Not By Works

[BillG]

But how could men not believe that is what would happen with it? That that is in fact the general nature of man.
And we are the ones who would be held responsible for it. Those who teach it, those who let it go.

One example,
The weak in faith believe the teaching, without seeking out the truth, forever convinced they are covered, when in fact, they are not actually saved. They have been told they are saved. They themselves believe they are saved. So now we find that anything that may sent them back to seek out the word is washed away in the conviction they are covered under OSAS. They miss it all.

The excuse that they were never really saved doesn't help because THEY DONT KNOW THAT. We do. We are sitting here talking about it, They on the other hand, with their false sense of security, will never seek out the Word again. They don't know that our God is a God that opens up the ground and swallows people alive that go against Him.
That He came to the earth to right HIS LAWS Himself and that the people were to scared to listen directly to Him so they had Moses do it. That it is not a casual thing.

If once you were saved you stayed that way I would have no problem. But the parable of the sower flat out tells us, that isn't true. So we shouldn't teach it.

Ok you take two sentences that I made concerning my understanding that people use to understand that OSAS means we can sin all we want.

And I rejected that and said myself I reject it.

So now you come back with the above.

Your focus and point is evident.
You have no desire to discuss but berate what you think with disregard to those who are not greasy gracers.

You did not even have the courtesy to address other points I raised in post to you.

Me and many others on here do not preach what you accuse us off.

You didn't even bother to answer my question concerning baptism saves and then we received baptism in the Holy Spirit saves.

Even when I said I disagree with that but are we both saved?



You didnt even have the courtesy to reply to my response you made where you intimated that even if we disagree on doctrine are we not saved, are we not covered.


Go read my post concerning what we preach and the consequences.

At the very minimum please show some respect and answer and talk with those that try to engage with.

The very people you accuse of not wishing to engage with you but try to.
You need to reciprocate.



At least offer that courtesy that you want for you.

 

[BillG]

But how could men not believe that is what would happen with it? That that is in fact the general nature of man.
And we are the ones who would be held responsible for it. Those who teach it, those who let it go.

Go read Martyn Lloyd Jones.

He addresses this.
Just like I do and many on here do.
Romans 5-6.

We address that grace is not license to sin.
Said it many times myself and many more here the same.

But you have an agenda.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Go read Martyn Lloyd Jones.

He addresses this.
Just like I do and many on here do.
Romans 5-6.

We address that grace is not license to sin.
Said it many times myself and many more here the same.

But you have an agenda.

They can not seem to understand, because they do not have any desire to. They were taught what we believe, and the people who taught them are more trustworthy than us, so they are ore believable..

Its quite sad actually

 

[Smooth]

I do so love the laws of God.

But not His grace. How sad.

 

[OneOfHis]

They can not seem to understand, because they do not have any desire to. They were taught what we believe, and the people who taught them are more trustworthy than us, so they are ore believable..

Its quite sad actually

If someone hears of the true gospel and the eternal security promised to Gods children, they know it is not a license to sin.


Our Father chastens us.


If my parents told me not to steal and then I steal a cookie, would these folk say my parents gave me a license to steal when they don't disown me and throw me in fire?

It's ridiculous and never said by someone who is genuine.

My Father in heaven chastens me for errors even more effectively than my earthly parents, but I am still His son.


Hebrews 12

5 And ye have forgotten the exhortation which speaketh unto you as unto children, My son, despise not thou the chastening of the Lord, nor faint when thou art rebuked of him:

6 For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth.

7 If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not?

8 But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons.
_______

God chastens ALL of His own. That means ALL of His own fail and need to be corrected.

These folk who think that salvation is a reward and call Gods promises a license to sin need to start looking at themselves more honestly and see how much they need Jesus even on their best day.

 

[Smooth]

You shhould tel that to the Apostle James who wrote this and died for his faith. He also explaind whay pure religion is in the folloing verse. "To visit (care for) the fayherless and widows and to keek ourselves ourselves unspoted from the world.

If James didn’t know then there’s no point in telling him now

 

[eternally-gratefull]

If someone hears of the true gospel and the eternal security promised to Gods children, they know it is not a license to sin.


Our Father chastens us.


If my parents told me not to steal and then I steal a cookie, would these folk say my parents gave me a license to steal when they don't disown me and throw me in fire?

It's ridiculous and never said by someone who is genuine.

My Father in heaven chastens me for errors even more effectively than my earthly parents, but I am still His son.


Hebrews 12

5 And ye have forgotten the exhortation which speaketh unto you as unto children, My son, despise not thou the chastening of the Lord, nor faint when thou art rebuked of him:

6 For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth.

7 If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not?

8 But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons.
_______

God chastens ALL of His own. That means ALL of His own fail and need to be corrected.

These folk who think that salvation is a reward and call Gods promises a license to sin need to start looking at themselves more honestly and see how much they need Jesus even on their best day.

We love sin and Hate gods commands.

Get so sick of hearing these lies.. You thoroughly showed why we do not love sin. And why we love God.

 

[DeighAnn]

I was not trying to entrap you at all.
I did ask for your thoughts.
So I was looking to converse with you.
As I could not see a response that was clear concerning returning back I could only make an assumption on what I thought you were saying.
Which was yes they could repent and return.
Hence me quoting Hebrews which says otherwise.
So if you thought I was trying to trap you that was not my intention.Yet look at the reply
All I can do is talk/converse with you and respond to try and bring some clarity.
Trust me entrapment and to entrap is not the way I work and walk.

trust you?
Is this the post?

@DeighAnn
Ref Hebrews?
No I believe in repentance and the infinite value of the Blood of Christ.
As you say above.
Your response whether a believer can fall away and could or not come back to Jesus..

or this one
Trust me entrapment and to entrap is not the way I work and walk.[/QUOTE]

I read your post above this morning.
It's been on my mind all day.
Firstly if I am honest I really do not think Mii was questioning your salvation.
Mii Just a question asked.
And to be honest I wanted to ask that question.
You obviously believe that OSAS is not doctrinally correct.
And you know what?
So do I.
But maybe the understanding we have with this doctrine is different.
I don't even like the term OSAS given how it has been presented today and interpreted.
It's not a license to sin.
It's not an excuse to sit on your backside and watch the world go by.
So I do not like the term OSAS but do agree with eternal security.
I am not a greasy gracers.
I believe we are saved by faith and confession of Jesus and his resurrection and make him Lord of our lives.
The Holy Spirit came to convict us of sin.
Jesus said that this sin was unbelief in him.
We repent of that and confess and believe in our hearts.
Then we walk in the works prepared for us from the beginning of time.
But I do not believe those works save us.
I read a post of yours a few pages back.
If memory serves it was something along the lines of even though we have difference in doctrine can I say I am not saved and vice versa.
Can not both sides be saved?Yes both sides can be saved
You have your thoughts what saves and does not save.
One of your posts mentioned baptism in water to receive baptism in the Holy Spirt.
Does that mean baptism saves? God saves
If I disagree am I saved or not? If God saves, there is nothing a man must or must not do. God can do any thing He wants, Are you saved? Only God can tell you that, no man.
This is not baiting you.
Correct me if I got this wrong.
Sorry meant to make my response short, but gone on a bit.
To finish what has been bothering me today is that you feel that you have been judged concerning your salvation.
Maybe not saved or you are not saved.
We can't judge that.
Only Jesus can judge that.
We all need to leave it up to him.

Ok you take two sentences that I made concerning my understanding that people use to understand that OSAS means we can sin all we want.
And I rejected that and said myself I reject it.
So now you come back with the above.
Your focus and point is evident.
You have no desire to discuss but berate what you think with disregard to those who are not greasy gracers.
You did not even have the courtesy to address other points I raised in post to you.
Me and many others on here do not preach what you accuse us off.
You didn't even bother to answer my question concerning baptism saves and then we received baptism in the Holy Spirit saves.
Even when I said I disagree with that but are we both saved?
You didnt even have the courtesy to reply to my response you made where you intimated that even if we disagree on doctrine are we not saved, are we not covered.
Go read my post concerning what we preach and the consequences.
At the very minimum please show some respect and answer and talk with those that try to engage with.
The very people you accuse of not wishing to engage with you but try to.
You need to reciprocate.
At least offer that courtesy that you want for you.

Did I miss another post? Could you let me know the number? I searched for it to answer the questions you say you posed that I did not have the courtesy to answer. Please let me know so I can attend to this ASAP. If I missed the questions in the above posts, Please know it is not on purpose I have read them over and am not seeing them.

 

[DeighAnn]

But not His grace. How sad.

Please let me know where I said I didn't love His Grace.

 

[FollowHisSteps]

It's crazy how people can decieve themselves into thinking they can earn what God gives freely by grace through faith....
Sorry to break it to you folks, but you couldn't hope to earn salvation even if only judging your best day.
Praise God for His mercy.

Now what is strange, is how people project what they believe another believes.
Until one gives up understanding another but waiting for them to explain their heart, you
will never see them.

It takes time to hear each individual, to know their story and language and faith reflects this.
Each is different. Unfortunately often the baggage of conflict, theology, assumptions hides the
real layers beneath. When someone assumes a group think they are being self righteous, you
know someone is not listening.

 

[DeighAnn]

If James didn’t know then there’s no point in telling him now

Flesh man
2189 echthra enmity, hostility, alienation

2054 eris strife, contention, wrangling Literally quarrel, properly a rediness to quarrel , having a contentious spirit, affection for dispute

 

[Smooth]

Please let me know where I said I didn't love His Grace.

You proclaimed your love for God’s laws but were silent about his grace. That says it all.

 

[FollowHisSteps]

Yep. Thats true religion
The only issue is religion will never save anyone, Only Grace will save people..
Religion apart from salvation is self righteousness. Which will only lead to despair when you realise you missed the most important part.

Here in lies a fundamental difference of interpretation.
James is saying our worship and good works in Christ Jesus is to support orphans and widows.

EG appears to be saying James is condemning this behaviour as religious self righteousness.

It is interesting because to us this is clearly an encouragement of what works of love are, not
as a way of saying people are hypocrites trying to earn salvation from God.

If any individual cannot see both views, and know how love works in the heart, then agreement
or fellowship cannot be achieved. All one ends up doing is falsely accusing those reaching out
in love to the needy as doing evil works from the flesh, which is certainly not of God to do.

God desires all, believers and non-believers to do loving good works and to share in His will
and intention throughout creation. God bless you

 

[BillG]

They can not seem to understand, because they do not have any desire to. They were taught what we believe, and the people who taught them are more trustworthy than us, so they are ore believable..

Its quite sad actually

Feel foul myself of that.

Kept the t-shirt.
Just to remind me of the lies I was fed.

Was told once because I didn't speak in tongues it was evidence I wasn't saved because I wasnt fully immersed in water therefore not baptised in the Holy Spirit.

Funny thing is my Baptism was by full immersion.
But they never asked.

But that is what I believed.

Interesting that some say you must be baptized in water to be saved yet some say that you must be be baptized in water in order to be baptized in the Holy Spirit in order to be saved evidence by tongues and so on.

Or maybe we do not receive the Holy Spirit until we are baptised.
Just as bad.

 

[DeighAnn]

You proclaimed your love for God’s laws but were silent about his grace. That says it all.

I need to qualify every love I have, to state one? Do you treat everyone this way? Well, I sure not those you love? But where does that get you as far as the kingdom of Heaven goes? You just need to be mean. And you are a very flesh led person.
It says way more about you.

 

[Smooth]

I need to qualify every love I have, to state one? Do you treat everyone this way? Well, I sure not those you love? But where does that get you as far as the kingdom of Heaven goes? You just need to be mean. And you are a very flesh led person.
It says way more about you.

I’m looking at the totality of your posts. You simply do not embrace God’s grace for what it is, a free gift.

 

[BillG]

trust you?
Is this the post?

or this one
Trust me entrapment and to entrap is not the way I work and walk.

Did I miss another post? Could you let me know the number? I searched for it to answer the questions you say you posed that I did not have the courtesy to answer. Please let me know so I can attend to this ASAP. If I missed the questions in the above posts, Please know it is not on purpose I have read them over and am not seeing them. [/QUOTE]

Been a few of my post that you have missed.
In fact I thought you had me on ignore.

I will leave you to go back and find them.
Go to post 104,808 and work back.
That's what I tend to do.

Go back a bit further.
To see my responses to you.

 

[FollowHisSteps]

Please let me know where I said I didn't love His Grace.

smooth is very sarcastic and knows how to wind up by implication.
It fails if you force him to explain what he actually means, and imply a perfectly nice interpretation
which of course was his intent. So the phrase

DeighAnn
"I do so love the laws of God."

Smooth
"But not His grace. How sad."

Smooth means we do not love His grace, we are humbled, brought low, sorrowful, brought to
repentance, grief, sadness, desiring forgiveness, restitution and healing.
Our failure that brings grace hurts so deeply, we desire to learn His ways, His power, His victory
His overcoming, His resurrection by the power of the Holy Spirit.
Thank you smooth for showing us the way, and truly grace is wrapped up in our failure and our
deep need, over which we mourn for ourselves and the world, Amen, glory to God in the Highest.

As Paul says
8 And God is able to make all grace abound to you, so that in all things at all times, having
all that you need, you will abound in every good work.
9 As it is written: "He has scattered abroad his gifts to the poor; his righteousness endures forever."
2 Cor 9

 

[Smooth]

smooth is very sarcastic and knows how to wind up by implication.
It fails if you force him to explain what he actually means, and imply a perfectly nice interpretation
which of course was his intent. So the phrase

DeighAnn
"I do so love the laws of God."

Smooth
"But not His grace. How sad."

Smooth means we do not love His grace, we are humbled, brought low, sorrowful, brought to
repentance, grief, sadness, desiring forgiveness, restitution and healing.
Our failure that brings grace hurts so deeply, we desire to learn His ways, His power, His victory
His overcoming, His resurrection by the power of the Holy Spirit.
Thank you smooth for showing us the way, and truly grace is wrapped up in our failure and our
deep need, over which we mourn for ourselves and the world, Amen, glory to God in the Highest.

As Paul says
8 And God is able to make all grace abound to you, so that in all things at all times, having
all that you need, you will abound in every good work.
9 As it is written: "He has scattered abroad his gifts to the poor; his righteousness endures forever."
2 Cor 9

Yawn 😴 💤

 

[dcontroversal]

No, the context sounds to me they are choked out, or withered away, before any fruit can form.

No fruit, not a Christian.

1st Corinthians 3........what is left after the wood, hay and stubble gets burnt?.....NOTHING but they are STILL SAVED.......the bible is taken in a whole.....surely you know this.....!!