Did Jesus ever tell us that we no longer need to keep the law of Moses?

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Grandpa

Senior Member
Jun 24, 2011
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I don't "work at the law" that is a term law tossers use. The law is within me. The law works in me. I don't deny the law. I believe the law was written within me so that I could not deny it. It is not "work" YOU THINK IT IS WORK. You need to call it work because "works" are also considered bad because you think that people are "working towards their salvation" like they can't figure out it is a gift, just like you figured out it is a gift. But because you do not want to be "responsible" for your sins, you must get rid of the law, or consider it dead because the law of Moses is dead. WHICH I AGREE WITH. THE LAW OF MOSES IS DEAD. I just understand that the law of the kingdom of God is what was EXPECTED TO COME FROM THE SHADOW. The shadow didn't disappear. The schoolmaster taught FOR A REASON. We weren't taught all about it so that when Jesus came there would be "NOTHING" it was a foreshadow of "SOMETHING" THIS IS all just the most basic of common sense. I am willing to bet that you can't write what my beliefs are about the law still. You can't comprehend what I believe because it does no suit you.

1 I believe Jesus gave us commandments we are to abide by and I believe when we don't
"IT IS SIN" I believe this New Covenant was brought about by the blood of Christ to aid us in being better people. I do not believe I am made better through osmosis, I believe it is a conscience effort.
2. There is no more law of Moses, Jesus hung the law of Moses on the 2 commandments, there fore when I say the law is in me and I follow the law, given by Jesus, and the law of Moses works within me because they are written upon my heart and mind.
3. I do not 'WORK" at the law. I know that you can't comprehend that because I have said it so many times it is like telling a big black hole that sucks the information in but nothing comes out. You must say I "do" but I don't. I accept that God expects me to fully abide by it and I am forever grateful that it abides within me.
4. I believe a shadow of things to come, means something is coming.
5 I believe when the school master is done teaching, you were taught something and when the "something" arrives that you were taught to do, you don't act like it doesn't exist, you put your skills to work.
6 I believe the law Jesus brought was a law of life and forgiveness and paid heavily to give me that gift for which I am eternally grateful.
7 I am also eternally grateful for the common sense the wisdom and knowledge of God gives me to "see and hear" the things of God and to love all He has blessed me with in this life.


In conclusion
No more law of sin and death once called law of Moses, the Old Covenant REPLACED by Jesus law of kingdom of God, life and forgiveness, the New Covenant, for which I am eternally grateful

A person who loves God doesn't "WoRK" at the law, they live gloriously, the law within them.

I am eternally grateful for the Law and for the schoolmaster and the shadow of what was to come as they all proclaimed Jesus.

I understand YOU refuse to acknowledge me as an individual and you only see me as an "opponent of your theology" and as such can not see or hear the truths I tell, and as such have no love or respect for me whatsoever, as I don't exist to you.

What I don't understand is how you call someone who loves the law of God, lawless and wicked, and someone who denies the law of God as lawful.
Not sure why you addressed me with all this. It is scripture that you have the argument with.

It looks to me like you are highly confused on what the difference is between the "law of God" and the 10 commandments.

Lots of legalists and judaizers have this same problem and same excuse for working at the law.

But for sure God is not mocked. What a person sows that is what they will reap.

Galatians 3:11-12
11 But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith.

12 And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them.
 

Grandpa

Senior Member
Jun 24, 2011
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So then You took this sentence and decided that because "righteousness" doesn't come by the law, it is good for nothing? MAYBE ALL THE sentence was saying was "righteousness" doesn't come by the law. Is righteousness all there is for you? You don't think that there is maybe a lot more about the law then to attain your righteousness?
I guess you didn't notice what was bolded in that scripture?

It wasn't righteousness. It was I do not frustrate the Grace of God.

The law is great for bringing people to Christ so they can know Grace. After that it has served its purpose. Its not for the Christian.

Galatians 5:1 Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage.

IF you don't like the way Paul said it here is Peters version;

2 Peter 3:17 Ye therefore, beloved, seeing ye know these things before, beware lest ye also, being led away with the error of the wicked, fall from your own stedfastness.
 

DeighAnn

Banned Serpent Seed Heresy
Jun 11, 2019
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You can't do that, DeighAnn!

As methinks you will be accused of "works for salvation", or "works in the maintaining" of your salvation!

In the midst of the "salvation is by Grace THROUGH faith ALONE" crowd!

The "earnest coveting", & the "diligently seeking" of "Higher Spiritual Gifts", is certainly NOT A MANDATE! Nor, is it ENCOURAGED!

And WOE to those who do!

And, it's not because I don't think, nor believe that the "body of Christ" is a "many membered" body. No! Not at all!

But, THIS is what is seen! Time and time again!
1 Corinthians 12
6 And there are diversities of operations, but it is the SAME God which worketh all in all.
21 And the eye cannot say unto the hand, I have no need of thee: nor again the head to the feet, I have no need of you.

But yet? REJECTED!

It' as though Christ's words? On which HANGS ALL the law and the Prophets, has been taken away! To be placed on Christ ALONE! And just as "the "law" was pointing TO Christ? Christ was trying to POINT "back TO His Father!" -smh
You are right. Back to the same old lesson, today.

Salvation is a gift.
You can not work toward it.
And if you do you
will be viewed,
as just a lunatic.

No work of any kind
have you lost your mind
just rest this way
and you'll be saved
don't you feel sublime


This way we can be sure to never move forward in the Word of God. We can all stay milk babies, year after year after year after year after year after year
 

Dan_473

Senior Member
Mar 11, 2014
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After all of our discussion and round and round on the same topic, so i think it is a wise recommendation that you should consult with the Holy Spirit in scripture for the answers you bring to me. I think if you are sincere and patient you will receive your answers.

Joh 16:13 KJV Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.

1Jn 2:27 KJV But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.

With these scriptures in mind, if you will humble yourself and offer up any of the doctrines you learned from other men or churches you may be offered an opportunity to repent from the doctrines that are not of God

Again, you would find peace then.
Well, it's a minor thing, but just to clarify this, my post was an answer that I brought to you only in the sense that you and I are both on the same thread. The post that I wrote was tailored to the context of the line of thinking related to what Deade had written.

Yes, I do consult with the holy spirit in Scripture!

But, the spirit doesn't usually tell me what other people mean if it's unclear to me, so I often ask them follow up questions.

So in this case, it was my first impression that Deade was saying one thing to Marcello and something different to me. But Deade strikes me as a pretty clear thinking individual, so it made sense to me to put effort into figuring out what he was saying, because maybe I had misunderstood.

What the spirit has shown me at this time is that Christians in general are not to follow the letter of the law. We are to follow the intention, the big picture, the goal of the law.

That's what's talked about here
Galatians 5: 14. For the whole law is fulfilled in one word, in this: "You shall love your neighbor as yourself."

But even that commandment, I don't focus on the letters. For example I don't try to figure out who exactly is my neighbor, as the lawyer did and I think it is the Gospel of Luke where Jesus tells the story of the Good Samaritan.

And I do have peace! It's part of the fruit of the spirit, thanks be to God!
 
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I "applaud" this response. As it sounds so much like "boasting AGAINST the branches!"

It "grieves" me that Israel, aka God's Holy Priesthood "fell" so far out of way, as to God having to DIVORCE Israel?
Just as it "grieves" me that God, HAD to send Jesus Christ, to be born of flesh, and endure, all the trials and tribulations that ALL "born of water", are here to endure, in the PROVING
that, it CAN BE DONE!

Something to be said concerning God's knowing the "end...from the beginning!"

That's why I always "wonder" about believers who "confidently, almost to the point of arrogantly" say "I've read the BACK of the Book!" "God WINS!"

Because the scribes & pharasee's BELIEVED THAT VERY THING!

To which I believe is reflected in my postings:

They WERE 50% correct with that remark!

Greetings NayborBear,

Good to hear from you! Well, my sharing that scripture now puts me in the hot seat. I pray I never walk that walk of looking down, BUT IF I DO Please help me!

You know when I hear the argument that if you break only one law you are guilt of all! I wonder why, if a man recognizes the Laws as good and right and just would they ever not want to keep them regardless of the terms? I mean, I have heard everyone I know of on here who they slanderously call judiazers say that they are justified by the grace of God through faith in Jesus' work on the cross. But they refuse to hear them! So the only conclusion I can make is that they hold anyone, who by the Holy Spirit has been brought to a place of loving Gods Laws in contempt! This is persecuting men for righteousness sake! Re;

Mat 5:10 KJV Blessed are they which are persecuted for righteousness sake: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.


No matter how many times we hold out an olive branch of peace by sharing our understanding of Grace they smack it down and call us Judaizers. Rejoice at this persecution though.
 

DeighAnn

Banned Serpent Seed Heresy
Jun 11, 2019
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I guess you didn't notice what was bolded in that scripture?

It wasn't righteousness. It was I do not frustrate the Grace of God.

The law is great for bringing people to Christ so they can know Grace. After that it has served its purpose. Its not for the Christian.

Galatians 5:1 Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage.

IF you don't like the way Paul said it here is Peters version;

2 Peter 3:17 Ye therefore, beloved, seeing ye know these things before, beware lest ye also, being led away with the error of the wicked, fall from your own stedfastness.
ok
 

Grandpa

Senior Member
Jun 24, 2011
11,551
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It's really simple. All one has to do is go back in the earlier chapters of the very same letter to see what Peter says about it. He explains what he means. It's not a long letter so I encourage you to read from chapter 1 through to the end and see what Peter says is the error.

I would be happy to show you that Peter says the same things as Paul says.

I could explain whatever it is you think Peter is saying that contradicts Paul.

I thought I pretty much did. But if you want more just continue to post the scripture that you think encourages the Christian to go back to the law for their justification or righteousness or ongoing sanctification from Peter.
 

Marcelo

Senior Member
Feb 4, 2016
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As far as which law or laws, or commandments, or conditions, one feels compelled to do? Ask Him who sent Christ!
The list is here:
(Acts 15:19)

abstain:
from food polluted by idols,
from sexual immorality,
from the meat of strangled animals
and from blood.
 

DeighAnn

Banned Serpent Seed Heresy
Jun 11, 2019
2,436
760
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Well, it's a minor thing, but just to clarify this, my post was an answer that I brought to you only in the sense that you and I are both on the same thread. The post that I wrote was tailored to the context of the line of thinking related to what Deade had written.

Yes, I do consult with the holy spirit in Scripture!

But, the spirit doesn't usually tell me what other people mean if it's unclear to me, so I often ask them follow up questions.

So in this case, it was my first impression that Deade was saying one thing to Marcello and something different to me. But Deade strikes me as a pretty clear thinking individual, so it made sense to me to put effort into figuring out what he was saying, because maybe I had misunderstood.

What the spirit has shown me at this time is that Christians in general are not to follow the letter of the law. We are to follow the intention, the big picture, the goal of the law.

That's what's talked about here
Galatians 5: 14. For the whole law is fulfilled in one word, in this: "You shall love your neighbor as yourself."

But even that commandment, I don't focus on the letters. For example I don't try to figure out who exactly is my neighbor, as the lawyer did and I think it is the Gospel of Luke where Jesus tells the story of the Good Samaritan.

And I do have peace! It's part of the fruit of the spirit, thanks be to God!
You need never answer a question if you consult with the Holy Spirit. NEVER. If it can't be seen in the words you chose to use, I don't think it could be in anyones.
 

Dan_473

Senior Member
Mar 11, 2014
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Well Dan, ask yourself who gave the dietary laws. It was the pre-incarnate Christ Himself (see 1 Cor. 10:4). Then ask yourself why He gave them. If you come to the conclusion it was for our own good, then you will know why you should keep them. Got it? View attachment 202156



Hey Marcelo, are you awake? I answered your question about circumcision in post #3042. Go back and read that. Like others have said on here, ask the Spirit of Truth on what to do or not do. View attachment 202157
Please note that I started the first two sentences with
Are you saying...
And the last one talks about
In your view

So, I am not asking the general question
Should Christians follow the dietary laws?

I am asking a particular question of you in particular,
Are you saying that Christians should follow the dietary laws?

I don't doubt that the spirit will give me answers in the scriptures, and has already given me many. Nor do I doubt that I will continue to grow in Grace and knowledge.

But I am asking you, so that I will know what you are saying.

Now regarding whether it was the pre incarnate Christ who gave the law to Moses, or a different person of the trinity is not completely clear to me.

I believe that the law was given by yhwh, which in psalm 110 I believe, is pictured as having the Christ sitting next to him.

So possibly it is different persons of the one God being presented, or possibly it is not something humans can comprehend.
 
Mar 28, 2016
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I think one needs understand the meaning of the words cover & multitude, in how it is used in regards to "love COVERING a "multitude" of sin."
The term cover means forgiven by the blood of Christ! It DOES NOT mean ABSOLVED!
Meaning? At, or during, some point in "eternity?" One shall answer for 'em! Just as one shall answer for the sin/s of that which love doesn't forgive one for.
Which is why, at least in this one's Spiritual walk, and journeyings, in the finding out which, or what sin/s love doesn't cover becomes more profitable!
It is in doing so? One absolves oneself in one's "taking up of one's cross" oneself. As Christ points one in the Father's direction. aka the FIRST RESURRECTION!

Cuz you see? In these days we are not Corporate Israel! Although, many act as if we are! Yanno, "One size fits all!"
Revelation 20

6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

The very fact that this is happening now? Should give one cause to wonder. "How can one be a Priest of God, and Jesus Christ for a thousand years, BEFORE the thousand years?

Which gives ME cause to wonder! How can one be a Priest of Jesus Christ and NOT be a Priest of God also?
Which, should probably involve a further study of the word Immanuel! As it is rendered more in the 3rd person, of God being WITH us, more then God IS Him!
Philippians 2

5 Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:
6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:
7 But made himself of NO reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:

As far as which law or laws, or commandments, or conditions, one feels compelled to do?

Ask Him who sent Christ!
I remember years back studying that portion and came to the conclision cover "protect or defend from harm" over a multitude of sin or variety of sin that surround us and cause no harm because we are covered by his hand , it is like poison is used to represent false doctrines it will cause us no harm. God protecting his sheep.
 

DeighAnn

Banned Serpent Seed Heresy
Jun 11, 2019
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Dan_473

Senior Member
Mar 11, 2014
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"Conditions of a Contract"/ "Law?" between God, and in this case the Nation of Israel? 6 of one, half dozen of another!

If you wished, wanted, desired, or expected, God's blessings, for you, or your crops and livestock, your family, and their children, including the "Corporate Entity" you lived in and among, in this case Deuteronomy's "NATION of Israel?
One should WANT to keep up one's end of the bargain.

What transpired, was that "the Priesthood", at that time, became corrupted! And, it would be very much akin to what "tax collectors" were like during Messiah's "time on earth. In the "demanding" of more portion FOR THEMSELVES, then, the "conditions of the contract" had stated. IOW? Placing an "harder burden" on the people, and LESSOR on themselves. And then, calling THESE DEMANDS, "THE LAW!" "That MUST BE OBEYED!"

In the Holy Priesthood itself? As we can read, this MISREPRESENTATION of God, and "His Conditions" BETWEEN Him, and the "Nation of Israel" BECAME "null and VOID!" In "present day" terms? The "Separation of Church and State?" Grew TOO WIDE! The "POINT?" Had been LOST! The anger, bitterness, and resentment, for "THE LAW", as it had become? Had become in the "people's hearts", as well as the hearts and souls, and spirits of the Priesthood? Just a "going through the motions", while their hearts were "at the golf course", or "at some party", or, at the "lions club meeting", or "chamber of commerce meeting", or mason's/shriner's/moose/elks lodge! Just about ANYWHERE ELSE, EXCEPT God!

Should any of this sound familiar? It's because the "spirit of INSTEAD OF Christ" has been around a long, LONG time! Of course, back in O.T. days? This may have been referred to as the "spirit of INSTEAD OF God!" ;)
What I'm hearing is that the commandments in Deuteronomy are to be followed if you wish physical blessings, like increased crop yield.

But breaking those commandments does not have a spiritual effect.

Is that what you are saying?
 

DeighAnn

Banned Serpent Seed Heresy
Jun 11, 2019
2,436
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Greetings NayborBear,

Good to hear from you! Well, my sharing that scripture now puts me in the hot seat. I pray I never walk that walk of looking down, BUT IF I DO Please help me!

You know when I hear the argument that if you break only one law you are guilt of all! I wonder why, if a man recognizes the Laws as good and right and just would they ever not want to keep them regardless of the terms? I mean, I have heard everyone I know of on here who they slanderously call judiazers say that they are justified by the grace of God through faith in Jesus' work on the cross. But they refuse to hear them! So the only conclusion I can make is that they hold anyone, who by the Holy Spirit has been brought to a place of loving Gods Laws in contempt! This is persecuting men for righteousness sake! Re;

Mat 5:10 KJV Blessed are they which are persecuted for righteousness sake: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.


No matter how many times we hold out an olive branch of peace by sharing our understanding of Grace they smack it down and call us Judaizers. Rejoice at this persecution though.
Because they (the ones calling others judaziers) are the ones who can not, will not let go of the law of Moses making them the very thing they accuse others of, they are the Pharisees. And just like the Pharisees took the law of Mosis and loosened it, they continue, yet in the extreme of loosening it. Just as the questions put forth to entrap came from the Pharisees, so do the questions from them. It is so flipped upside down. Just like calling those who love the law, lawless and those who deem it dead, lawful. It is insane. But we see the blindness and how man can not penetrate it. Gods Will be done
 

DeighAnn

Banned Serpent Seed Heresy
Jun 11, 2019
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I don't follow my imagination of what I think the law says.

That way is lawlessness.

I abide in Christ and He grows the fruit.
You have made it abundantly clear, God is in no way a burden to you, and how you yourself do nothing and give nothing and as such you are entirely a burden to Him. We were created for His pleasure. Who is the master and who is the servant in your relationship with the Lord? He gives you Faith, He gives you salvation, He gives you righteousness, He justifies you, You are sanctified by Him, you abide in Him, He grows the fruit, You rest in Him, do no works, He perfects you...........

How do you show your love? How are you His servant? How do you give Him pleasure? What, with all He does for you, do you do for Him? You think He just wants you to mirror back His love to Him? He doesn't need "souls" to do that, He already has those in heaven day and night saying ......... We are not them. Our purpose is different.
Would you want a kid where you gave and gave and gave and gave and all you ever heard was give me more, I really love you?
 

Dan_473

Senior Member
Mar 11, 2014
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Well if you're lawless then the whole question is moot don't you think?

That's literally what the Holy Spirit was prophesied to help you desire to do. I can't give you the desire to want to do it.
I just wanted to say that if someone says
I'm not a Law-keeper
Especially in the context of a thread about the law of Moses,
It does not follow that the person must then be lawless.

As I understand it, the term
Lawkeeper
Is used as a shorthand way of referring to someone who says that Christians ought to physically perform as much of the law of Moses as they can.

If a person is not a law keeper, but keeps the law of Christ, then they are not lawless.
 

Deade

Called of God
Dec 17, 2017
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Vinita, Oklahoma, USA
yeshuaofisrael.org
Please note that I started the first two sentences with
Are you saying...
And the last one talks about
In your view

So, I am not asking the general question
Should Christians follow the dietary laws?

I am asking a particular question of you in particular,
Are you saying that Christians should follow the dietary laws?

I don't doubt that the spirit will give me answers in the scriptures, and has already given me many. Nor do I doubt that I will continue to grow in Grace and knowledge.

But I am asking you, so that I will know what you are saying.

Now regarding whether it was the pre incarnate Christ who gave the law to Moses, or a different person of the trinity is not completely clear to me.

I believe that the law was given by yhwh, which in psalm 110 I believe, is pictured as having the Christ sitting next to him.

So possibly it is different persons of the one God being presented, or possibly it is not something humans can comprehend.
Hahaha... Methinks you are trying to trip me up with words. I can't speak for other Christians but I can say what God has led me to do.

Speaking of tripping over words, you realize you are calling God a person. I don't view my God that way. Maybe another Jesus out there is a person, I have no idea how to define that. :unsure:
 

Dan_473

Senior Member
Mar 11, 2014
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There is no argument at all;

There is only one way to have fellowship with God or to Love God:

Scripture provides NO OTHER WAY to do so except to know and keep His commandments! Why would anyone want to have it any other way? Any relationship begins with "Knowing" someone!

So, if a man chooses to obtain mercy for his sins through grace by imputed righteousness which we all must do, but then disregards the Son and The Father by ignoring the leading of the Holy Spirit to "know and keep" the Laws. Then what is left of that man? If he says he has fellowship with The Son and The Father;

1Jn 1:6 KJV If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth:
Excellent post!

I think the difference would be what different people mean when they say commandments, especially in the New testament.

I look at what Moses wrote down in the wilderness, and I look at the world around me. I see that there is no way to physically do many of The commandments because there is no Temple or known levitical priesthood.

I look in the New testament, and I don't see any place where it says stop keeping this part of the law but keep the rest. When Jesus talks about the law in The sermon on the Mount, he presents it as a single unit, no part of it passing away until either heaven and Earth pass away or all is accomplished or fulfilled.

What then? I do see something in the New testament that talks about the entire law is fulfilled.

And I also see that the children of God are led by the spirit.

So I expect that one person will be led to follow a particular commandment from the wilderness while another person will not. The person who follows the commandment will not be following it, hopefully, to obtain salvation, but simply as a result of the leading of the spirit.

I would not agree that all of The food commandments that we can physically perform today ought to be done for health reasons. For example I was reading last night about how if the dead body of certain animals touch your eating utensils you have to break them. I like to buy my utensils at the thrift store as part of living simply. There is no way to know what has touched them in the past. But, some bleach or high temperature is enough to sterilize them. I can't see a health benefit to breaking the dishes.
 

Dan_473

Senior Member
Mar 11, 2014
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Hahaha... Methinks you are trying to trip me up with words. I can't speak for other Christians but I can say what God has led me to do.

Speaking of tripping over words, you realize you are calling God a person. I don't view my God that way. Maybe another Jesus out there is a person, I have no idea how to define that. :unsure:
No, I am not trying to trip you up with words at all. I had asked a question about what your views were on something, and your answer related to how I personally could find the holy spirit's views. So I asked again because I am interested in what your views are, what you feel the spirit is telling you.

So, please tell me, what has the Spirit led you to do regarding the dietary laws? And, in your view, is it possible that the spirit would tell someone else something different, possibly not to follow the dietary laws?

Yes, I realize that I called God a person. Traditionally, one talks about the Trinity as one God, three persons. Some scriptures present Jesus as God, some scriptures present the father as God, some scriptures present Jesus as distinct from the father, yet we know that there is just one God. So it's helpful to have some word when talking about their relationship.
 

Yahshua

Senior Member
Sep 22, 2013
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I would be happy to show you that Peter says the same things as Paul says.

I could explain whatever it is you think Peter is saying that contradicts Paul.

I thought I pretty much did. But if you want more just continue to post the scripture that you think encourages the Christian to go back to the law for their justification or righteousness or ongoing sanctification from Peter.
No, I just hope you'd read what's actually written over the error of what you're explaining. Peter doesn't contradict Paul. Peter & Paul actually contradict you, sad to say. All we have to do is go back into Peter's letter and he explains what he meant by the error of lawless.


2 Peter 1:4-7
Through these He has given us His precious and magnificent promises, so that through them you may become partakers of the divine nature, now that you have escaped the corruption in the world caused by evil desires.

5 For this very reason, make every effort to add to your faith virtue; and to virtue, knowledge; and to knowledge, self-control; and to self-control, perseverance; and to perseverance, godliness; and to godliness, brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness, love.



First, no matter which version you read, Peter tells the reader to put forth every effort to be godly. This directly contradicts your teaching of "no human effort" required or allowed. But what is "godliness" vs. "ungodliness"?


2 Peter 2:4-8
For if God did not spare the angels when they sinned, but cast them deep into hell, placing them in chains of darkness to be held for judgment; if He did not spare the ancient world when He brought the flood on its ungodly people, but preserved Noah, a preacher of righteousness, among the eight; if He condemned the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah to destruction, reducing them to ashes as an example of what is coming on the ungodly;
7 and if He rescued Lot, a righteous man distressed by the depraved conduct of the lawless (for that righteous man, living among them day after day, was tormented in his righteous soul by the lawless deeds he saw and heard).



Next, no matter which version you read, Peter shares examples of ungodly people being judged over and over again by Yah. He then defines who the ungodly are. They are the LAWLESS. Peter says ungodly people commit lawless deeds. Elder Peter says the ungodly are not law-keepers. He says lawless conduct = depraved conduct, like the people at Sodom and Gomorrah. Sins are lawless deeds.


2 Peter 2:12-17
These men are like irrational animals
, creatures of instinct, born to be captured and destroyed. They blaspheme in matters they do not understand, and like such creatures, they too will be destroyed. The harm they will suffer is the wages of their wickedness.
They consider it a pleasure to carouse in broad daylight. They are blots and blemishes, reveling in their deception as they feast with you. 14Their eyes are full of adultery; their desire for sin is never satisfied; they seduce the unstable. They are accursed children with hearts trained in greed.

15They have left the straight way and wandered off to follow the way of Balaam son of Beor, who loved the wages of wickedness. 16 But he was rebuked for his transgression by a donkey, otherwise without speech, that spoke with a man’s voice and restrained the prophet’s madness. These men are springs without water and mists driven by a storm. Blackest darkness is reserved for them. 18 With lofty but empty words, they appeal to the sensual passions of the flesh and entice those who are just escaping from others who live in error.



Again, no matter which version you read, Peter ties lawlessness with wickedness. He also compares walking "the straight way" against those who "live in error". Peter says the lawless have left the straight way and live in error of wickedness, and entice those just escaping (i.e. new converts) to also live in error. Peter says these lawless ones blaspheme in matters they don't understand. So far, it would seem Peter is talking against folks who believe what you teach about the law.


2 Peter 3:11-12 & 14
Since everything will be destroyed in this way, what kind of people ought you to be? You ought to conduct yourselves in holiness and godliness as you anticipate and hasten the coming of the day of God, when the heavens will be destroyed by fire and the elements will melt in the heat.
Therefore, dear friends, while you wait for these things, make every effort to be found without spot or blemish in his sight, at peace.



Again, Peter repeats his instruction to put forth every effort to be without spot or blemish (unlike the lawless). Again, this contradicts the teaching of "no human effort" required or allowed. And finally, we have the passage in question.


2 Peter 3:15-18
Bear in mind that our Lord’s patience means salvation, just as our dear brother Paul also wrote you with the wisdom that God gave him. 16 He writes the same way in all his letters, speaking in them of these matters. His letters contain some things that are hard to understand, which ignorant and unstable people distort, as they do the other Scriptures, to their own destruction.
17 Therefore, dear friends, since you have been forewarned, be on your guard so that you may not be carried away by the error of the lawless and fall from your secure position. 18 But grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. To him be glory both now and forever! Amen.



Word for word, no matter the version, Peter, who was an elder of the early church over Paul, is clear in what he means: Ignorant and unstable people distort Paul's words to teach others to live in lawlessness (i.e. "without the law"), and it is an error of wickedness and will lead to destruction, so BE ON YOUR GUARD for those "enticing" people.

This error was occurring in the first century and it's still happening today.