The Tribulation and the Church, WHEN?

[GaryA]

Very good point Jackson,

In fact, in addition to missing the 2 witnesses and the ac and his mark, we would have also missed the seals, trumpets and bowl judgments, which is the coming wrath of God, the worst time in the history of the world. To my knowledge, there is no record of the oceans and fresh water already having been turned into literal blood. And when was a third of the earth burned up and a third of the creatures in the sea killed? What happened to the greatest earthquake to hit the earth where the cities of the nations collapse?

The Trumpet events and Wrath of God are post-trib. The Seals are spread out across a ~2000 year period of time including the Great Tribulation, Two Witnesses, and Second Coming (which includes the Wrath Of God).

 

[GaryA]

I have two question's for everybody? How many here have actually listened to Dr.Martin's 50 minute presentation? Secondly, was there anything he said that is contrary to Scripture? Thank You!

IN GOD THE SON,
bluto

I have not listened to it -- largely because I am concerned about data usage (without WIFI). For now, I am limiting how much video I watch.

Perhaps at a later time...

 

[GaryA]

I stumbled into this thread and honestly thought I was in some sort of amateur comedy hour show............WOW!

Great Tribulation was in the 1st century or started in the 1st century........yeahhhhhhh ok..................shakes head......!!

My friend -- I think it is wonderful that you understand that the Lord is returning exactly one time only and that it is post-trib. However, you need to increase your understanding of the End Times Scenario.

Go read the 'Truth' page on my website. Then, take a look at the pages in the 'Study' section of the site.

I pray that the Lord will increase your understanding of the End Times Scenario - if you will let Him...

This is the proper order of events:

Great Tribulation
Two Witnesses
Return of Christ
Wrath of God
1000-year reign of Christ

 

[bluto]

You will never be able to properly understand the End Times Scenario until you are willing to let go of the idea that the Great Tribulation is a seven-year period of time.

The idea comes from a severe misinterpretation of Daniel 9:24-27.

Well, if the tribulation is not seven years because of a "severe" misinterpretation of Daniel 9:24-27 I would greatly appreciate it if you would give us your outline as to why it is not a seven year period? Go ahead, I'll listen. And btw, in the presentation by Dr. Martin that I posted he "specifically"outlined in great detail how the tribulation is sevfen years, did you by chance listen to it?

IN GOD THE SON,
bluto

 

[GaryA]

What does Martin present that I need that is not available in the Bible?

The point includes this;...it seems many have the time to read books but, have not time for the Bible...I don't understand the priority.

Perhaps it is much easier to read books and assume that whatever they say is the truth - without doing your own in-depth study of the scriptures to verify...

 

[GaryA]

Please, look at the question(s) the disciples ask Jesus at Matthew 24:3, "Tell us "WHEN" will these things be, and what will be and what will be the sign of Your coming and the end of the age? When He says "this generation" He is referring to the generation that is existing at the time of His coming and the end of the age.

The Lord's answer to the questions of the disciples tells them much more than they asked for. His explanation actually covers what will happen over the next ~2000 years.

 

[bluto]

The Lord's answer to the questions of the disciples tells them much more than they asked for. His explanation actually covers what will happen over the next ~2000 years.

I agree! Over the next 2000 years and perhaps longer?

IN GOD THE SON,
bluto

 

[GaryA]

Well let me put your question this way. Do you understand everything that is written in the Bible? Nothing is more important than the Bible but the Bible does teach we are to have teachers etc. to help us understand things. Even the Apostle Peter said that some of the tings that the Apostle Paul writes are hard to understand.

And another thing, are you awar of 1 Corinthians 11:19? "For there must also be factions among you, in order tha those who are approved may have bcome evident among you." In other words, divisions or differences of opinions serve to come to the truth.

IN GOD THE SON,
bluto

Having teachers can be a good thing --- as long as they are not put on a pedestal by the student and the student does their own studies to verify what they have heard/read.

Acts 17:11

 

[GaryA]

Test all persons advice with scripture.

Yes.

 

[GaryA]

This is the proper order of events:

Great Tribulation
Two Witnesses
Return of Christ
Wrath of God
1000-year reign of Christ

Two Witnesses / Trumpet events

(oops - left out the Trumpets)

 

[GaryA]

It would be grammatically incorrect for Jesus to identify that generation as being the one where those signs take place and then say that the generation that He was currently living in is that generation.

Jesus said to them that the things He is telling them would begin to occur before the current generation dies out.

Look at the Greek.

From the time that Jesus quoted Daniel regarding the abomination being set up to the time that the temple was destroyed, we have no fulfillment of the abomination being set up, ...

Actually, we do...

The AoD occurred in 167 B.C.

The reference to it by Matthew and Mark in the Olivet Discourse was [seemingly] for the purpose of "encoding" it ( * - see below ), whereas Luke simply and bluntly recorded it in a very straight-forward way.

(*) - which is why these statements were made:

Matthew 24:15

( whoso readeth, let him understand )

Mark 13:14

( Let him that readeth understand, )

 

[GaryA]

Make that 3 1/2 years for the Great Tribulation and the previous 3 1/2 years for the Tribulation (corresponding to the reign of the Antichrist) for a total of seven years.

One *week* in Daniel 9 is one shabua (heptad or seven) and it is equal to seven years. Seventy weeks are equal to 490 years, of which 483 years have been fulfilled until the crucifixion of Christ. The remaining seven years will be in the future.

Okay - my mistake. Sorry. I often forget that people sometimes think of one-half of the 7 years as being the actual GT.

There is no gap in the 70 weeks of Daniel - all of which have already 100% come to pass - in a single unbroken stretch of time.

 

[GaryA]

1260 days/30 = 42 months = 3 1/2 years = time (1 yr) + times (2 yrs) + half a time (6 mths)

Every place in the scriptures where the '1260' is mentioned is not referring to the same thing as all of the others. Also (I believe), some are actual days and others are in years.

 

[GaryA]

Well, if the tribulation is not seven years because of a "severe" misinterpretation of Daniel 9:24-27 I would greatly appreciate it if you would give us your outline as to why it is not a seven year period?

Go read the 'Seventy Weeks' page on my web site.

 

[GaryA]

Really, a kid could figure this out? Would not a big kid also want to ask you when did the end of the age occur and how come nobody saw the Son of Man coming on the clouds with His angels etc. at Matthew 24:29-31? How come nobody in that generation reported these events?

IN GOD THE SON,
bluto

Most people believe that all of the events-and-details recorded in the Olivet Discourse and in Revelation occurr within a short period of time (i.e. - 7 years). Some believe it all happened circa 70 A.D. while others believe it all happens at some point in the future.

Both groups are wrong.

The aforementioned events-and-details in the aforementioned scripture are actually [roughly] spread out over the entire time span between the First Coming of Christ and the Second Coming of Christ.

 

[GaryA]

It is talking about more than just "the very end"...

 

[GaryA]

If you will pay very close attention to all of the details of End Times prophecy -- you should arrive at the following conclusions:

~ There is no possible way that all of it happened circa 70 A.D. (some of it has yet to occur)

~ The end of the GT must be in the future. (the immediately-after-the-GT stuff has yet to occur)

~ The 'Great Tribulation' had to have started in 70 A.D. (this takes a closer look at scripture)

~ Some of it actually describes things that have happened since it was written.

What is the total-sum conclusion?

The Great Tribulation (as defined by Jesus in Matthew 24) began in 70 A.D. and will end in the future.

This is the ONLY conclusion that fits ALL of the End Times prophetic scripture.

 

[GaryA]

There are some pages in the 'Study' section of my web site that may help you to understand why I say these things. They are the culmination of much study.

 

[GaryA]

Okay - my mistake. Sorry. I often forget that people sometimes think of one-half of the 7 years as being the actual GT.

There is no gap in the 70 weeks of Daniel - all of which have already 100% come to pass - in a single unbroken stretch of time.

HAHAHA

I meant to say 'span of 490 years'.

 

[GaryA]

"shameless plug":

If you visit my website, be sure to check out my Bible Search feature and let me know what you think...