The Tabernacle in the Wilderness

[Wansvic]

Now pay attention wansvic. Mark 1:1-4. John's purpose was to prepare the way of the Lord, i.e Jesus Christ and this is brought out at Malachi 3:1, "Behold, I am going to send My "angel/messenger," and he will clear the way before Me. And the Lord/Jesus Christ whom you seek, will suddengly come to His temple; and the "angel/messenger" of the covenant in whom you delight, behold, He is coming." says the Lord of hosts."

So the angel/messenger is John the Baptist and at Mark 1:4 it says, "John the Baptist appeared in the wilderness preaching a baptism of repentance for the forgiveness of sins." Now, watch this from Acts 19:1-7, Instead of quoting all the verses I will shorten it up but you can read it for yourself. Vs2 Paul said to them, Did you receive the Holy Spirit WHEN YOU BELIEVED? And they said NO, we have not even heard whether there is a Holy Spirit.

Vs3, And he said, into what then were you baptized? And they said, "Into John's baptism." Vs4, And Paul said, John baptized with the baptism of repentance, telling the people TO BELIEVE IN HIM who was coming after him, that is in Jesus." Vs5, And when they heard this, they were baptized in the name of Jesus. Vs6, And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Spirit came on them, and they began speaking with tongues and prophesying."

So, the baptism of John was for the purpose of preparing the people to believe in Jesus Christ. John's baptism did not save anybody which is the point the Apostle Paul is making, (vs4). Now grant it, this instance at Acts 19 is rather unusual because the book of Acts is a narrative outlining the start of the Church. And as I said before Paul says that God did not send him to baptize but th preach the gospel as outlined at 1 Corinthians 15:1-4. And at 1 Corinthians 2:2, "We preach Jesus Christ and Him crucified." Not preach Jesus Christ and get water baptized as well. I hope and pray this makes sense to you.

IN GOD THE SON,
bluto

Of course John was proclaiming the soon arrival of the messiah, that was not the point being made in my post.

Water baptism for the remission of sin was introduced by John. Water baptism continues even unto today the only difference is that after Jesus' death, burial and resurrection John's water baptism was altered in that it was administered in the name of Jesus.
This is confirmed by the scripture you quoted in Acts 19. It points to the fact that water baptism was so important that the people had to be obedient and be re-baptized. They also had to receive the infilling of the Holy Ghost. This event parallels exactly the instructions given on the Day of Pentecost. The same is seen in the experiences depicted in Acts 8:12-17 and Acts 10:44-48.

I think the thing that people don't realize is that God remits sin based on the obedient faith demonstrated in one submitting to water
baptism.

 

[Wansvic]

Wrong.....no offense but this shows a complete lack of understanding.....do you even know what John's purpose and ministry was about......serious.......and immersion in water DOES NOT remit sins.......it is a PICTURE that sates ONE has already DIED to sin, been put in the GROUND with JESUS and resurrected a NEW creation.......it is NO different than circumcision..........it is an OUTWARD sign of INWARD belief........

AND JOHN'S mission was to PREPARE the way for the coming MESSIAH....the one ANNOUNCING his ARRIVAL.........

As I mentioned to bluto, I think the thing that people don't realize is that it was God's choice to remit sin based on the obedient faith demonstrated in one submitting to water baptism.

Water baptism was not some idea people came up with to try and save themselves. Water baptism was created by God.

 

[7seasrekeyed]

As I mentioned to bluto, I think the thing that people don't realize is that it was God's choice to remit sin based on the obedient faith demonstrated in one submitting to water baptism.

Water baptism was not some idea people came up with to try and save themselves. Water baptism was created by God.

water baptism is most definitely in scripture

however, it seems you oneness folks are still wandering in the wilderness and have not actually accepted Christ's sacrifice for the remission of your sins

ONLY THE BLOOD OF CHRIST WASHES AWAY OUR SIN WHEN WE ACCEPT HIS SACRIFICE

anything added to His sacrifice, which alone is acceptable to God the Father, is an insult and a slap in the face of God Himself

the posts of the oneness doctrine seem cult like in the objective to rewrite scripture

 

[7seasrekeyed]

It might be interesting to discuss if people who add to salvation are actually saved

they are constantly stating that unless you believe as they do, you are not saved

ie: wansvics post 241

I think the thing that people don't realize is that God remits sin based on the obedient faith demonstrated in one submitting to water
baptism.

there it is. water baptism saves from sin

flies in the face of what scripture teaches and like a slap in the face of God Himself

 

[Wansvic]

It might be interesting to discuss if people who add to salvation are actually saved

they are constantly stating that unless you believe as they do, you are not saved

ie: wansvics post 241



there it is. water baptism saves from sin

flies in the face of what scripture teaches and like a slap in the face of God Himself

Any thoughts about the content of the following scriptures? Please do me the courtesy of reading through the entire comment. Thanks.

Acts 10:47 - Peter asked the other Jews present if they thought it proper to forbid to administer water baptism to those who had received God's Spirit. Why question if it was ok to water baptize someone if water baptism is nothing more than a public display? In answer, God's designed water baptism is much more, it is a baptism of repentance for the remission of sins that opens the door to eternal life. (Mark 1:4)

Acts 11:16-18 - After the events noted in Acts 10, Peter explains to the Jewish leaders that he was not going to withstand God after seeing that God filled them with His Holy Spirit the same way He had them on the Day of Pentecost. What did Peter do in order not to withstand God? He administered water baptism to the Gentiles in the name of the Lord.

"When they heard these things, they held their peace, and glorified God, saying, Then hath God also to the Gentiles granted repentance unto life." Acts 11:18

 

[Wansvic]

Consider Jesus' words just prior to ascending into Heaven, they precisely point to the instructions that will later be given on the Day of Pentecost.

"And said unto them, Thus it is written, and thus it behoved Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day:
And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.
And ye are witnesses of these things.
And, behold, I send the promise of my Father upon you: but tarry ye in the city of Jerusalem, until ye be endued with power from on high." Luke 24:46-49

It is interesting to note that Jesus began with comments that relate to every individual's obligation after accepting His sacrifice. He concluded with what He will do. He will send the promise of the Father, the Holy Ghost. (Acts 2:38-41)

 

[Wansvic]

Any thoughts?

Acts 10:47 - Peter asked the other Jews present if they thought it proper to forbid to administer water baptism to those who had received God's Spirit. Why question if it was ok to water baptize someone if water baptism is nothing more than a public display? In answer, God's water baptism is much more, it is a baptism of repentance for the remission of sins that opens the door to eternal life. (Mark 1:4)

Acts 11:16-18 - After the events noted in Acts 10, Peter explains to the Jewish leaders that he was not going to withstand God after seeing that God filled them with His Holy Spirit the same way He had them on the Day of Pentecost. What did Peter do in order not to withstand God? He administered water baptism to the Gentiles in the name of the Lord.

"When they heard these things, they held their peace, and glorified God, saying, Then hath God also to the Gentiles granted repentance unto life." Acts 11:18

 

[7seasrekeyed]

Any thoughts about the content of the following scriptures? Please do me the courtesy of reading through the entire comment. Thanks.

Acts 10:47 - Peter asked the other Jews present if they thought it proper to forbid to administer water baptism to those who had received God's Spirit. Why question if it was ok to water baptize someone if water baptism is nothing more than a public display? In answer, God's designed water baptism is much more, it is a baptism of repentance for the remission of sins that opens the door to eternal life. (Mark 1:4)

Acts 11:16-18 - After the events noted in Acts 10, Peter explains to the Jewish leaders that he was not going to withstand God after seeing that God filled them with His Holy Spirit the same way He had them on the Day of Pentecost. What did Peter do in order not to withstand God? He administered water baptism to the Gentiles in the name of the Lord.

"When they heard these things, they held their peace, and glorified God, saying, Then hath God also to the Gentiles granted repentance unto life." Acts 11:18

got your attention? wasn't trying to actually

frankly, you have a nerve to tell me to do you the courtesy of reading your post when you have actually told me you cannot be bothered to read, let alone answer mine

self righteous much?

I am wondering if we should discuss whether or not your beliefs register on the book of Life since you think the rest of us got it all wrong

maybe you should hold your peace yourself and listen cause you doing what you tell me not to do

further, your notes on public display are indicative of the spirit in which you write your posts. insulting and very telling. who are you to judge the heart of a person being baptized to show they belong to Christ?

perhaps your own show of baptismal works is the actual public display

can't make it up

 

[Wansvic]

got your attention? wasn't trying to actually

frankly, you have a nerve to tell me to do you the courtesy of reading your post when you have actually told me you cannot be bothered to read, let alone answer mine

self righteous much?

I am wondering if we should discuss whether or not your beliefs register on the book of Life since you think the rest of us got it all wrong

maybe you should hold your peace yourself and listen cause you doing what you tell me not to do

further, your notes on public display are indicative of the spirit in which you write your posts. insulting and very telling. who are you to judge the heart of a person being baptized to show they belong to Christ?

perhaps your own show of baptismal works is the actual public display

can't make it up

I am puzzled by your need to attack people. I don't recall attacking or insulting you or anyone else on the site. I agree that I share scripture and my understanding, and that it is different from others. But i do not consider that as attacking people personally.

Did it ever occur to you that I actually share what I see in scripture out of concern because of the eternal consequences involved?

I wanted you to read the entire comment because I was really interested in whether you had ever noticed Peter's comment to the Jewish leaders about not wanting to withstand God regarding water baptism.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Any thoughts about the content of the following scriptures? Please do me the courtesy of reading through the entire comment. Thanks.

Acts 10:47 - Peter asked the other Jews present if they thought it proper to forbid to administer water baptism to those who had received God's Spirit. Why question if it was ok to water baptize someone if water baptism is nothing more than a public display? In answer, God's designed water baptism is much more, it is a baptism of repentance for the remission of sins that opens the door to eternal life. (Mark 1:4)

Acts 11:16-18 - After the events noted in Acts 10, Peter explains to the Jewish leaders that he was not going to withstand God after seeing that God filled them with His Holy Spirit the same way He had them on the Day of Pentecost. What did Peter do in order not to withstand God? He administered water baptism to the Gentiles in the name of the Lord.

"When they heard these things, they held their peace, and glorified God, saying, Then hath God also to the Gentiles granted repentance unto life." Acts 11:18

How about john 3 - 6, ROM 10. And the many passages in acts and other parts of scripture that says faith is what saved. With no mention of baptism.

Your trying to make a doctrine based on a few verses. When people do that, it always ends up in failure.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

As I mentioned to bluto, I think the thing that people don't realize is that it was God's choice to remit sin based on the obedient faith demonstrated in one submitting to water baptism.

Water baptism was not some idea people came up with to try and save themselves. Water baptism was created by God.

Without the shedding of blood. There can be no forgiveness

Even the OT law proves, the remission and atonement came from the sacrifice, not from any baptism.

Once again, you are trying to replace the baptism of God, wiht the baptism which God commanded, but is performed by men.

 

[7seasrekeyed]

I am puzzled by your need to attack people. I don't recall attacking or insulting you or anyone else on the site. I agree that I share scripture and my understanding, and that it is different from others. But i do not consider that as attacking people personally.

Did it ever occur to you that I actually share what I see in scripture out of concern because of the eternal consequences involved?

I wanted you to read the entire comment because I was really interested in whether you had ever noticed Peter's comment to the Jewish leaders about not wanting to withstand God regarding water baptism.

oh stuff it

talk about hypocrisy

get real that's right off the cuff and I didn't pray about it

YOU told me you could not be bothered to read my posts, let alone reply to them

you are unreal. just unreal. what you really want? is for me to kiss your ring and get in line behind you

go have a bath...use lots of soap

the arrogance is beyond the pale

there is no way anyone should take you seriously after this display of 'I am so holy'

 

[7seasrekeyed]

Friday at 10:32 AM
#153
7seasrekeyed said:
you are lost somewhere between faith and works

this is actually startling in it's depth of denial of the effectiveness of the blood of Christ and your heretical insistence that water washes away our sin

it's worse than I thought

maybe you should have listened when you were told not to answer me[/QUOTE]

oops


[QUOTE]Wansvic
Well-known member
Nov 27, 20181,07838083

My response was to correct what you think I believe. Otherwise, I have no interest in commenting on you personally or your posts.

[/QUOTE]

some people try to give the impression their feet do not touch the ground when they walk

I would rather have an honest quarrel with someone than this kind of lukewarm wishy washy whatever it is

 

[7seasrekeyed]

here it is again:

I think the thing that people don't realize is that God remits sin based on the obedient faith demonstrated in one submitting to water
baptism.

now this is what the Bible actually states and why I just got so riled up (apart from the fact of the ad hominum attack, yet again, and which some are so well practiced at)

from the Old Testament:

“For the life of a creature is in the blood, and I have given it to you to make atonement for yourselves on the altar; it is the blood that makes atonement for one’s life.” (Leviticus 17:11)

“In Him we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of His grace” (Ephesians 1:7)

redemption how? by His BLOOD. no bath or shower

“But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far off have been brought near by the blood of Christ.” (Ephesians 2:13)

how have we been brought to the throne of grace? by a water sprinkler? by a water truck? by the Jordan River?
NO. by the BLOOD of Christ


“And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony, and they loved not their lives unto the death.” (Revelation 12:11)

what is the devil overcome by? a water hose? NO, THE BLOOD OF THE LAMB (of God)

and since the oneness crowd likes to quote Peter so much, this is what Peter says about blood and NO baptism:

“Knowing that you were not redeemed with corruptible things, like silver or gold, from your aimless conduct received by tradition from your fathers, but with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot.” (1 Peter 1:18-19)

see that? no water at all. Peter states emphatically that the PRECIOUS BLOOD OF CHRIST alone has redeemed us.

what was used in the Passover in Egypt? did they sprinkle water on their door posts or blood?


this is very very serious. claiming that ANYTHING but the blood of Christ washes away sin is demonic. it is as serious as saying there are many ways to be saved.

so pardon my outburst but folks need to get serious and recognize what is really going on here

this is more than simply a disagreement about a non-salvic doctrine in scripture...this is the CORRUPTION of the gospel and as such,
is following a spirit of error or, what the Bible actually calls a DOCTRINE OF DEMONS

serious as life and death

 

[7seasrekeyed]

Without the shedding of blood. There can be no forgiveness

Even the OT law proves, the remission and atonement came from the sacrifice, not from any baptism.

Once again, you are trying to replace the baptism of God, wiht the baptism which God commanded, but is performed by men.

AMEN

 

[Wansvic]

Friday at 10:32 AM
#153
7seasrekeyed said:
you are lost somewhere between faith and works

this is actually startling in it's depth of denial of the effectiveness of the blood of Christ and your heretical insistence that water washes away our sin

it's worse than I thought

maybe you should have listened when you were told not to answer me

oops


[QUOTE]Wansvic
Well-known member
Nov 27, 20181,07838083

My response was to correct what you think I believe. Otherwise, I have no interest in commenting on you personally or your posts.

[/QUOTE]

some people try to give the impression their feet do not touch the ground when they walk

I would rather have an honest quarrel with someone than this kind of lukewarm wishy washy whatever it is[/QUOTE]My comment that you reference was in response to your statement "maybe you should have listened when you were told not to answer me. I mentioned my only reason for responding. And my comment was not bold and highlighted as you imply.

 

[Wansvic]

here it is again:



now this is what the Bible actually states and why I just got so riled up (apart from the fact of the ad hominum attack, yet again, and which some are so well practiced at)

from the Old Testament:

“For the life of a creature is in the blood, and I have given it to you to make atonement for yourselves on the altar; it is the blood that makes atonement for one’s life.” (Leviticus 17:11)

“In Him we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of His grace” (Ephesians 1:7)

redemption how? by His BLOOD. no bath or shower

“But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far off have been brought near by the blood of Christ.” (Ephesians 2:13)

how have we been brought to the throne of grace? by a water sprinkler? by a water truck? by the Jordan River?
NO. by the BLOOD of Christ


“And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony, and they loved not their lives unto the death.” (Revelation 12:11)

what is the devil overcome by? a water hose? NO, THE BLOOD OF THE LAMB (of God)

and since the oneness crowd likes to quote Peter so much, this is what Peter says about blood and NO baptism:

“Knowing that you were not redeemed with corruptible things, like silver or gold, from your aimless conduct received by tradition from your fathers, but with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot.” (1 Peter 1:18-19)

see that? no water at all. Peter states emphatically that the PRECIOUS BLOOD OF CHRIST alone has redeemed us.

what was used in the Passover in Egypt? did they sprinkle water on their door posts or blood?


this is very very serious. claiming that ANYTHING but the blood of Christ washes away sin is demonic. it is as serious as saying there are many ways to be saved.

so pardon my outburst but folks need to get serious and recognize what is really going on here

this is more than simply a disagreement about a non-salvic doctrine in scripture...this is the CORRUPTION of the gospel and as such,
is following a spirit of error or, what the Bible actually calls a DOCTRINE OF DEMONS

serious as life and death

There would be no salvation without the blood of Jesus. I never stated that.

And again if you don't mind would you please respond to my original post?

Any thoughts?

Acts 10:47 - Peter asked the other Jews present if they thought it proper to forbid to administer water baptism to those who had received God's Spirit. Why question if it was ok to water baptize someone if water baptism is nothing more than a public display? In answer, God's designed water baptism is much more, it is a baptism of repentance for the remission of sins that opens the door to eternal life. (Mark 1:4)

Acts 11:16-18 - After the events noted in Acts 10, Peter explains to the Jewish leaders that he was not going to withstand God after seeing that God filled them with His Holy Spirit the same way He had them on the Day of Pentecost. What did Peter do in order not to withstand God? He administered water baptism to the Gentiles in the name of the Lord.

"When they heard these things, they held their peace, and glorified God, saying, Then hath God also to the Gentiles granted repentance unto life." Acts 11:18

 

[7seasrekeyed]

"mailmandan, post: 3990215, member: 193497"]Amen! In regards to the word "water" in John 3:5, there are those who would argue that the natural sense of the passage parallels "water" with being born out of a mother’s womb (verse 4) and with "flesh" (verse 6). Simply stated in that case, Jesus told Nicodemus that in order to see the kingdom of God two births are necessary. The first is a physical, literal, "flesh" birth (which is, of course, accompanied by amniotic "water") and the second is Spirit.

There are also those who would argue that Jesus mentions "living water" in John 4:10, 14; 7:37-39 and in John 7:38-39, we read - "He who believes in Me, as the Scripture has said, out of his heart will flow rivers of living water. But this He spoke concerning the Spirit. The Holy Spirit is the source of living water and spiritual cleansing. If "water" is arbitrarily defined as baptism, then we could just as justifiably say, "Out of his heart will flow rivers of living baptism" in John 7:38. If this sounds ridiculous, it is no more so than the idea that water baptism is the source or the means of becoming born again.

Yet there are still others who would argue that "water" is used in the Bible as an emblem of the Word of God, and in such uses it is associated with cleansing or washing. (John 15:3; Ephesians 5:26) When we are born again, the Holy Spirit begets new life, Divine life, so that we are said to become "partakers of the divine nature" (2 Peter 1:4). The new birth is brought to pass through "incorruptible seed, by the Word of God, which lives and abides forever" (I Peter 1:23), but the Holy Spirit is the Agent who accomplishes the miracle of regeneration.

So to automatically read "baptism" into John 3:5 simply because it mentions "water" is unwarranted, yet that's what those who promote the false doctrine of baptismal regeneration (including Roman Catholics, Mormons and other works-salvationists) do in order to accommodate their biased church doctrine.

this is a great post and added again for the truth it contains

 

[eternally-gratefull]

There would be no salvation without the blood of Jesus. I never stated that.

And again if you don't mind would you please respond to my original post?

Any thoughts?

Acts 10:47 - Peter asked the other Jews present if they thought it proper to forbid to administer water baptism to those who had received God's Spirit. Why question if it was ok to water baptize someone if water baptism is nothing more than a public display? In answer, God's designed water baptism is much more, it is a baptism of repentance for the remission of sins that opens the door to eternal life. (Mark 1:4)

Acts 11:16-18 - After the events noted in Acts 10, Peter explains to the Jewish leaders that he was not going to withstand God after seeing that God filled them with His Holy Spirit the same way He had them on the Day of Pentecost. What did Peter do in order not to withstand God? He administered water baptism to the Gentiles in the name of the Lord.

"When they heard these things, they held their peace, and glorified God, saying, Then hath God also to the Gentiles granted repentance unto life." Acts 11:18

Your faith is in blood plus baptism, ie faith plus works.

So in reality your faith is not in Christ at all. It is in a work you performed, Which you are boasting in,,//

Not of works lest anyone should boast. You should heed pauls warning.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

"mailmandan, post: 3990215, member: 193497"]Amen! In regards to the word "water" in John 3:5, there are those who would argue that the natural sense of the passage parallels "water" with being born out of a mother’s womb (verse 4) and with "flesh" (verse 6). Simply stated in that case, Jesus told Nicodemus that in order to see the kingdom of God two births are necessary. The first is a physical, literal, "flesh" birth (which is, of course, accompanied by amniotic "water") and the second is Spirit.

There are also those who would argue that Jesus mentions "living water" in John 4:10, 14; 7:37-39 and in John 7:38-39, we read - "He who believes in Me, as the Scripture has said, out of his heart will flow rivers of living water. But this He spoke concerning the Spirit. The Holy Spirit is the source of living water and spiritual cleansing. If "water" is arbitrarily defined as baptism, then we could just as justifiably say, "Out of his heart will flow rivers of living baptism" in John 7:38. If this sounds ridiculous, it is no more so than the idea that water baptism is the source or the means of becoming born again.

Yet there are still others who would argue that "water" is used in the Bible as an emblem of the Word of God, and in such uses it is associated with cleansing or washing. (John 15:3; Ephesians 5:26) When we are born again, the Holy Spirit begets new life, Divine life, so that we are said to become "partakers of the divine nature" (2 Peter 1:4). The new birth is brought to pass through "incorruptible seed, by the Word of God, which lives and abides forever" (I Peter 1:23), but the Holy Spirit is the Agent who accomplishes the miracle of regeneration.

So to automatically read "baptism" into John 3:5 simply because it mentions "water" is unwarranted, yet that's what those who promote the false doctrine of baptismal regeneration (including Roman Catholics, Mormons and other works-salvationists) do in order to accommodate their biased church doctrine.

this is a great post and added again for the truth it contains

Plus

When jesus told him HoW to be born again, He said in truth, God so loved, he gave his only son, that WHOEVER BELIEVES, shall never die, but HAS eternal life.

No baptism was ever mentioned..