The Tribulation and the Church, WHEN?

[garee]

So what's your point? I mean are not the Gentiles included at the end/consumation of the age? I'm not arguing with you but just asking what you mean?

IN GOD THE SON,
bluto

I would offer.. Yes, he was speaking of the generation of Christ as that not seen in respect to the righteous generation. Those who will not be found with a righteousness of their own self. . .one as a gift, one imputed to a work of another that works in them to do the will of the father. , the second Adam, "Christ" . . . . . . as in as many as the father gave and not the evil generation un-converted natural man after Adam in who all die. Not that fleshly seed.

 

[Ahwatukee]

It is generally thought that Christ was referring to the ....generation present.... when Israel was re-established as a nation. (1948). Those would be 70 years old now.
Some scripture refers too such..... but vague.

That belief is false! As I said and as scripture states, it is those signs that Jesus listed that identify the generation of which He was speaking. Furthermore, it has nothing to do with Israel becoming a nation, for the question was what will be the signs of your coming and the end of the age. Those signs are what identifies that last generation, which were not fulfilled during the generation that Jesus was living in. As I said, one of them is the seven year covenant which has not taken place, as well as the setting up of the abomination in the Holy place within the temple. The problem is that you are attempting to find fulfillment without fulfillment.

 

[Dino246]

I would offer.. Yes, he was speaking of the generation of Christ as that not seen in respect to the righteous generation. Those who will not be found with a righteousness of their own self. . .one as a gift, one imputed to a work of another that works in them to do the will of the father. , the second Adam, "Christ" . . . . . . as in as many as the father gave and not the evil generation un-converted natural man after Adam in who all die. Not that fleshly seed.

Garee, with respect, it would really help if you learned how to write coherent and concise English sentences. There isn't a single one in your post.

 

[KJV1611]

@KJV1611 can you elaborate on the disagree, I would be interested in your perspective.

Many many many reasons lol. Read the reply to Ahwatukee for one. Then entire book of Joel for another.

Then you have Amos

Amo 8:2 (KJV) And he said, Amos, what seest thou? And I said, A basket of summer fruit. Then said the LORD unto me, The end is come upon my people of Israel; I will not again pass by them any more.

A basket of summer fruits and the end of Israel... where else do see that? In Matthew.

Mat 24:32 Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is nigh:

Mat 24:33 So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors.

Mat 24:34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled

This only a small number of the reasons. There are many many more.

 

[Ahwatukee]

Jesus also said:

Mat 10:23 (KJV) But when they persecute you in this city, flee ye into another: for verily I say unto you, Ye shall not have gone over the cities of Israel, till the Son of man be come.

Above is ample evidence that “this generation” means that generation.

No, that is not proof either. Many try to use this as a means to show that He would be coming back in the same generation from which He was living in. How do you know that Jesus wasn't talking about His resurrection? It would have been true that the disciples would not have gone throughout the cities of Israel before the Son of man was resurrected. Did you ever think about that?

"Truly I tell you, this generation will not pass away until all these things have happened.

To be clear, I believe that we are living in that last generation, but the main events that Jesus spoke of have not taken yet place. Once the church is removed, then those signs will take place.

 

[GaryA]

Hey --- by any chance is a 'lucky bag' the UK the equivalent of a 'cracker jack box' in the USA?

in the UK

 

[Ahwatukee]

Many many many reasons lol. Read the reply to Ahwatukee for one. Then entire book of Joel for another.

Then you have Amos

Amo 8:2 (KJV) And he said, Amos, what seest thou? And I said, A basket of summer fruit. Then said the LORD unto me, The end is come upon my people of Israel; I will not again pass by them any more.

A basket of summer fruits and the end of Israel... where else do see that? In Matthew.

Mat 24:32 Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is nigh:

Though the fig tree was used figuratively to represent Israel, the scripture above is not referring to Israel. In support of this let's look at Luke's version of the same scripture:

"Look at the fig tree and all the trees. When they sprout leaves, you can see for yourselves and know that summer is near."

The mention of "all the trees" would demonstrate that the parable is a simple comparison:

The fig tree and all trees blossoming = summer is near

So also, when you see these things happening = The end of the age

Although Israel becoming a nation is definitely prophetic, the verse Has nothing to do with Israel becoming a nation. It was just assumed because of the use of the fig tree. But as I pointed out the blossoming of all the trees is mentioned as well.

Mat 24:33 So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors.

Until you have the first part of the verse fulfilled, then you can't have fulfillment of the last part of the verse. Therefore, since "this generation" is dependent upon those signs and they haven't happened yet, then the generation that Jesus spoke of could not be the one He was living in.

 

[Ahwatukee]

Many many many reasons lol. Read the reply to Ahwatukee for one. Then entire book of Joel for another.

Then you have Amos

Amo 8:2 (KJV) And he said, Amos, what seest thou? And I said, A basket of summer fruit. Then said the LORD unto me, The end is come upon my people of Israel; I will not again pass by them any more.

A basket of summer fruits and the end of Israel... where else do see that? In Matthew.

Mat 24:32 Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is nigh:

Mat 24:33 So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors.

Mat 24:34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled

This only a small number of the reasons. There are many many more.

Further more and regarding your claim that Matt.24:32 consider the following:

"In the morning, as Jesus was returning to the city, He was hungry. Seeing a fig tree by the road, He went up to it but found nothing on it except leaves. “May you never bear fruit again!” He said. And immediately the tree withered."

Is the above also a parable about Israel just because the fig tree is used? Or is it just a teaching on what we can accomplish having faith?

 

[UnderGrace]

Jesus also said:

Mat 10:23 (KJV) But when they persecute you in this city, flee ye into another: for verily I say unto you, Ye shall not have gone over the cities of Israel, till the Son of man be come.

Above is ample evidence that “this generation” means that generation.

Thanks I missed your post.

 

[GaryA]

Tribulation is only 7 years

If It is start in 70 AD, than It has been 1949 years and we still able to buy and sale. In the tribulation only the one that take the mark of the beast able to buy and sale

Why do [some] people [seem to] think that every-little-thing related to the Great Tribulation in the scriptures becomes-in-existance at the very first second of it?

 

[azamzimtoti]

(Mat 24:2 And He said to them, “Do you not see all these things? Truly I say to you, not one stone here will be left upon another, which will not be torn down.” )

(Mat 24:3 As He was sitting on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to Him privately, saying, “Tell us, when will these things happen, and what will be the sign of Your coming, and of the end of the age?” )

Look, Jesus associated the destruction of the 1st century temple with his coming after which the disciple asked when shall these things be?

When?

(Mat 24:34 “Truly I say to you, this generation will not pass away until all these things take place. )

The temple was destroyed in the generation that he lived in (this generation) therefor his coming was directly related to the time of the 1st century temple destruction.

A kid could figure this out.

 

[UnderGrace]

Though the fig tree was used figuratively to represent Israel, the scripture above is not referring to Israel. In support of this let's look at Luke's version of the same scripture:

"Look at the fig tree and all the trees. When they sprout leaves, you can see for yourselves and know that summer is near."

The mention of "all the trees" would demonstrate that the parable is a simple comparison:

The fig tree and all trees blossoming = summer is near

So also, when you see these things happening = The end of the age

Although Israel becoming a nation is definitely prophetic, the verse Has nothing to do with Israel becoming a nation. It was just assumed because of the use of the fig tree. But as I pointed out the blossoming of all the trees is mentioned as well.




Until you have the first part of the verse fulfilled, then you can't have fulfillment of the last part of the verse. Therefore, since "this generation" is dependent upon those signs and they haven't happened yet, then the generation that Jesus spoke of could not be the one He was living in.

Can it not just be a time stamp... an indicator using the signs of nature.

The Reformation Study Bible notes, "There does not seem to be any specific symbolic sense to this 'fig tree' (such as the re-emergence of the nation of Israel), especially since the parallel passage (Luke 21:29) adds 'and all the trees.' Jesus is simply saying that just as there are signs of what is to come in the natural realm, so it is in the spiritual." With reference to "this generation", it is noted that, "For the event of the destruction of the temple, the phrase refers to Jesus' own generation."[8]

 

[azamzimtoti]

Let there be no doubt about the statements Jesus made about "this generation" it meant the generation he lived in and that hears him:

(Mat 11:16 But to what shall I compare this generation? It is like children sitting in the market places, who call out to the other children)

(Mat 11:17 and say, ‘We played the flute for you, and you did not dance; we sang a dirge, and you did not mourn.’ )

 

[GaryA]

Not over yet but It only 7 years

If you say start at AD 70, It is away more than 7 years

You will never be able to properly understand the End Times Scenario until you are willing to let go of the idea that the Great Tribulation is a seven-year period of time.

The idea comes from a severe misinterpretation of Daniel 9:24-27.

 

[GaryA]

Aiight so, its gonna be a time such as has not been since the beginning of the world nor shall ever be..... thats what Jesus said, and its lasted for ..... quite a long time?

We've had some GOOD TIMES and some BAD TIMES during this 2000y history. This aint the great tribulation yet, dont fool yourselves!

Try comparing it to the rest of human history -- keeping in mind that it is not over yet and the worst is yet to come...

 

[Nehemiah6]

The Reformation Study Bible notes...

You are quoting from the Reformation Study Bible, and Reformed Theology promotes Replacement Theology. It began with Catholic *Saint Augustine*, was adopted by the Catholic Church, and then adopted by the Reformers (all former Catholics). Therefore their interpretation will always be slanted towards Amillennialism and Replacement Theology.

The fig tree is indeed a metaphor (stated as a parable) for Israel.

NO SPIRITUAL FRUIT IN ISRAEL AT CHRIST'S FIRST COMING
He spake also this parable; A certain man had a fig tree planted in his vineyard; and he came and sought fruit thereon, and found none. (lK 13:6)

ISRAEL OUTWARDLY FLOURISHING BEFORE THE SECOND COMING OF CHRIST
Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is nigh: So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near,even at the doors. Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled. (Mt 24:32-34)

 

[bluto]

(Mat 24:2 And He said to them, “Do you not see all these things? Truly I say to you, not one stone here will be left upon another, which will not be torn down.” )

(Mat 24:3 As He was sitting on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to Him privately, saying, “Tell us, when will these things happen, and what will be the sign of Your coming, and of the end of the age?” )

Look, Jesus associated the destruction of the 1st century temple with his coming after which the disciple asked when shall these things be?

When?

(Mat 24:34 “Truly I say to you, this generation will not pass away until all these things take place. )

The temple was destroyed in the generation that he lived in (this generation) therefor his coming was directly related to the time of the 1st century temple destruction.

A kid could figure this out.

Really, a kid could figure this out? Would not a big kid also want to ask you when did the end of the age occur and how come nobody saw the Son of Man coming on the clouds with His angels etc. at Matthew 24:29-31? How come nobody in that generation reported these events?

IN GOD THE SON,
bluto

 

[GaryA]

And we missed the 2 witnesses and the ac himself.
This could get real good if the lake of fire is history also

The time of the Two Witnesses is post-trib.

 

[Nehemiah6]

You will never be able to properly understand the End Times Scenario until you are willing to let go of the idea that the Great Tribulation is a seven-year period of time.

Make that 3 1/2 years for the Great Tribulation and the previous 3 1/2 years for the Tribulation (corresponding to the reign of the Antichrist) for a total of seven years.

One *week* in Daniel 9 is one shabua (heptad or seven) and it is equal to seven years. Seventy weeks are equal to 490 years, of which 483 years have been fulfilled until the crucifixion of Christ. The remaining seven years will be in the future.

 

[Nehemiah6]

The time of the Two Witnesses is post-trib.

That is incorrect. Their time corresponds to the reign of the Antichrist.

But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months. And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth. (Rev 11:2,3)


And there was given unto him [the Beast, the Antichrist] a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months. (Rev 13:5)

1260 days/30 = 42 months = 3 1/2 years = time (1 yr) + times (2 yrs) + half a time (6 mths)