The Tabernacle in the Wilderness

[7seasrekeyed]

Expressing an understanding of scripture that differs from others should not be considered attacking others. I share the word and do not attack people. If you think otherwise please point out the posts.

oh the irony

 

[7seasrekeyed]

Waggles said:
The Revival Fellowship is not "Oneness" doctrine; far from it …
and yet what you quote above is the NT faith and doctrine of the first church and thus as we also uphold this we can rightly
claim to be Pentecostal Christians.
And yes if you do not speak in tongues you have not received the baptism of the Holy Spirit.
Scripture is scripture.

well you don't follow the doctrine of the Bible, never mind the first church

Jesus never said 'go ye into all the world and make Pentecostal Christians'

tongues do not save people

only the blood of Christ, shed on your behalf and all people's behalf, for the forgiveness of sins, is acceptable to God

 

[7seasrekeyed]

As I mentioned to bluto, I think the thing that people don't realize is that it was God's choice to remit sin based on the obedient faith demonstrated in one submitting to water baptism.

Water baptism was not some idea people came up with to try and save themselves. Water baptism was created by God.

again, stating that baptism saves

from the op, again:


1. Acceptance of Jesus sacrifice and repentance

2. Water Baptism (receive the priestly garments)

3. Infilling of the Holy Ghost

4. Priestly office secured

5. Blood of Jesus sacrifice is applied

Jesus does not save a person unless they first are water baptize

yet, the Bible clearly teaches that you receive Christ and then are water baptized

if someone receives Christ, number one on the op list, they are saved there. everything else follows

water regeneration is not taught in scripture

 

[7seasrekeyed]

as a non Pentecostal, it is ridiculous to constantly hear the expression Pentecostal applied to the first church

the first church, that is believers in Christ, were NOT Pentecostals

whatever church waggles belongs to, seems to believe they have achieved some kind of elevated status by calling themselves Pentecostal Christians. little waggles just loves to mark x's on any posts that do not agree with his tongues and baptism teachings

well, it seems waggles and his church have an opinion but not a doctrine

and it seems he has run out of ways to defend it and resorts to either saying they are Pentecostal or just marking an x

so, if a person believes in the gifts of the Spirit and they speak in tongues etc, does that mean they are going to hell if they do not refer to themself as Pentecostal?

well, that is actually a question no one will ask, so why are the oneness Pentecostals in this thread insisting you are going to hell if you do not copy their rules for the Pentecostal life they profess is the only life that pleases God?

it does not matter how many times a person posts scripture that totally refutes the position that baptismal regeneration is simply not found in the Bible as presented by waggles et al

this illustrates how dangerous it is, to hand select certain scriptures that appear on the surface, to buoy up wrong doctrine

you do not have to belong to a certain denomination to embrace the New Testament and give yourself a name that satisfies your ego...as in 'we are the NT church' as some have done. the NT church was far from perfect and in fact, it takes only a cursory reading to prove that true

it seems to me the Apostles would have had a meeting to try and figure out what to do with the Oneness people and Paul would have utterly refuted their statement

but here we are in the 21st C and it is baring a striking resemblance to the book of Judges wherein everyone does what is right in their own eyes

the Holy Spirit does not lie nor teach error to be taught to others. if a so called personal revelation does not line up with basic doctrine...that is, if someone comes along and states the Holy Spirit personally told them we all have salvation or sanctification wrong, and then teach that salvation is this plus that or something else, that, is not from God. if they say you can live a totally sinless life that is also wrong. sanctification is a process....not an event.

a baby, does not come out of the womb wearing a suit and tie and ready for work but that is basically how some view sanctification

so much of the NT was written to combat error and it will still have the same effect today if studied and applied

I do not believe that God will say well done to people who constantly try and change the simplicity of our faith or the grace of God into something that needs to be supplied with our efforts.

these, God's grace and our faith, work together for our salvation in Christ and His blood alone atones for the sin of the world for whosoever will call upon His name and be saved

this is the work of the Holy Spirit

it is NOT our work and never will be

 

[gcdcpakmbs]

Pattern is a form of prophecy. Thank you for sharing. Arguments around the meaning of such things are healthy if conducted prayerfully and compassionately. (My opinion only)
Acts 17:11 "Now these were more noble-minded than those in Thessalonica, for they received the word with great eagerness, examining the Scriptures daily to see whether these things were so."
So argue to discover the truth, and pray for wisdom with faith and without doubting. James 1: 5-6.
I think I should, before entering a conversation on the internet...each day read James Chapter 3. And presume to insert "Keyboard" in place of "Tongue". (insert smiley thing here)

 

[Wansvic]

Due to Cornelius' sincere love for God, God sent an angel to instruct Cornelius to seek out Peter who would tell him how to be saved. (Acts 11;14) From scripture is seen the fact that Cornelius thanked Peter for coming and said we are all here present before God to hear all things that are commanded thee of God. Peter than makes the statement that everyone that fears God and works righteousness is accepted of God.


Acts 10:30-35
And Cornelius said, Four days ago I was fasting until this hour; and at the ninth hour I prayed in my house, and, behold, a man stood before me in bright clothing,
And said, Cornelius, thy prayer is heard, and thine alms are had in remembrance in the sight of God.
Send therefore to Joppa, and call hither Simon, whose surname is Peter; he is lodged in the house of one Simon a tanner by the sea side: who, when he cometh, shall speak unto thee.

Immediately therefore I sent to thee; and thou hast well done that thou art come. Now therefore are we all here present before God, to hear all things that are COMMANDED thee of God.
Then Peter opened his mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons:
But in every nation he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him.


The following is what Peter says is commanded of God:

Acts 10:43-11:1
To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins.
While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word.
And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost.
For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter,
Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?
And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.
And the apostles and brethren that were in Judaea heard that the Gentiles had also received the word of God.

 

[Wansvic]

Another interesting scripture 1 Corinthians 6:11:

1 Cor 6:11
And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, AND by the Spirit of our God.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Another interesting scripture 1 Corinthians 6:11:

1 Cor 6:11
And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, AND by the Spirit of our God.

Yep

All these things were performed BY THE SPIRIT OF OUR GOD.

Not by some human agent.

 

[7seasrekeyed]

Due to Cornelius' sincere love for God, God sent an angel to instruct Cornelius to seek out Peter who would tell him how to be saved. (Acts 11;14) From scripture is seen the fact that Cornelius thanked Peter for coming and said we are all here present before God to hear all things that are commanded thee of God. Peter than makes the statement that everyone that fears God and works righteousness is accepted of God.


Acts 10:30-35
And Cornelius said, Four days ago I was fasting until this hour; and at the ninth hour I prayed in my house, and, behold, a man stood before me in bright clothing,
And said, Cornelius, thy prayer is heard, and thine alms are had in remembrance in the sight of God.
Send therefore to Joppa, and call hither Simon, whose surname is Peter; he is lodged in the house of one Simon a tanner by the sea side: who, when he cometh, shall speak unto thee.

Immediately therefore I sent to thee; and thou hast well done that thou art come. Now therefore are we all here present before God, to hear all things that are COMMANDED thee of God.
Then Peter opened his mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons:
But in every nation he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him.


The following is what Peter says is commanded of God:

Acts 10:43-11:1
To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins.
While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word.
And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost.
For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter,
Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?
And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.
And the apostles and brethren that were in Judaea heard that the Gentiles had also received the word of God.

lovely

you have just confirmed that your 5 point list is wrong

they spoke in tongues and THEN.....AFTER THEY SPOKE IN TONGUES...Peter said let them be baptized

here is your list again from your op:

After stating how the priestly office is secured, the Word instructs us about our Christian walk and how to honor God with various types of offerings.

The New Testament parallel is as follows:

1. Acceptance of Jesus sacrifice and repentance

2. Water Baptism (receive the priestly garments)

3. Infilling of the Holy Ghost

4. Priestly office secured

5. Blood of Jesus sacrifice is applied


you would have people be baptized in OPPOSITION to the very portion of scripture YOU posted wherein people are baptized AFTER speaking in tongues

this type of error is common when baptism is presented as regeneration

I do not expect any sort of 'oh I didn't see that from wansvic or any other oneness person here'..

but for those who actually want to understand how far off the error is when it comes to baptism presented as washing away sins, this should be an eye opener

and again, the blood of Jesus was shed on the cross for our redemption...there is not forgiveness with the blood of Christ and that is applied at salvation

NOT after people have satisfied their desire to adhere to a rigid and unbiblical set of rules

 

[Nehemiah6]

you have just confirmed that your 5 point list is wrong

Wresting or twisting the Scriptures is the primary modus operandi of false teachers and their adherents. But they will never give up their nonsense.

 

[7seasrekeyed]

Wresting or twisting the Scriptures is the primary modus operandi of false teachers and their adherents. But they will never give up their nonsense.

this false teaching in particular seems to be epic in its doctrine

can you imagine putting the blood of Jesus at the end of '5 steps to be saved'?

that is the central theme of salvation and they basically write their own law, inspired by OT law, and declare themselves alone worthy for salvation

I don't know how to explain that mess

 

[mailmandan]

Due to Cornelius' sincere love for God, God sent an angel to instruct Cornelius to seek out Peter who would tell him how to be saved. (Acts 11;14) From scripture is seen the fact that Cornelius thanked Peter for coming and said we are all here present before God to hear all things that are commanded thee of God. Peter than makes the statement that everyone that fears God and works righteousness is accepted of God.

Acts 10:30-35
And Cornelius said, Four days ago I was fasting until this hour; and at the ninth hour I prayed in my house, and, behold, a man stood before me in bright clothing,
And said, Cornelius, thy prayer is heard, and thine alms are had in remembrance in the sight of God.
Send therefore to Joppa, and call hither Simon, whose surname is Peter; he is lodged in the house of one Simon a tanner by the sea side: who, when he cometh, shall speak unto thee.

Immediately therefore I sent to thee; and thou hast well done that thou art come. Now therefore are we all here present before God, to hear all things that are COMMANDED thee of God.
Then Peter opened his mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons:
But in every nation he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him.

In regards to Acts 10:35, working righteousness is the result of having been saved through faith. We are not saved by works of righteousness (Titus 3:5), but works of righteousness in connection with salvation are the fruit of, not the means of obtaining salvation. God accepts those who fear Him and work righteousness from a right principle, and to a right end, yet their fear of Him and working righteousness are not the origin of their acceptance; but are to be considered as descriptive of the persons, who are accepted by Him in Christ. You must not confuse "descriptive" passages of scripture (Acts 10:35) with "prescriptive" passages of scripture (Acts 10:43). You are not rightly dividing the word of truth. The question here is whether God's favor is made available to Jews only or is now available to Gentiles also (those in every nation who fear Him and work righteousness/does what is right) which Peter learned in his vision in Acts 10.

The following is what Peter says is commanded of God:

We are not to confuse what God has commanded us to do "in order to become saved" with what God has commanded us to do "after we have been saved." Just like we are not to confuse God's will for us TO BECOME SAVED: John 6:40 - For my Father’s will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in Him shall have eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day. With God's will for us AFTER WE HAVE BEEN SAVED: 1 Thessalonians 5:14 Now we exhort you, brethren, warn those who are unruly, comfort the fainthearted, uphold the weak, be patient with all. 15 See that no one renders evil for evil to anyone, but always pursue what is good both for yourselves and for all. 16 Rejoice always, 17 pray without ceasing, 18 in everything give thanks; for this is the will of God in Christ Jesus for you.

Acts 10:43-11:1
To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins.
While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word.
And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost.
For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter,

As clearly stated in verse 43 - ..whoever believes in Him receives remission of sins. The evidence is overwhelming in Acts 10:43-47 that these Gentles believed, received the gift of the Holy Spirit, spoke in tongues (which is a spiritual gift that is ONLY for the body of Christ - 1 Corinthians 12) and were saved BEFORE water baptism. Certain Jews may have wanted to forbid these Gentiles from being baptized because of their unacceptance of the Gentiles, but Peter clearly states that SURELY NO ONE CAN REFUSE. These Gentiles were clearly SAVED BEFORE WATER BAPTISM and the Holy Spirit was proof of this. (Romans 8:9; 1 John 4:13)

Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?
And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.
And the apostles and brethren that were in Judaea heard that the Gentiles had also received the word of God.

These Gentiles were commanded to be water baptized AFTER they believed, received the gift of the Holy Spirit and were saved.

 

[Wansvic]

lovely

you have just confirmed that your 5 point list is wrong

they spoke in tongues and THEN.....AFTER THEY SPOKE IN TONGUES...Peter said let them be baptized

here is your list again from your op:

After stating how the priestly office is secured, the Word instructs us about our Christian walk and how to honor God with various types of offerings.

The New Testament parallel is as follows:

1. Acceptance of Jesus sacrifice and repentance

2. Water Baptism (receive the priestly garments)

3. Infilling of the Holy Ghost

4. Priestly office secured

5. Blood of Jesus sacrifice is applied


you would have people be baptized in OPPOSITION to the very portion of scripture YOU posted wherein people are baptized AFTER speaking in tongues

this type of error is common when baptism is presented as regeneration

I do not expect any sort of 'oh I didn't see that from wansvic or any other oneness person here'..

but for those who actually want to understand how far off the error is when it comes to baptism presented as washing away sins, this should be an eye opener

and again, the blood of Jesus was shed on the cross for our redemption...there is not forgiveness with the blood of Christ and that is applied at salvation

NOT after people have satisfied their desire to adhere to a rigid and unbiblical set of rules

I have stated, and it is evidenced in the Word, that all components as outlined by Peter must be obeyed. Clearly the order is not crucial as seen.

1. The point of the post you reply to was that Cornelius states he wants to hear ALL THINGS that are COMMANDED THEE OF GOD.
2. Peter says those who fear God and work righteousness are accepted of God. Acts 10:30-35
3. Cornelius and others hear the message of Jesus and His sacrifice, God fills them with the gift, they are given the command to get water baptized.

 

[Wansvic]

this false teaching in particular seems to be epic in its doctrine

can you imagine putting the blood of Jesus at the end of '5 steps to be saved'?

that is the central theme of salvation and they basically write their own law, inspired by OT law, and declare themselves alone worthy for salvation

I don't know how to explain that mess

Typology.

 

[Wansvic]

"All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works." 2 Tim 3:16-17

 

[7seasrekeyed]

"All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works." 2 Tim 3:16-17

right

except when cult like behavior is exposed

after that, it's anything goes

and that is what is going on here with your baptismal regeneration

a very sad moment for what you believe

 

[7seasrekeyed]

I have stated, and it is evidenced in the Word, that all components as outlined by Peter must be obeyed. Clearly the order is not crucial as seen.

1. The point of the post you reply to was that Cornelius states he wants to hear ALL THINGS that are COMMANDED THEE OF GOD.
2. Peter says those who fear God and work righteousness are accepted of God. Acts 10:30-35
3. Cornelius and others hear the message of Jesus and His sacrifice, God fills them with the gift, they are given the command to get water baptized.

except Peter does not say what you do

and neither does Jesus

and neither does John the Baptist

and neither does Paul

not going to believe a cult like viewpoint that is extra biblical and ensnares people all over again

you adhered to another law

but this one is NOT written by the hand of God

 

[7seasrekeyed]

Hebrews 9

Berean Study Bible Par ▾
The Earthly Tabernacle
(Exodus 25:1-9; Exodus 40:1-33)
1Now the first covenanta had regulations for worship and also an earthly sanctuary. 2A tabernacle was prepared. In its first room were the lampstand, the table, and the consecrated bread. This was called the Holy Place. 3Behind the second curtain was a room called the Most Holy Place,b 4containing the golden altar of incense and the gold-covered ark of the covenant. Inside the ark were the gold jar of manna, Aaron’s staff that had budded, and the stone tablets of the covenant. 5Above the ark were the cherubim of glory, overshadowing the mercy seat.c But we cannot discuss these things in detail now.

6When everything had been prepared in this way, the priests entered regularly into the first room to perform their sacred duties. 7But only the high priest entered the second room, and then only once a year, and never without blood, which he offered for himself and for the sins the people had committed in ignorance.

8By this arrangement the Holy Spirit was showing that the way into the Most Holy Place had not yet been disclosed as long as the first tabernacle was still standing. 9It is an illustration for the present time, because the gifts and sacrifices being offered were unable to cleanse the conscience of the worshiper. 10They consist only in food and drink and special washings—external regulations imposed until the time of reform.

Redemption through His Blood
11But when Christ came as high priest of the good things that have come,d He went through the greater and more perfect tabernacle that is not made by hands and is not of this creation. 12He did not enter by the blood of goats and calves, but He entered the Most Holy Place once for all by His own blood, thus securing eternal redemption.
13For if the blood of goats and bulls and the ashes of a heifer sprinkled on those who are ceremonially unclean sanctify them so that their bodies are clean, 14how much more will the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered Himself unblemished to God, purify oure consciences from works of death, so that we may serve the living God!


the above passage from Hebrews 9 clears any misunderstanding regarding the blood of Christ and does away with the oneness misapplication of the OT cleansing ritual as a comparison to immersion in water (baptism)

it is ONLY the blood of Christ that has obtained forgiveness for sin from God

your continued insistence otherwise, marks you as someone Paul would have not problem telling others to steer clear of

this, is why I continue to refute your heretical teaching that baptism cleanses from sin

 

[Wansvic]

I have stated many times that without the blood of Jesus there would be no redemption for mankind. After receiving this message instructions were provided that everyone is commanded to obey.

Mankind is to repent and get water baptized. God provides the gift to those who have obeyed His instructions (Acts 2:38-41, 8:12-18) as well as those He knows will obey when provided with the command (Acts 10:44-48; 19:1-6, 22:16).

The bible makes it clear that water baptism was not optional. When the command was given without exception everyone complied. (Acts 2:38-41, 8:12-18, 10:44-48, 19:1-6, 22:16 Paul, 8:35-40 Eunuch, 16:28-33 Jailer/family, 16:14-15 Lydia/family, 18:8 Crispus/Corinthian believers)

Each as individuals must make the choice whether to believe and obey the instructions or not.

 

[7seasrekeyed]

I have stated many times that without the blood of Jesus there would be no redemption for mankind. After receiving this message instructions were provided that everyone is commanded to obey.

Mankind is to repent and get water baptized. God provides the gift to those who have obeyed His instructions (Acts 2:38-41, 8:12-18) as well as those He knows will obey when provided with the command (Acts 10:44-48; 19:1-6, 22:16).

The bible makes it clear that water baptism was not optional. When the command was given without exception everyone complied. (Acts 2:38-41, 8:12-18, 10:44-48, 19:1-6, 22:16 Paul, 8:35-40 Eunuch, 16:28-33 Jailer/family, 16:14-15 Lydia/family, 18:8 Crispus/Corinthian believers)

Each as individuals must make the choice whether to believe and obey the instructions or not.

is it possible for you to be honest?

what you have stated is that the blood of Christ is applied ONLY after your 5 step program with the blood being number 5

you should repent and stop peddling water regeneration

you are forever telling people to reply to what you say are your proof verses

but you NEVER respond to scripture others post that clearly refute your belief

what I just posted from Hebrews totally refutes the heretical teaching that water cleanses from sin

you have nothing to say about it.

actually, that speaks louder than anything you have actually posted

your silence confirms the fact you cannot twist what Hebrews says BECAUSE it does not mention water

you have a good day now