I would also add where does it forbid worship on any day! This isn't what we are talking about. I it is in understanding what is written.
Understanding Church History
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Would you recommend Foxes book of matyrs? As a church history book?
I dont know if this book you me tioned would be ok for a church library...church history is more for seminaries and bible colleges. How many pages is it?
Does this book mention anything about Quakers? Im starting to research a bit about them, went to a meeting of friends one Sunday. Am not sure what to make of their beliefs yet.
It is part of the mix .Why have some not moved to the first day of the week the new era?
The bible says the first era of sabbaths not assigned to one day was on the last day and moved to the first day. Ressurection day.
The new era ceremonial sabbaths This is not to be mistaken with the non ceremonial rest we have when not hardening our hearts but mix faith as he applies his daily will .The worship part not the shadow. (no judgment for shadows) .
This is a ceremonial rest Not the daily rest we do experience when we do hear His voice and not harden our hearts. Hebrew 4 but work with Christ who works to give us rest all day long .The worship.
Labeled for Saturn? Astrology?
The Sun did not come into display until the forth day, Wednesday. It would seem (let there be light) was in respect the presence of His glory the first three days. Just as it will in the new order.
Many cannot even agree what constitutes the church as the eternal bride. Through scripture the one book of God's law we learn their customs and how they oppose his . .
Never the other way around.( upside down) It is what the unbelieving Jew performed making the written traditions of God without effect .
Mark 7:13 Making the word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye.
Viewing church history from the private interpretations of men (us) is not wise. Turning things upside down. Christ defines the "us" in "him" and who has went out from that exclusive us.
Sola scriptura is the law by which we can look at history and find the church or bride of Christ. Abel in whom God had mercy and grace on is the first Christian martyr ..The foundation of the church . For by grace according to the work of Christ's faith through his three day labor of love.
Understanding the oral traditions as customs have nothing to do with interpreting scripture. Scripture has been made to no effect through what some call customs or hair styles or what kind of clothing.
I haven't read Foxes book of martyrs yet. I don't think Needham's 2000 Years of Christ's Power is too much for the normal church member. In fact, I believe they would enjoy it.
I can't tell you if they mention the Quakers as I've only finished the first two volumes. They would likely show up in the fourth volume.
There are some simpler history books written by Stephen Nichols that you might consider. They would be more accessible than Needham's books for someone who doesn't want to invest the time in reading 1500+ pages.
Not sure what you mean, but in regards to the four groups, I would rank them as follows in terms of credibility:
1. Amillennialism
2. Historic Premillenialism
3. Postmillenialism
4. Premillennial dispensationalism
My view is that most hold their millennial view as a result of indoctrination and not because they've studied it out carefully.
I have intimate familiarity with the theologies of those who make such claims...that Christianity is a perversion of the true faith, which they claim to represent.
Christians do not worship the sun. They worship Jesus who rose on the eighth day. Additionally, he met with his disciples on the eighth day (first day of the week) on at least two occasions. If Sabbath-keeping is continued as a requirement, then this would be the perfect time for him to meet with them on Saturday, to prove that it was a continuing requirement. Yet, he did not do this.
The phrase "Torah observers" is a problematic one. If you consider that Torah refers to God's instructions, then all believers should be observing all of God's instructions for THEM. But, it is obvious that the Mosaic Law is done away with, so the Mosaic Law, as a whole, does not apply to them. However, they still want to please their Lord, because of the grace he has given them, and because they have been united with Jesus, whose spiritual healing continues to permeate their lives. Therefore they will want to obey and serve the LORD.
So, if you mean to say that believers want to obey God, because they are being conformed to the image of Jesus, then I'm ok with that. If you are claiming they need to follow the Mosaic Law, then this is called Judaizing.
Now, some elements within the Mosaic Law reflect the image of God in man...of course the believer would be reflecting obedience to those laws progressively over time, because they are being transformed into the image of Christ. Days and diets are not part of those issues, but are ceremonial issues.
I don't subscribe to the conspiracy theories that "Torah Observers" believe, though. I am well acquainted with some of them. Some claim that Simon Magus of Acts 8 started the Roman Catholic Church, and that Simon Magus was confused with Simon Peter. Their views are basically legends. Other views are related to Alexander Hislop's excessive anti-Roman Catholicism. As I have said, I don't believe in Roman Catholic teachings as a whole, and consider them an apostate church, but much of what's taught in those sorts of circles concerning Roman Catholicism involves National Enquirer-level reasoning ability.
I'd rather sit on the toilet reading National Enquirers than studying Judaizer materials. It has the same level of credibility with me.
You aren't using the pagan designations of the names of the days of the week, SURELY, to decide on your day of worship! We are worshiping on Sunday because at the time of Christ that is when most people worshiped. When pagans became Christians they didn't change the day they worshiped because they changed gods.
And of all the stupid ideas, it is most stupid to decide that worshiping on Sunday today is worshiping the sun.
To me all I can say is we should come to understand the Bible first and understand what circumcised of the heart and let no say what God has made clean is unclean really means. Then come to understand basic doctrinal principal differences in contest with history.
For example back in the days of the apostles, women had next to zero rights and a woman could not divorce her husband. Now in many states 1 party divorces can be and are granted if the other agrees or not. Wives can divorce their husbands with or without his permission. Does this make him the adulterer?
Since being reborn happens at or after the age of accountability we should decide what church to join, of our own free will. Through investigation, prayer and meditation as not to become sucked into a cult or pseudo christian organization like the Latter Day Saints. We need to test their teachings in accordance with the word of God through discernment with the help of the Holy Spirit.
Money, power, pride. Ego, fame and fortune remain huge temptations for the called of God to veer off track. Remember the Devil even tried to use the word to tempt Jesus. But The Lord even used a murdering Pharisee to become the greatest apostle to the gentiles. Never worship the church or it's leaders. They will most often let us down and quite often try to deceive us into following the twisted path of self righteousness rather than stay on he straight and narrow path of Grace and faith in the Lord.
I'm glad you recognize that... so you have no reason to criticize anyone for worshiping on Sunday.
How do you propose to learn about 2000 years of church history from a book that ended within forty years of the founding of the church?
Please read what I wrote carefully. It is stupid to talk about worshipping the sun, but that is what Sabbatarians come up with.
Oh ok I guess its a year a page or something like that.
You havent read Foxes book of matyrs? thats a classic everyone ought to read. Its probably been updated to include up to the last century too.
There was a Readers Digest version of church history called After JEsus the triumph of christianity but havent got round to reading that one yet. I have that in the church library.
The Quakers appeared around the seventeenth century, the person who led it was George Fox. Not related to John Foxe who wrote the book of matyrs.
Actually I read it a really long time ago. Maybe 40 years ago before I was saved. I can’t remember if I read it all though. So I didn’t count it because my memory is vague.
If I remember right, it was written in the vein of accusing Roman Catholics of being persecutors while ignoring Protestant persecutions.
I find it similar to the Jews of Jesus’ day that said if they had been alive in the days of the prophets, they wouldn’t have done the wicked things their ancestors did.
People are so naive about their own capacity to be deceived. Some writers of church history realize this, and some do not. This is another plus with regards to church history. We see the faults of great men of God. Some will realize that they are susceptible to the same foibles while others will vilify them and claim they were never believers.
The extreme view are the cults who rewrite church history to place their alleged ancestors into a parallel organization that was persecuted by other wicked Christians. Sabbathkeepers are the ones I’ve seen doing this a lot.
If I remember right, it was written in the vein of accusing Roman Catholics of being persecutors while ignoring Protestant persecutions.
I find it similar to the Jews of Jesus’ day that said if they had been alive in the days of the prophets, they wouldn’t have done the wicked things their ancestors did.
People are so naive about their own capacity to be deceived. Some writers of church history realize this, and some do not. This is another plus with regards to church history. We see the faults of great men of God. Some will realize that they are susceptible to the same foibles while others will vilify them and claim they were never believers.
The extreme view are the cults who rewrite church history to place their alleged ancestors into a parallel organization that was persecuted by other wicked Christians. Sabbathkeepers are the ones I’ve seen doing this a lot.
You use it as it is written (sola scriptura) the spirit as the light of His word. the spirit of faith. . .not seen neeed to search for "us" not the other way around. The us is hid in parables. Not the Popes (daysman) way. He decides the us creating his own kind of saints .patron(3500 and rising) Jesus would not stand in that place but warns of those who say we do need a man to teach us . Only God alone not seen is the good teacher the reforming, restoring authority in any generation. We are to call no man on earth teacher. . . one is in heaven. .
You use it as it is written (sola scriptura) the spirit as the light of His word. The as Christ's Spirit of faith. . .not seen needed to search for "us" not the other way around. The us is hid in parables. Not the Popes (daysman) way. He decides the us creating his own kind of saints .patron(3500 and rising) Jesus would not stand in that place but warns of those who say we do need a man to teach us . Only God alone not seen is the good teacher the reforming, restoring authority in any generation. We are to call no man on earth teacher. . . one is in heaven. .
You would do well to learn how to write coherent sentences in English. Your sentence structure is atrocious.
You go ahead and ask God to teach you about church history, and I strongly suspect that if He answers at all (which, in your world, won't happen anyway), He will tell you to read a man-made book on the subject.
The fact that the Holy Spirit teaches doesn't negate the value of teachers within the Church. The Ethiopian eunuch needed to have the passages in Isaiah explained to him (Acts 8:26-40). The Church is given teachers for a purpose (Ephesians 4). It is incumbent upon the believer to evaluate the reasonableness of the teacher, though, and to place himself under sound teachers, not weirdos.
That is why I stay away from certain genres of Christianity, particularly charismatics/Pentecostals, Word of Faith, Judaizers, hypergrace (Free Grace Movement) or any cultic group that denies core elements of Christianity such as : 1) the full deity and full humanity of Jesus Christ (Jesus is God and glorified man) 2) monotheism or the belief in one God 3) the doctrine of the Trinity 4) justification by grace alone through faith alone in Jesus Christ alone 5) the inspiration and sole authority of Scripture as the rule of faith 6) substitutionary atonement of Jesus Christ on the cross (Jesus died in the place of the believer) 7) original sin 8) virgin birth of Jesus 9) bodily resurrection of Jesus and 10) eternal reward of the righteous and eternal punishment of the unrighteous.