What is the sheep-goat judgment of Mt 25:31-32? When will it take place?

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onlinebuddy

Senior Member
Sep 1, 2012
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#21
The great tribulation saints will be those who will have not believed in Christ at the time the church is gathered, but will become believers after the gathering and during the time of God's wrath and the beasts reign. This group is introduced in Rev.7:9-17. This is the same group that the beast makes war against and conquers as described in Rev.13:5-7. Those of the GTS who die because of their testimony for Jesus and the word of God, are those resurrected after Jesus returns to the earth to end the age as revealed in Rev.20:4-6
Ahwatukee,

This is what I gather from your posts:
Many saints(who refused to take the mark) will be martyred by the Antichrist during the 7 year tribulation.
Jesus will return at the end of the 7 years tribulation(end of the age) to judge the world.
These slain saints will then be resurrected, and enter the millennium. These are not the sheep.
Who then are the sheep?
 

onlinebuddy

Senior Member
Sep 1, 2012
1,115
24
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#22
Heaven is not the Kingdom... We pray the Lords prayer.. Thy Kingdom COME... if th kingdom was HEaven we would pray > Can we please goto your Kingdom...

So no the Kingdom is on earth.

With Jesus as its leader.
What I understand is that the Kingdom of God on earth constitutes all the believers, who have surrendered to Jesus and made him the King of their lives. These are the ones who do the will of God.
The kingdom of God is not an earthly temporal kingdom, but a spiritual one.
(Then there is also the Kingdom of God in heaven, where the will of God is already being done)

To enter the kingdom of God, one must:
become like little children
repent
be born from above
 

FollowHisSteps

Well-known member
Feb 15, 2019
3,674
1,201
113
#23
v31 The Son of Man will come with the angels. He will sit on his throne.
Is this throne on earth, or in heaven?
v32 All nations (sheep and goats together) will be there
Who are the nations?
How does this judgment relate to the Bema Seat Judgment and the Great White Throne Judgment?
Sadly both sheep and goats are reading this now.
And the goats believe they are sheep and will tell the real sheep they are actually the enemy, and persecute
and try and drive them out of the church. Ironic this, that the spiritual police turn out to be the forces of the
enemy.
 

Lanolin

Well-known member
Dec 15, 2018
23,460
7,188
113
#24
I have noticed even some christians call their children kids. Not lambs. Kids. As in baby goats.

They encourage them to be selfish and independent, thinking this is a good thing. It is not. They will grow up to be goats, self sufficient but also not even thinking of others. Its like we're number one, all the time.

Jesus recognises the sacrifices the sheep and lamb make for others but the goats and kids do not in fact make any. They also bully the sheep and lambs, which is why Jesus separates them.
 

Ahwatukee

Senior Member
Mar 12, 2015
11,159
2,375
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#25
if they believers then they are the body of Christ...
Actually, the church is completed at the time when the Lord comes to gather it. You will not find the great tribulation saints ever referred to as the church. In fact, the church is never mentioned during the narrative of God's wrath. In support of this, you have the word "ekklesia" translated as "church" 19 times throughout chapters 1 thru 3, then it disappears from the narrative. I personally believe that Revelation 4:1-2 is a prophet allusion to the church being called up by that voice that sounds like a trumpet, which is identified as being the Lord Jesus in Rev.1:10. I believe that this is synonymous with the "trumpet of God" found in I Thess.4:16.
 

Ahwatukee

Senior Member
Mar 12, 2015
11,159
2,375
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#26
Heaven is not the Kingdom... We pray the Lords prayer.. Thy Kingdom COME... if th kingdom was Heaven we would pray > Can we please goto your Kingdom...

So no the Kingdom is on earth.

With Jesus as its leader.
The church will also being going to the heavenly kingdom, as revealed in John 14:1-3.

"In My Father’s house there are many mansions. And if not so, would I have told you that I go to prepare a place for you? And if I go and prepare a place for you, I am coming again and will receive you to Myself, that where I am, you may be also. "

The Father's house could only be referring to heaven. And Jesus said that He was going there to prepare places for believers and that He was going to come back and get us so that we could be where He is, which again would be in the Father's house where He went to prepare places for us. This is also support by what Jesus told His disciples, which includes all believers:

"Simon Peter said to Him, "Lord, where are You going?" Jesus answered, "Where I go, you cannot follow Me now; but you will follow later."
 

Ahwatukee

Senior Member
Mar 12, 2015
11,159
2,375
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#27
So you believe It happen before milenium?

34 Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:

To me verse 34 indicate It happen after milenium

Inherit the kingdom, = heaven not go into milenium
=
Well, lets look at the scripture:

"When the Son of Man comes in His glory, and all the angels with Him, He will sit on His glorious throne. 32All the nations will be gathered before Him, and He will separate the people one from another, as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. 33He will place the sheep on His right and the goats on His left."

The sheep and the goat judgment is included in the Olivet Discourse, which began in Matt.24 when the disciples asked Jesus "what would be the sign of your coming and the end of the age?" Verse 31 in the scripture above gives us a clue as to when this sheep and goat judgment will take place when Jesus says "When the Son of Man comes in His glory and all the angels with Him." This is synonymous with Matt.24:30-31 which says:

"At that time the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and all the tribes of the earth will mourn. They will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven, with power and great glory. And He will send out His angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather His elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other. "

Therefore, the Son of Man coming in His glory and His angels with Him, would be referring to Matt.24:30-31 when He returns to the earth with His angels to end the age and which is the same time that the judgment of the sheep and the goats takes place. His coming with the angels is referring to His coming to the earth.
 
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
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#29
Post Great Tribulation/Pre-Wrath ingathering of ALL the saved......there is no rapture prior to the 1st seal.......the bible does not support this view regardless of any and all that peddle it........
 

Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
11,769
1,371
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#30
Well, lets look at the scripture:

"When the Son of Man comes in His glory, and all the angels with Him, He will sit on His glorious throne. 32All the nations will be gathered before Him, and He will separate the people one from another, as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. 33He will place the sheep on His right and the goats on His left."

The sheep and the goat judgment is included in the Olivet Discourse, which began in Matt.24 when the disciples asked Jesus "what would be the sign of your coming and the end of the age?" Verse 31 in the scripture above gives us a clue as to when this sheep and goat judgment will take place when Jesus says "When the Son of Man comes in His glory and all the angels with Him." This is synonymous with Matt.24:30-31 which says:

"At that time the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and all the tribes of the earth will mourn. They will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven, with power and great glory. And He will send out His angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather His elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other. "

Therefore, the Son of Man coming in His glory and His angels with Him, would be referring to Matt.24:30-31 when He returns to the earth with His angels to end the age and which is the same time that the judgment of the sheep and the goats takes place. His coming with the angels is referring to His coming to the earth.
Make sense,

But why

41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:

Is the goat not go to milenium, but directly to eternal fire?
 

Ahwatukee

Senior Member
Mar 12, 2015
11,159
2,375
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#31
Ahwatukee,

This is what I gather from your posts:
Many saints(who refused to take the mark) will be martyred by the Antichrist during the 7 year tribulation.
Correct! The saints who come out of the great tribulation (GTS) are referred to in the scriptures below:

"After this I looked and saw a multitude too large to count, from every nation and tribe and people and tongue, standing before the throne and before the Lamb."

"Then one of the elders addressed me: “These in white robes,” he asked, “who are they, and where have they come from?”

“Sir,” I answered, “you know.”

So he replied, “These are the ones who have come out of the great tribulation; they have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.

"Then the beast was permitted to wage war against the saints and to conquer them, and it was given authority over every tribe and people and tongue and nation."

"And I saw something like a sea of glass mixed with fire, beside which stood those (GTS) who had conquered the beast and its image and the number of its name.

"And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their testimony of Jesus and for the word of God, and those who had not worshiped the beast or its image, and had not received its mark on their foreheads or hands. And they came to life and reigned with Christ for a thousand years.

All of the scriptures above are referring to the great tribulation saints. As I pointed out in a previous post, the word "ekklesia" translated as "church" is found 19 times throughout chapters 1 thru 3. Then after chapter 4 the word never appears again and is replaced by the word "hagios" translated as "Saints," which is referring to the great tribulation saints introduced in Rev.7:9-17. Previous to chapter 7, John was told to write letters to the seven churches. The very fact that the elder is asking John who this group is wearing white robes, would demonstrate that it is not the church, which John had already written to. In addition, John says that he doesn't know who they are, ergo, they are not the church.

Jesus will return at the end of the 7 years tribulation(end of the age) to judge the world.
These slain saints will then be resurrected, and enter the millennium. These are not the sheep.
Who then are the sheep?
Yes, this is correct. The great tribulation saints who die as a result of keeping their testimony of Jesus and the word of God and because they will not have worshiped the beast, his image nor received his mark, will be resurrected when Jesus returns to the earth to end the age and they, along with the church and the 144,000 out of Israel, will rule with Christ in their immortal and glorified bodies.

The sheep will be the great tribulation saints who will have not been killed and will make it alive until Jesus returns to the earth to end the age. They will be those who will enter into the millennial period to repopulate the earth, along with the remnant of Israel. All of these will still be in their mortal bodies. And according to other scriptures regarding the millennial kingdom, the longevity of life will be like it was prior to the flood when people lived to be 800 and 900 years old, as revealed from the following:

"Never again will there be in it an infant who lives but a few days, or an old man who does not live out his years; the one who dies at a hundred will be thought a mere child; the one who fails to reach a hundred will be considered accursed."

During the millennial kingdom the world will be full of the peace of the Lord. Prey and predator animals and their young will lie down together. If a man dies at a hundred he will be thought to be a mere child. In comparison, if a man reaches a hundred years old today, he is considered old. But dying at a hundred in the millennial kingdom will be though to by young or that the person is cursed. Therefore, there will be longevity of life as it was prior to the flood.

"The wolf will live with the lamb, and the leopard will lie down with the goat; the calf and young lion and fatling will be together,
and a little child will lead them.

The cow will graze with the bear, their young will lie down together, and the lion will eat straw like the ox.

The infant will play by the cobra’s den, and the toddler will reach into the viper’s nest.

They will neither harm nor destroy on all My holy mountain, for the earth will be full of the knowledge of the LORD as the sea is full of water.

In no time in history since the above was written has the earth ever been in at state where prey and predator animals and their young were at peace with each other. Another example is the lion eating straw like the oxen. When has that ever happened? These are the characteristics of the coming millennial kingdom.
 

Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
11,769
1,371
113
#32
Heaven is not the Kingdom... We pray the Lords prayer.. Thy Kingdom COME... if th kingdom was HEaven we would pray > Can we please goto your Kingdom...

So no the Kingdom is on earth.

With Jesus as its leader.
Yep, It may oN earth, as long as God is the King, we call It the Kingdom af God
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
26,074
13,771
113
#35
How does this judgment relate to the Bema Seat Judgment and the Great White Throne Judgment?
This judgment of the nations is just AFTER the Second Coming of Christ and just BEFORE the establishment of the Millennial reign of Christ on earth. It is not related to either of the above two judgments.
 

Ahwatukee

Senior Member
Mar 12, 2015
11,159
2,375
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#36
Post Great Tribulation/Pre-Wrath ingathering of ALL the saved......there is no rapture prior to the 1st seal.......the bible does not support this view regardless of any and all that peddle it........
But it does D. The fact that believers are not appointed to suffer God's coming wrath, which is initiated by the opening of the first seal, demonstrates that the church must be gathered prior to the first seal being opened.

Jesus also promised that He would keep believers out of the hour of trial which is another designation representing that time of wrath.

Anyone who says that God is going to protect the church through the time of His wrath, has not done a thorough study on the severity of that time period. For as Jesus said, and I paraphrase "If those days were allowed to go on any longer, no one would be left alive on the earth."

Jesus already took upon Himself the wrath of God on behalf of every believer, satisfying it completely. Therefore, the wrath of God no longer rests upon those who believe. We have been credited with righteousness and reconciled to God and therefore according to His promise in John 14:1-3 and I Thess.4:13-17, will be gathered prior to God's wrath which begins at the opening of the first seal.

Jesus is not going to build His church and then send it through His wrath.

I would also remind you that you will not find the word church mentioned anywhere within the narrative of God's wrath in Revelation. Yet, you will find it listed 19 times throughout chapters 1 thru 3. Then it just dissappears.
 

Ahwatukee

Senior Member
Mar 12, 2015
11,159
2,375
113
#37
Make sense,

But why

41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:

Is the goat not go to milenium, but directly to eternal fire?
Correct! Those of the goat group will not be allowed to enter into the millennial period. Whether they immediately are sent into the lake of fire or into Hades first and to later stand at the great white throne, it doesn't say. The gist is that their ultimate fate will be everlasting fire.

Only those who will have kept the testimony of Jesus and the word of God and will not have worshiped the beast, his image nor received his mark, will enter into the millennial kingdom. Everyone else will be killed by that double-edged sword which will proceed from the Lord's mouth, which is figurative representing the spoken word of God. (See Rev.19 verses 17-18 and 21)
 
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
20,401
113
#38
But it does D. The fact that believers are not appointed to suffer God's coming wrath, which is initiated by the opening of the first seal, demonstrates that the church must be gathered prior to the first seal being opened.

Jesus also promised that He would keep believers out of the hour of trial which is another designation representing that time of wrath.

Anyone who says that God is going to protect the church through the time of His wrath, has not done a thorough study on the severity of that time period. For as Jesus said, and I paraphrase "If those days were allowed to go on any longer, no one would be left alive on the earth."

Jesus already took upon Himself the wrath of God on behalf of every believer, satisfying it completely. Therefore, the wrath of God no longer rests upon those who believe. We have been credited with righteousness and reconciled to God and therefore according to His promise in John 14:1-3 and I Thess.4:13-17, will be gathered prior to God's wrath which begins at the opening of the first seal.

Jesus is not going to build His church and then send it through His wrath.

I would also remind you that you will not find the word church mentioned anywhere within the narrative of God's wrath in Revelation. Yet, you will find it listed 19 times throughout chapters 1 thru 3. Then it just dissappears.
We have had this dance before.....tribulation and wrath are two different animals all together and like I had said to you before....the wrath of GOD having arrived is not announced until the 7th trump in heaven before the throne of God, LOST men hiding in caves announcing it does not alleviate the fact that it is announced in HEAVEN before the throne at the 7th trump.....and your whole premise is false...the entire BOOK is given unto the Churches and the SAINTS in the N.T. are identified with churches.....

The proof that the Lord's churches will endure the Great Tribulation to purify is found ALL throughout scripture.....Matthew, Luke, Mark ALL place the ingathering AFTER the great trib, the parable of the wheat and tares has GOD dealing with the TARES first before he gathers, Thessalonians places it AFTER the man of SIN has been revealed, Daniel and Revelation have the beast making war against the saints, prevailing against them and over coming then for 3.5 years and on and on and on....

It is a pipe dream and false to peddle some fanciful imminent return where we go poof before the Great Tribulation

and to your whole point above.....NO ONE has said we will endure the WRATH of GOD, but he does state clearly that HE WILL guard and protect from loss or harm those FAITHFUL during the time of the GREAT TRIBULATION....

Wake up man....they are not the same thing and NO one has said that the are except you......
 

Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
11,769
1,371
113
#39
Correct! Those of the goat group will not be allowed to enter into the millennial period. Whether they immediately are sent into the lake of fire or into Hades first and to later stand at the great white throne, it doesn't say. The gist is that their ultimate fate will be everlasting fire.

Only those who will have kept the testimony of Jesus and the word of God and will not have worshiped the beast, his image nor received his mark, will enter into the millennial kingdom. Everyone else will be killed by that double-edged sword which will proceed from the Lord's mouth, which is figurative representing the spoken word of God. (See Rev.19 verses 17-18 and 21)
I remember in the milenial Christian reign with Jesus, and all people in the milenium are Christian, If all leader, who is the people.

Also in the end of milenial there Will be war between God and all the follower and Lucifer and people that follow him. Who is this people that follow Lucifer If all people in the milenial are Christian?
 

PennEd

Senior Member
Apr 22, 2013
13,572
9,091
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#40
v31 The Son of Man will come with the angels. He will sit on his throne.
Is this throne on earth, or in heaven?
v32 All nations (sheep and goats together) will be there
Who are the nations?
How does this judgment relate to the Bema Seat Judgment and the Great White Throne Judgment?
I believe the key to this whole passage is the how Jesus differentiates between the Sheep and "My Brethren."

37 “Then the righteous will answer Him, saying, ‘Lord, when did we see You hungry and feed You, or thirsty and give You drink? 38 When did we see You a stranger and take You in, or naked and clothe You? 39 Or when did we see You sick, or in prison, and come to You?’ 40 And the King will answer and say to them, ‘Assuredly, I say to you, inasmuch as you did it to one of the least of these MY BRETHREN, you did it to Me.’

WHO are His Brethren? They are obviously different than the Sheep in this passage. I believe the Sheep are converted gentile Christians that helped His Jewish Blood brothers during the Great Tribulation, that finally accepted Him whom they pierced.