Not By Works

[BillG]

smooth is very sarcastic and knows how to wind up by implication.
It fails if you force him to explain what he actually means, and imply a perfectly nice interpretation
which of course was his intent. So the phrase

DeighAnn
"I do so love the laws of God."

Smooth
"But not His grace. How sad."

Smooth means we do not love His grace, we are humbled, brought low, sorrowful, brought to
repentance, grief, sadness, desiring forgiveness, restitution and healing.
Our failure that brings grace hurts so deeply, we desire to learn His ways, His power, His victory
His overcoming, His resurrection by the power of the Holy Spirit.
Thank you smooth for showing us the way, and truly grace is wrapped up in our failure and our
deep need, over which we mourn for ourselves and the world, Amen, glory to God in the Highest.

As Paul says
8 And God is able to make all grace abound to you, so that in all things at all times, having
all that you need, you will abound in every good work.
9 As it is written: "He has scattered abroad his gifts to the poor; his righteousness endures forever."
2 Cor 9

Ahem

Do not fall foul on those you affiliate with.

We will need to learn this.
Me included.

 

[Smooth]

Luke 12:32: “Fear not little flock, for it is your Heavenly Father’s GOOD PLEASURE to give you the kingdom.” The most underrated verse in the entire Bible. But I digress; some insist God cannot be so gracious.

 

[dcontroversal]

You can only speak for yourself. Your lack of Love, hardness of heart and refusal to hear.

You know the teacher in the Peanuts series.....that is what I just heard you say.....because you did not say anything.........maybe you should pay attention to your name and if you have nothing of value or scripturally true to say....just be still........HAHAH

 

[stillness]

Same can be said of you.

Of course, at least you see the point. "Honor all men," does not give any permision to disoner some, who dont agree with us. Leader personalities tend to do this to feel better about themselves and not have to look at their stuff. The Lord just told me: Let it resolve of its own accord. So for confusion that is going om here: not to be involved im the conclict and i encourage otjers to do the same, not to ad fuel to the fire: Let it resolve of its own accord. The Truth of God will prevail. In the last few years, came to see that we are not saved by our understanding of the word, but believing from the heart. "Lean not on your own understanding but trust in the Lord." Enter the wisdom of God. "Christ is made to us wisdom of God." "Believe on the Lord Jesus, then means: believe on the wisdom of God. To enter wisdom of God requires getting past our understanding of what we think we know. We dont know God in our understanding. "In stillness and in returning shall you be saved." "For we are saved if we hold the begining of our confidence steasfast to the end." This rules out eternal security: onces saved always saved, until at the end of your life we can say like Paul, "I have fought a good fight, I have finished my course, I have kept the Faith. From now on there is a crown of righteousness kept for me from the righteous Judge, and not for me only but for all who love His apearing."

 

[stonesoffire]

Grace defined-

Gen 6:8 But Noah H5146  found H4672  grace H2580  in the eyes H5869  of the LORD

This is Old Testament grace.

H2580


חֵן


chên


khane


From H2603; graciousness, that is, subjectively (kindness, favor) or objectively (beauty): - favour, grace (-ious), pleasant, precious, [well-] favoured.


Total KJV occurrences: 69

H2603


חָנַן


chânan


khaw-nan'


A primitive root (compare H2583); properly to bend or stoop in kindness to an inferior; to favor, bestow; causatively to implore (that is, move to favor by petition): - beseech, X fair, (be, find, shew) favour (-able), be (deal, give, grant (gracious (-ly), intreat, (be) merciful, have (shew) mercy (on, upon), have pity upon, pray, make supplication, X very.


Total KJV occurrences: 77

No inward work of God.



N T grace

G5485


χάρις


charis


khar'-ece


From G5463; graciousness (as gratifying), of manner or act (abstract or concrete; literal, figurative or spiritual; especially the divine influence upon the heart, and its reflection in the life; including gratitude): - acceptable, benefit, favour, gift, grace (-ious), joy liberality, pleasure, thank (-s, -worthy).


Total KJV occurrences: 156



The inward work of the new creation man. The power of Holy Spirit who put the flesh to death with Jesus, then raised us (believers) in His resurrection life. Something we all need to realize what we have.

Water baptism then shows by the desire to be baptized, that there has been a change of heart.

Jesus said He knows His sheep. His sheep knows His voice and a stranger we won’t follow.

The Voice is declaring one thing only in this “day”. SON. Hebrews. Paul said...we’ll lets look.


1Co 2:2 For while I was with you I resolved to know nothing except Jesus the Messiah, and him crucified.

 

[FollowHisSteps]

Yawn

Thank you, a simple response.
Unless the response is aggressive and annoyed the sarcasm does not work.
And in conversations, when emotions run high you think the other party is saying something so
clear, except only to you. In reality they are just playing along, prodding the target.

There is no investment here or even interest. The agenda is just objectify, polarise, mock and then
close down. Does not work if you respond, expand, love, demonstrate diversity and options, which
have too many points, and nothing to really grasp, it is just outside of their ability to control.

God bless the Holy Spirit at work in us to bring about victory for the gospel of Christ. Amen

 

[DeighAnn]

I’m looking at the totality of your posts. You simply do not embrace God’s grace for what it is, a free gift.

How very judgmental of you. Was that the topic on hand for them? Or do I need to qualify every post with every thing? Same for the least of us? Same for the most?

 

[VCO]

I still don't get this: why some try to differentiate between fruits and works, or between salvation and rewards ... It is convenient for their "salvation" understanding, I guess ... because in the Scriptures there is NOT any difference: rewards have to do with salvation, and fruits have to do with works ... no matter how much effort some try to put on believing they are not.

You obviously do not KNOW what FRUITS ARE. THEY ARE NOT WORKS.

You obviously do not KNOW that SALVATION HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH REWARDS.


Galatians 5:22-26 (ESV)
22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness,
23 gentleness, self-control; against such things there is no law.
[ THOSE are the dominant lifestyle characteristic once you human spirit has been Born Again to eternal life.]
24 And those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires.
25 If we live by the Spirit, let us also keep in step with the Spirit.
26 Let us not become conceited, provoking one another, envying one another.


SALVATION HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH WORKS or REWARDS, IT IS A FREE GIFT.

Ephesians 2:8-9 (ESV)
8 For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God,
9 not a result of works, so that no one may boast.

Romans 5:15 (ESV)
15 But the free gift is not like the trespass. For if many died through one man’s trespass, much more have the grace of God and the free gift by the grace of that one man Jesus Christ abounded for many.

Romans 11:6 (NASB)
6 But if it is by grace, it is no longer on the basis of works, otherwise grace is no longer grace.

Romans 4:4-5 (NIV)
4 Now when a man works, his wages are not credited to him as a gift, but as an obligation.
5 However, to the man who does not work [FOR SALVATION], but trusts God who justifies the wicked,
his faith is credited as righteousness.


WHAT ARE REWARDS THEN ? ? ?

They are NEVER part of SALVATION and SALVATION IS NOT A REWARD.

REWARDS are NON PERISHABLE CROWNS. Could be GOLD or some other non perishable precious metal. They are given to the Olympic style of games winners of Paul's day. Tradition, the winning athlete is Crowned much the same and modern day Olympic Athletes receive the Medals. The Athlete would walk over to HIS KING seated at the front row, center arena, and then, he would drop to one knee, BOW, taking off his Laurel Wreath perishable Crown, and SAY: "I WON THIS FOR YOU MY KING," and then CAST IT AT HIS KING'S FEET. Now, will we get to do that FOR OUR KING of Kings? Could be.

I the recent GREEK OLYMPICS, they gave out Laurel Wreath Crowns, but in heaven Ours will BE IMPERISHABLE, IT SAYS SO.

1 Corinthians 9:24-27 (ESV)
24 Do you not know that in a race all the runners run, but only one receives the prize? So run that you may obtain it.
25 Every athlete exercises self-control in all things. They do it to receive a perishable wreath,
but we an imperishable.
26 So I do not run aimlessly; I do not box as one beating the air.
27 But I discipline my body and keep it under control, lest after preaching to others I myself should be disqualified.


Here are the CROWNS YOU CAN WIN:

IMPERISHABLE CROWN
CROWN OF REJOICING
CROWN OF RIGHTEOUSNESS
CROWN OF GLORY AND HONOR
CROWN OF LIFE
IN THE APOCRYPHA
CROWN OF JOYFULNESS
CROWN OF THE AGED
CROWN OF WISDOM

4 Maccabees 17:15 (NRSV)
15 Reverence for God was victor and gave the crown to its own athletes.


Paul made several references to the Olympic style of his day. He said we should run to win the race, and we will receive Crowns.

I repeat, that SALVATION is NOT A REWARD or A CROWN. It is a GOD'S FREE GIFT.

 

[stonesoffire]

Of course, at least you see the point. "Honor all men," does not give any permision to disoner some, who dont agree with us. Leader personalities tend to do this to feel better about themselves and not have to look at their stuff. The Lord just told me: Let it resolve of its own accord. So for confusion that is going om here: not to be involved im the conclict and i encourage otjers to do the same, not to ad fuel to the fire: Let it resolve of its own accord. The Truth of God will prevail. In the last few years, came to see that we are not saved by our understanding of the word, but believing from the heart. "Lean not on your own understanding but trust in the Lord." Enter the wisdom of God. "Christ is made to us wisdom of God." "Believe on the Lord Jesus, then means: believe on the wisdom of God. To enter wisdom of God requires getting past our understanding of what we think we know. We dont know God in our understanding. "In stillness and in returning shall you be saved." "For we are saved if we hold the begining of our confidence steasfast to the end." This rules out eternal security: onces saved always saved, until at the end of your life we can say like Paul, "I have fought a good fight, I have finished my course, I have kept the Faith. From now on there is a crown of righteousness kept for me from the righteous Judge, and not for me only but for all who love His apearing."

Stillness

To believe one can be lost can be likened to one hanging over a cliff with nothing but their fingertips gripping. No assurance of Gods faithfulness in His keeping power.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Of course, at least you see the point. "Honor all men," does not give any permision to disoner some, who dont agree with us. Leader personalities tend to do this to feel better about themselves and not have to look at their stuff. The Lord just told me: Let it resolve of its own accord. So for confusion that is going om here: not to be involved im the conclict and i encourage otjers to do the same, not to ad fuel to the fire: Let it resolve of its own accord. The Truth of God will prevail. In the last few years, came to see that we are not saved by our understanding of the word, but believing from the heart. "Lean not on your own understanding but trust in the Lord." Enter the wisdom of God. "Christ is made to us wisdom of God." "Believe on the Lord Jesus, then means: believe on the wisdom of God. To enter wisdom of God requires getting past our understanding of what we think we know. We dont know God in our understanding. "In stillness and in returning shall you be saved." "For we are saved if we hold the begining of our confidence steasfast to the end." This rules out eternal security: onces saved always saved, until at the end of your life we can say like Paul, "I have fought a good fight, I have finished my course, I have kept the Faith. From now on there is a crown of righteousness kept for me from the righteous Judge, and not for me only but for all who love His apearing."

So you have truth, we do not. And thats it

Sorry bro, I have eternal life, they rules out salvation can be lost.

Jesus said I will never hunger anbd thirst, that rules out salvation can be lost

Jesus said I will never die, I will live forever, and he assured me he will raise me (vs have me delievered to him) on the last day. Again, That rules out salvation can be lost

Scripture says I have been sealed by the HS of promise UNTIL the day of redemption (not until I lose salvation if it were possible) so that rules out salvation can be lost

Scripture says I have been justified, it is a completed act. That rules out salvation can be lost

Scripture states he has perfvected me forever, while he is also in the process of sanctifying me that rules out salvation can be lost

Scripture promises he who began a good work in me WILL, not might, complete that work. This rules out salvation can be lost.

I can go on and on and on, but I hope you see a pattern.


So lets look at the word and make it agree with itse;f and not seek for passages we thing prove our point.

 

[FollowHisSteps]

Hi bro.

This is my take on this.
I think it agrees with yours.

Works are an issue but the reasons are.

We only need to look at Galatians 5.

Talking about liberty, love and walking in the spirit.

Galatians 5:13-15
13 For you, brethren, have been called to liberty; only do not use liberty as an opportunity for the flesh, but through love serve one another. 14 For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this: “You shall love your neighbor as yourself.” 15 But if you bite and devour one another, beware lest you be consumed by one another!

So following on we see Paul contrasting walking in the flesh and not the spirit.
If we do not walk in the spirit then we obviously walk in the flesh.

Now if we walk in the spirit then we crucify the flesh.

For ourselves that is a good.
One that is for us.

But as we decrease in the flesh then our works increase.
Works of the Spirit as a result of fruit growing. (Side note everyone it's not fruits but fruit)

Such works will not be burned up.
Works outside of the fruit will be burned up.

For me the reason being

Galatians 5:22-23
22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness, self-control. Against such there is no law.

Galatians 5:14
14 For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this: “You shall love your neighbor as yourself.”

LOVE, LOVE AND MORE LOVE.

If it ain't out of love then it's useless and nothing but kindling.

Hi Bill,

You talk about propoganda and accepting viewpoints and agendas.
I remember I had a conversation with EG about being yoked to Jesus. He at first condemned me for this,
then next changed to he agreed with it.

So certain individuals I have zero trust in what they say or share, it is a man made construction which tomorrow
is different. This is what I call spiritual blindness. If you say love is hate, then for me the book is closed.

The other point is love as fruit of the Holy Spirit is fine, but clearly what people believe is repentance, sorrow
for evil, is very different. People who have been to prison with seriously evil and deranged people know the
difference between evil and hatred and love and desiring the best. Churched people appear to live in this
weird bubble of a doctrine or view means you are doomed to hell and worst than the worst.

Unfortunately this luke warm faith tempts persecution and hard times. The Lord hates this dilution of the truth,
dragged away Israel to exile, took away the church in Laodicia, and has seen many problems fall on many lives.
What many may be unaware of is the future is more uncertain now, and we live under grace and peace like never
before in history which will not last. But then in 20 years we can look back and see how the Lord judged and
blessed, to bring about His will and purposes. God bless you

 

[VCO]

1st Corinthians 3........what is left after the wood, hay and stubble gets burnt?.....NOTHING but they are STILL SAVED.......the bible is taken in a whole.....surely you know this.....!!

NOW You are giving CREDENCE to those who think we need to work for our SALVATION, and I know you do not want to DO THAT:

1 Corinthians 3:15 (HCSB)
15 If anyone’s work is burned up, it will be lost, but he will be saved; yet it will be like an escape through fire.


Nope, NO FRUIT, NO SALVATION. The wood, hay, and stubble, PART of the FOURTH SOIL, have to be part of True Believers, even though they DID not Run to Win the Race, very small FRUIT.

 

[FollowHisSteps]

So you have truth, we do not. And thats it
Sorry bro, I have eternal life, they rules out salvation can be lost.
Jesus said I will never hunger anbd thirst, that rules out salvation can be lost
Jesus said I will never die, I will live forever, and he assured me he will raise me (vs have me delievered to him) on the last day. Again, That rules out salvation can be lost
Scripture says I have been sealed by the HS of promise UNTIL the day of redemption (not until I lose salvation if it were possible) so that rules out salvation can be lost
Scripture says I have been justified, it is a completed act. That rules out salvation can be lost
Scripture states he has perfvected me forever, while he is also in the process of sanctifying me that rules out salvation can be lost
Scripture promises he who began a good work in me WILL, not might, complete that work. This rules out salvation can be lost.
I can go on and on and on, but I hope you see a pattern.
So lets look at the word and make it agree with itse;f and not seek for passages we thing prove our point.

Jesus said I will never die,

What did Jesus actually say.
25 Jesus said to her, "I am the resurrection and the life. He who believes in me will live, even though he dies;
26 and whoever lives and believes in me will never die. "
John 11

So Jesus promised those who believes in Him and lives will never die.
So it is conditional on believing in Him.

So no belief, no living, death.
And it is not a personal statement linked to an individual it is linked to a group who
individually fulfil the promise.

Even Paul never presumed like this example, and Paul is an example of our walk in Christ
which Paul calls us to follow. This alone should cause conviction and pause for thought,
but for folk such as these, only more anger and resentment. They are the super apostles,
able to handle all comers. God bless them all, for we will all answer for the freedoms we
took while under the Lords grace, amen.

 

[FollowHisSteps]

You obviously do not KNOW what FRUITS ARE. THEY ARE NOT WORKS.
You obviously do not KNOW that SALVATION HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH REWARDS.

Fruits are the result of Christs work in our hearts, which include good works.
Salvation is the reward for working faith. No working faith no salvation.

 

[dcontroversal]

NOW You are giving CREDENCE to those who think we need to work for our SALVATION, and I know you do not want to DO THAT:

1 Corinthians 3:15 (HCSB)
15 If anyone’s work is burned up, it will be lost, but he will be saved; yet it will be like an escape through fire.


Nope, NO FRUIT, NO SALVATION. The wood, hay, and stubble, PART of the FOURTH SOIL, have to be part of True Believers, even though they DID not Run to Win the Race, very small FRUIT.

Not hardly pal........and too be frank.......your first line is idiotic.....and your last line is a joke....NOTHING is left....it does not say very small fruit is left....wow....talk about embellishing

 

[FollowHisSteps]

Ahem

Do not fall foul on those you affiliate with.

We will need to learn this.
Me included.

I am sorry if you have had a bad experience with another member.
I cannot follow all these ups and downs, so I hope you can understand I do not know what you
are referring to. What is your issue?

From my perspective you associate with members who compromise areas I cannot associate with
or agree any fellowship with.

The principle of repentence for believers with grief, sorrow and reconciliation, if mocked, for me
is heretical. I want no part with believers who are happy to be with those who abide in sin or
do so themselves. I can grieve for the loss of such believers, but I doubt they ever knew what
repentance truly is to end in this place.

Today sarcasm about a lack of love, living in sin, a lack of faith, is typical of the unredeemed.
I know the world and its ways, so it is easy to spot unbelievers taking the guise of faith.
What is clear is it does not matter, the elect walk on in love and joy. We just share what we
know because it is joy unspeakable shinning in our hearts. Praise the Lord.

 

[DeighAnn]

Like living water. .


1 Corinthians 3:10 According to the grace of God which is given unto me, as a wise masterbuilder, I have laid the foundation, and another buildeth thereon. But let every man take heed how he buildeth thereupon.
Build- work
1 Corinthians 3:11 For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ.
Jesus - He is our foundation
1 Corinthians 3:12 Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble;
The work you produce is going to be tested by fire
1 Corinthians 3:13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.
You best hope your work when made manifest and revealed by fire that it be the sort GOD is looking for
1 Corinthians 3:14 If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.
Any mans work that abides WILL RECEIVE A REWARD - that is the kind of work you want to do
1 Corinthians 3:15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.
If you are not building upon the foundation of Jesus Christ, and His words, YOUR WORK SHALL BE BURNED , THOUGH YOU WILL be saved. ouch, no reward for bad work ONLY GOOD WORKS RECEIVE REWARD
1 Corinthians 3:16 Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?
Can you feel the Spirit of God dwelling within you?
1 Corinthians 3:17 If any man defile the temple of God, Him shall God destroy for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are. DONT DEFILE THE TEMPLE OF GOD, BECAUSE HIM SHALL GOD DESTROY FOR THE TEMPLE OF GOD IS HOLY, WHICH TEMPLE YE ARE.

BELONG TO GOD WHO WILL REWARD YOU.



IN THE GREEK = IF OF ANYONE THE WORK WILL REMAIN WHICH HE BUILT UP, A REWARD HE WILL RECEIVE

 

[FollowHisSteps]

NOW You are giving CREDENCE to those who think we need to work for our SALVATION, and I know you do not want to DO THAT:

1 Corinthians 3:15 (HCSB)
15 If anyone’s work is burned up, it will be lost, but he will be saved; yet it will be like an escape through fire.


Nope, NO FRUIT, NO SALVATION. The wood, hay, and stubble, PART of the FOURTH SOIL, have to be part of True Believers, even though they DID not Run to Win the Race, very small FRUIT.

vco will not read this, on ignore list.
But when you know face to face preaching to prisoners you know what evil looks like.
And you know what scheming ,,,,, people they can be.

So if a few words are enough for eternal life with zero fruit, this is so absurd, everyone can be
saved. But this speaks of such evil and contradiction of a perfect heaven for Gods redeemed people
no one can rationally agree with this.

Our hearts define our thoughts. When our hearts say no not possible we find justification for our position.

This should caution anyone. God will judge us for our consistency and why we held things the way we did.
Know this, on this day of judgement, nothing will be hidden, no excuses, no ifs or buts, just light.
A member said a warning I gave to TT was unfair and an attempt to scare someone.

Only a fool would not be scared and cautious to meet the Father.
You thought an exam was hard, this is total reality. And if we are an empty shell with
no foundation in Christ, our destiny is the lake of fire. What does it matter if you can
con those on cc and in your group, when before the Lord the truth is seen all the time.

And the magic key is belief in Jesus, but about what and why?
Passive faith and agreement with God. But about what? We need God to change us?
Or we need to repent, to commit to righteousness, to follow Jesus and learn from Him?

It is for some just a supernatural birth of an eternal spirit, and deal done.
The rediculous nature of this is its simplicity and ignoring Jesus and His teaching.
Now the excusers of the theology claim their teaching gives no excuses, but testimony
after testimony of believers who followed this exactly until Jesus opened the door to true
repentance and faith in the cross, walkin in obedience and in Jesus.

Nothing makes this clearer when terms like easy believism are defended as if believers
are jealous or hate the acceptance of sinners as forgiven without any fruit.
As Paul says this is not faith.

20 I preached that they should repent and turn to God and prove their repentance by their deeds.
Acts 26

 

[dcontroversal]

Every time I read what a previously banned deceitful deceptive member writes I thank God for not only the ignore button, but also the God given brain I have to be able to discern the truth from worldly, false, twisted psycho babel.....such a liar!!!

 

[DeighAnn]

Did I miss another post? Could you let me know the number? I searched for it to answer the questions you say you posed that I did not have the courtesy to answer. Please let me know so I can attend to this ASAP. If I missed the questions in the above posts, Please know it is not on purpose I have read them over and am not seeing them.

Been a few of my post that you have missed.
In fact I thought you had me on ignore.

I will leave you to go back and find them.
Go to post 104,808 and work back.
That's what I tend to do.

Go back a bit further.
To see my responses to you.[/QUOTE]
I posted the 4 posts in post 104,808.