God tell the Church (not Israel) to worship?

 

[Blik]

Alright... how did God tell the Church (not Israel) to worship?

Under the new covenant the OT guidelines to fleshly obedience was wiped out, but God was not changed at all. The spirit of the Lord remained the same. The new covenant did not change that God had made the seventh day holy with a special blessing.

3Then God blessed the seventh day and made it holy, because on it he rested from all the work of creating that he had done.

 

[Dino246]

Under the new covenant the OT guidelines to fleshly obedience was wiped out, but God was not changed at all. The spirit of the Lord remained the same. The new covenant did not change that God had made the seventh day holy with a special blessing.

3Then God blessed the seventh day and made it holy, because on it he rested from all the work of creating that he had done.

We agree on that, yet it doesn't answer my question.

 

[Nehemiah6]

What I would like is to freely be allowed to say I do not think worshiping on Sunday is following scripture.

You cannot say that in good conscience, because the early Christians in the apostolic churches worshiped on the first day of the week (the eighth day). Read your New Testament again (and very carefully). And that practice has continued for over 2,000 years. It is only since the 19th century that Sabbatarianism has come into play, and only in certain groups which mix the Old and New covenants.

Evidently you cannot see the tremendous difference that the death, burial, and resurrection of Christ made to man's relationship with God. Neither can you see the significance of the LORD'S DAY (which is the first day of the week and the morrow after the sabbath). Neither can you see the significance of the fulfillment of the feasts of First Fruits and Pentecost. Both were on the first day of the week.

Furthermore, the Torah makes it perfectly clear that the 7th day sabbath was given to Israel under the Old Covenant. But under the New Covenant sabbaths are shadows of the reality -- which is Christ.

Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath [days]: Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ. (Col 2:16,17)

This tells us that the Lord Jesus Christ Himself is our Sabbath -- our eternal rest. We rest in Him because He has done everything for us, and we have entered into God's rest.

For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world. For he spake in a certain place of the seventh day on this wise, And God did rest the seventh day from all his works. And in this place again, If they shall enter into my rest. (Heb 4:3-5).

When Jesus said that He was Lord of the Sabbath, He had all these things in mind already. As Lord of the Sabbath, it is He who determines the Christian Sabbath.

 

[UnitedWithChrist]

In a similar vein related to the first day of the week, which I associate with the eighth day:

The number “8” has to do with the new creation, and so does the number “50”….which is (7 X 7) + 1.

Jesus worked 6 days (symbolically) in his ministry, and finished his work on the cross on Friday (“It is finished”) then rested in the grave on Saturday. He was resurrected on Sunday (day 8) as a new creation (in terms of his resurrection body; not in terms of being YHVH).

Jesus is the BEGINNING of the new creation; the firstfruits (I Corinthians 15, Revelation 3:1).

Hebrew children were physically circumcised on the 8th day, which is a physical type of the new birth or the new creation or being born again (Leviticus 12:3).

On the first Pentecost after the Exodus (which is calculated as the 50th day from the weekly Sabbath during Passover), the Israelites received the Law on Mount Sinai (by Jewish tradition), and became a new physical nation that typified the Church.

On the first Pentecost after the resurrection of Jesus, the Holy Spirit was received by the apostolic church, and the Church became a new spiritual nation; a kingdom of priests (Acts 2).

On the land sabbath year, at the end of the year, all debt was forgiven, and there is a new beginning starting in the eighth year (Deuteronomy 15:1-6). This is symbolic of Jesus and the forgiveness of our sins to begin a new life.

On the Jubilee year, which is the 50th year in the Israelite calendar system, all debts were forgiven and the land was returned back to the original property owners; in essence a new life and a restoration (Leviticus 25:8-15). For the believer, this relates to the liberation that we receive in Jesus, where our spiritual debt is forgiven.

So, these things point toward the new creation, which starts with Jesus’ resurrection. For us, regeneration (being born again) is the beginning of our new life. Ultimately, the new creation reaches fulfillment in a New Heavens and New Earth/New Jerusalem (Revelation 21-22).

The believer has already entered into the new creation, by being united through faith with Jesus. Due to this union, his resurrection, which is our resurrection too, makes us into a new creation. The new creation will be fully consummated upon Jesus' return, but believers are experiencing it, even now. See 2 Cor 5:17, Romans 6:1-14, Hebrews 6:4-6 in relation to this. Romans 4:25 indicates that believers are vindicated along with Christ in his resurrection, and this identifies believers with his resurrection. When he was resurrected, the believer was resurrected too.

I believe this is the theological justification for the day of worship being on Sunday rather than the Jewish Sabbath. And, I believe that Judaizers are trying to live under the old, Mosaic economy rather than stepping into the new creation in Christ.

 

[iamsoandso]

120 jubilees go by.

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

You cannot say that in good conscience, because the early Christians in the apostolic churches worshiped on the first day of the week (the eighth day). Read your New Testament again (and very carefully). And that practice has continued for over 2,000 years. It is only since the 19th century that Sabbatarianism has come into play, and only in certain groups which mix the Old and New covenants.

Evidently you cannot see the tremendous difference that the death, burial, and resurrection of Christ made to man's relationship with God. Neither can you see the significance of the LORD'S DAY (which is the first day of the week and the morrow after the sabbath). Neither can you see the significance of the fulfillment of the feasts of First Fruits and Pentecost. Both were on the first day of the week.

While I agree with your thoughts regarding Firstfruit and Pentecost both being on the first day of the week (per Leviticus 23) [keep this thought in mind as you read the rest of this post ], I would also say that I do not believe there is such a thing as "the Christian Sabbath" (I believe, for example, that Hebrews 4:9 is speaking of "the seventh Day" [i.e. 'The Last Day'] so to speak [aka, the future EARTHLY MK; note: NOT "our Rapture!)]); and this is because there are really only a couple of places that refer to "the first of the week" (aside from His resurrection appearances on Firstfruit)...

One that I can think of is 1 Corinthians 16:2 which has "week/sabbath" in the SINGULAR (and means "at the beginning of [each] week" in reference to laying aside the collections), but the other one I can think of in Acts 20:7 has it as "first of the weeks [PLURAL]" (which I believe is in reference to a very specific "time of year" rather than to be suggesting this is a mandate for when they were to meet on a regular wkly basis... if that makes sense).

As Lord of the Sabbath, it is He who determines the Christian Sabbath.

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

^ EDIT: again, as I have mentioned before (but just to be clear), I do not believe we/"the Church which is His body" are to "observe" the Sabbath [7th day sabbath] (see Exodus 31:13,17 though , regarding Israel... "it [the sabbath] is a SIGN between Me and the children of Israel for ever")

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

Exodus 31:13,16-17 -

12 And the LORD said to Moses, 13 “Tell the Israelites, ‘Surely you must keep My Sabbaths, for this will be a sign between Me and you for the generations to come, so that you may know that I am the LORD who sanctifies you.
[…]
16 The Israelites must keep the Sabbath, celebrating it as a lasting covenant for the generations to come. 17 It is a sign between Me and the Israelites forever; for in six days the LORD made the heavens and the earth, but on the seventh day He rested and was refreshed.’”

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

...and speaking of the "in six days" and "on the seventh day" thought, mentioned in my post above ^ , consider this:


Philippians 2:15's "...among whom you [the Church which is His body] SHINE AS LIGHTS in the world."

https://biblehub.com/text/philippians/2-15.htm


[that's what I call "understanding Church history" ]

 

[Locoponydirtman]

I use this site as a help to my study, to tell what I have learned, and to hear what others think. It guides my reasoning so my personal faith is helped. I do not use it to be critical. What I would like is to freely be allowed to say I do not think worshiping on Sunday is following scripture. The people I dearly love worship on Sunday and I want them to follow what they believe, and I want to be allowed say that is not in scripture.

Romans 14:5-12 King James Version (KJV)
5 One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.

6 He that regardeth the day, regardeth it unto the Lord; and he that regardeth not the day, to the Lord he doth not regard it. He that eateth, eateth to the Lord, for he giveth God thanks; and he that eateth not, to the Lord he eateth not, and giveth God thanks.

7 For none of us liveth to himself, and no man dieth to himself.

8 For whether we live, we live unto the Lord; and whether we die, we die unto the Lord: whether we live therefore, or die, we are the Lord's.

9 For to this end Christ both died, and rose, and revived, that he might be Lord both of the dead and living.

10 But why dost thou judge thy brother? or why dost thou set at nought thy brother? for we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ.

Therefore no one is to act as your judge in regard to food or drink or in respect to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath day— things which are a mere shadow of what is to come; but the substance belongs to Christ.
Colossians 2:16‭-‬17 NASB

 

[Locoponydirtman]

Mere shadow of Christ to come.

 

[UnitedWithChrist]

Romans 14:5-12 King James Version (KJV)
5 One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.

6 He that regardeth the day, regardeth it unto the Lord; and he that regardeth not the day, to the Lord he doth not regard it. He that eateth, eateth to the Lord, for he giveth God thanks; and he that eateth not, to the Lord he eateth not, and giveth God thanks.

7 For none of us liveth to himself, and no man dieth to himself.

8 For whether we live, we live unto the Lord; and whether we die, we die unto the Lord: whether we live therefore, or die, we are the Lord's.

9 For to this end Christ both died, and rose, and revived, that he might be Lord both of the dead and living.

10 But why dost thou judge thy brother? or why dost thou set at nought thy brother? for we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ.

Therefore no one is to act as your judge in regard to food or drink or in respect to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath day— things which are a mere shadow of what is to come; but the substance belongs to Christ.
Colossians 2:16‭-‬17 NASB

You acknowledge those Scriptures apply to the day of worship. Many Sabbathkeepers won't acknowledge this. They think these Scriptures are talking about fast days or some other days. Seventh Day Adventists, in particular, have spent tons of hours and effort supporting their idea that Col 2:16-17 is only talking about annual festivals and new moons.

 

[Locoponydirtman]

You cannot say that in good conscience, because the early Christians in the apostolic churches worshiped on the first day of the week (the eighth day). Read your New Testament again (and very carefully). And that practice has continued for over 2,000 years. It is only since the 19th century that Sabbatarianism has come into play, and only in certain groups which mix the Old and New covenants.

Evidently you cannot see the tremendous difference that the death, burial, and resurrection of Christ made to man's relationship with God. Neither can you see the significance of the LORD'S DAY (which is the first day of the week and the morrow after the sabbath). Neither can you see the significance of the fulfillment of the feasts of First Fruits and Pentecost. Both were on the first day of the week.

Furthermore, the Torah makes it perfectly clear that the 7th day sabbath was given to Israel under the Old Covenant. But under the New Covenant sabbaths are shadows of the reality -- which is Christ.

Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath [days]: Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ. (Col 2:16,17)

This tells us that the Lord Jesus Christ Himself is our Sabbath -- our eternal rest. We rest in Him because He has done everything for us, and we have entered into God's rest.

For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world. For he spake in a certain place of the seventh day on this wise, And God did rest the seventh day from all his works. And in this place again, If they shall enter into my rest. (Heb 4:3-5).

When Jesus said that He was Lord of the Sabbath, He had all these things in mind already. As Lord of the Sabbath, it is He who determines the Christian Sabbath.

Folks bound by the curse of the law are just that bound, not free in the law of perfect liberty in Christ who is the substance.

 

[Locoponydirtman]

You acknowledge those Scriptures apply to the day of worship. Many Sabbathkeepers won't acknowledge this. They think these Scriptures are talking about fast days or some other days. Seventh Day Adventists, in particular, have spent tons of hours and effort supporting their idea that Col 2:16-17 is only talking about annual festivals and new moons.

Yes, they apply to the day of worship, and to new moons, and celebrations, and holidays. We who love the Lord honor the Lord on what ever day we honor him.