Not By Works

[FollowHisSteps]

There is no light for one who partakes in works salvation. There was only light for one who partakes in works to glorify God.

This is typical of weird theology and approaches to life.
The beauty of Jesus is He works in our hearts to change us, so we work to help others, because
we demonstrate the work He has done in us.

I have found people who do not love, tend to stop and give up.
The light that shines is the work Jesus has done in us, and goes to His praise because He alone
has made it possible, Halleluyah.

Jesus wants to encourage us to show this love.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I think part of the problem here is that we define salvation differently:

You define salvation as the new birth, being born again, having faith in Jesus' death, going to heaven, and forgiveness
- Please feel free to correct me or add to what I say here . . . I dont' want to put words into your mouth . . . (not that you would let me anyway - )

I define salvation as being born into the family of God, As having everything against me, contrary to me and having those things nailed to the cross. I view salvation as having the curse of the law remeoved from me, where it cna no longer touch me, I view salvation as being sealed by the spirit, given eternal life, In all, I view salvation as having the penalty of sin (death) removed)

If you do not have ETErNAL life, and your salvation is not secure your really not saved.

I define salvation as "deliverance from" - I am delivered from eternal death through faith in Jesus' sacrifice and His blood: I am forgiven of my sins and receive eternal life - today I have a relationship with Jesus Christ that will last through all eternity and end in heaven,; and he has promised to walk with me daily and give me the power to live about the control of the flesh, and the Devil. He has "delivered" me from the daily control of sin. He is my Lord and my Saviour! He does good works through me (I am HIS workmanship).




So from the perspective of what I see salvation as I am not afraid to put salvation and works in the same sentence. To take works out of the sentence (to me) is to deny that God cares about the daily battle in the flesh that I face with sin!

Your trying to mix justification and sanctification, The topic of this thread is justification. Ie...,
This thread is about recieving salvation, Please stick to the topic. When you are talkign about recieving salvation, and someone screams works, legalism is the culprit.

Ie. We are NOT TALKING SANCTIFICATION. .

No problem with the thread here - We are saved by faith and not by works! Amen - it is God and not man! But I am not afraid to talk about works and put it in the same sentence as salvation.

There is a HUGE problem when we try to mix justification with sanctification, in a thread where JUSTIFICATION and ONLY justification, is the topic.

 

[Chester]

No, works for the cause of maintaining or gaining salvation do not give glory to Jesus.

They belittle His gift.


He gets no glory for trying to pay for what He has already purchased and given to me freely in His mercy.



Jesus has a perfect righteousness He put on my account by grace through faith.

The value exceeds not only my cost but the cost of the whole world.

I won't pretend I need more than that, and I have faith that it is enough because that is what He taught.


I will not seek to establish my own righteousness and think by works I can be saved or stay saved.

I will submit to His righteousness and accept His gift with gratitude.


also

Who said don't do good works?

I know I didn't, ever.

But if you think they help save us...😅


You may have missed a verse or 300....

Heres a pretty big one.

Ephesians 2:8-9
8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.


(cough cough, man gets no credit

I am not saying good works save us! I am not saying good works maintain or gain salvation!
A thousand times if I must say it! No! No! No!No! No!No! No!No! No!No! No!No! No!No! No!No! No!No! No!No! No!


But please look carefully at my post and your response:

I wrote: "But do not works done by the power of might of Jesus bring glory to him? Isn't his works in our lives one of the greatest way the world sees His glory?"

You responded with: "No, works for the cause of maintaining or gaining salvation do not give glory to Jesus. They belittle His gift."

How did you get that "works done by the power and might of Jesus" are works that "maintain or gain salvation" ? How do "works done by the power and might of Jesus" belittle his gift?
You seem paranoid that any reference to works means that the person is doing this on his own power to get saved! I think (my opinion - ) that such a paranoia leads to a belittling of the possibility and power of God working in a person to mightily bring honor to His name!

 

[OneOfHis]

I am not saying good works save us! I am not saying good works maintain or gain salvation!
A thousand times if I must say it! No! No! No!No! No!No! No!No! No!No! No!No! No!No! No!No! No!No! No!No! No!


But please look carefully at my post and your response:

I wrote: "But do not works done by the power of might of Jesus bring glory to him? Isn't his works in our lives one of the greatest way the world sees His glory?"

You responded with: "No, works for the cause of maintaining or gaining salvation do not give glory to Jesus. They belittle His gift."

How did you get that "works done by the power and might of Jesus" are works that "maintain or gain salvation" ? How do "works done by the power and might of Jesus" belittle his gift?
You seem paranoid that any reference to works means that the person is doing this on his own power to get saved! I think (my opinion - ) that such a paranoia leads to a belittling of the possibility and power of God working in a person to mightily bring honor to His name!

See it doesn't feel like you're being sincere because you said this.

"but you seem to be saying that our salvation is by grace through faith and keep the works out"


In response to me saying "this thread was made to give God glory"


That is a ridiculous claim to make unless you suggested that I am saying "but keep our works out of what is needed for salvation"

....

Which then would make you calling me "paranoid" insincere when you supposedly believe we are saved by grace through faith.



To me you sound like you're trying to bait me with false claims.



God gets the glory for the salvation of His childre , and that is final.

0 works get that glory.


You seem to conflate issues from my perspective.

😕



This is not a"is grace good or are works good?" thread.


We are not saved, or kept saved by works.

 

[VCO]

Hebrews 6:4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Spirit, and have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,
Description of someone saved
1. Once enlightened
2. tasted of the heavenly gift
3. partakers of the Holy Spirit
4. have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come
5. be renewed.

If they shall fall away,
to renew them again unto repentance seeing they crucify to themselves
the Son of God afresh, and put Him to open shame.

God I so love Him, to make sure we put it in the proper CONTEXT put this next verse in.

for the earth which drinketh in the rain that cometh oft upon it,
and bringeth forth herbs meet for them by whom it is dressed,
receiveth blessing from God our lives summed up we are the earth, He gives us rain, we bring for herbs, we love Him, we receive blessings.

God will not be mocked. He didn't say if you throw the gift away, I will give you another. As a matter of fact we read right above, best not do that cause you lose it.

Do we go around judging who really meant it from who didn't really mean it? Have you ever met someone who has "renounced "God completely? I am going to say NO.

God repented of putting us in the flesh.
He also knew we couldn't even follow the law of Moses.
So what did He do?

Made a promise, to those he had given with freewill, 1/3 of who had turned on Him once before, most who would be in the end times, that only he really had to keep.

Backing this position defies all logic and common sense. What would be the point? The gift of eternal life wasn't good enough? He had to promise it. Was that to get people to at least try?

Wow, are YOU REALLY DECEIVED.

WE ARE THE ONES:

WHO HAVE BEEN BORN AGAIN, not just enlightened.

WHO HAVE BEEN TRANSFORMED BY THE HEAVEN GIFT, not just tasted.

WHO HAVE BEEN INDWELT BY THE HOLY SPIRIT, not just partakers or the splash effect of being close to HIM.

WHO HAVE CONSUMED AND FED ON THE WORD OF GOD, not just tasted.

WHO KNOW OUR DESTINY AND OUR INHERITANCE, not just know about the world to come.


Oh my, how totally Deceived you are, ABOUT WHAT IS A TRUE CHRISTIAN.

They are just CHURCH GOERS, with ONLY human ears to hear with;

BUT ABSOLUTELY NO SPIRITUAL EARS to HEAR WITH UNDERSTANDING.


I need to ask you a question now. I hope, and suspect you will know this answer.
HOWEVER TO BE SURE, I REALLY NEED TO ASK:

HOW YOU WERE BORN AGAIN and HOW DO YOU KNOW IT WAS REAL?

I am not asking for verses, I am asking for your personal testimony.

 

[DeighAnn]

Do you believe that if a believer falls and walks away that they can never come back to Jesus?

No I believe in repentance and the infinite value of the Blood of Christ.

 

[Chester]

See it doesn't feel like you're being sincere because you said this.

"but you seem to be saying that our salvation is by grace through faith and keep the works out"


In response to me saying "this thread was made to give God glory"


That is a ridiculous claim to make unless you suggested that I am saying "but keep our works out of what is needed for salvation"

....

Which then would make you calling me "paranoid" insincere when you supposedly believe we are saved by grace through faith.



To me you sound like you're trying to bait me with false claims.



God gets the glory for the salvation of His childre , and that is final.

0 works get that glory.


You seem to conflate issues from my perspective.

😕

?? You are surely not understanding what I am trying to say - and it seems I am not understanding you . . . probably inevitable on a forum like this!

OK - I will just leave the issue go at that without further comment -

Love you, brother,
Chester

 

[OneOfHis]

I am not saying good works save us! I am not saying good works maintain or gain salvation!
A thousand times if I must say it! No! No! No!No! No!No! No!No! No!No! No!No! No!No! No!No! No!No! No!No! No!


But please look carefully at my post and your response:

I wrote: "But do not works done by the power of might of Jesus bring glory to him? Isn't his works in our lives one of the greatest way the world sees His glory?"

You responded with: "No, works for the cause of maintaining or gaining salvation do not give glory to Jesus. They belittle His gift."

How did you get that "works done by the power and might of Jesus" are works that "maintain or gain salvation" ? How do "works done by the power and might of Jesus" belittle his gift?
You seem paranoid that any reference to works means that the person is doing this on his own power to get saved! I think (my opinion - ) that such a paranoia leads to a belittling of the possibility and power of God working in a person to mightily bring honor to His name!

Honestly I am disappointed in your approach...😅


How could you try to claim I am against good works?

Then call me paranoid when I say God gets the credit and glory for our salvation.....

?? You are surely not understanding what I am trying to say - and it seems I am not understanding you . . . probably inevitable on a forum like this!

OK - I will just leave the issue go at that without further comment -

Love you, brother,
Chester

Love you too bro... but what did you mean when you claimed it seems like I'm trying to leave works out?

Maybe that is where the misunderstanding took place...

Actually made me sad...

 

[FollowHisSteps]

17 "Let him who boasts boast in the Lord."
18 For it is not the one who commends himself who is approved, but the one whom the Lord commends.
2 Cor 10

23 we preach Christ crucified: a stumbling block to Jews and foolishness to Gentiles,
24 but to those whom God has called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God and the wisdom of God.
25 For the foolishness of God is wiser than man's wisdom, and the weakness of God is stronger than man's strength.
1 Cor 1

13 you also were included in Christ when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation. Having believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit,
14 who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God's possession--to the praise of his glory.
Eph 1

55 "Where, O death, is your victory? Where, O death, is your sting?"
56 The sting of death is sin, and the power of sin is the law.
57 But thanks be to God! He gives us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.
1 Cor 15

 

[OneOfHis]

I like a lot of what you say above - but this statement makes no sense to me: "the not by works thread is a thread meant to give glory to Jesus" - but you seem to be saying that our salvation is by grace through faith and keep the works out!

But do not works done by the power of might of Jesus bring glory to him? Isn't his works in our lives one of the greatest way the world sees His glory?

the part I made big is why I responded in a way to say God gets the glory for salvation...

not our works


I am far from paranoid


strongly built on solid ground

and i do resent that statement as well bro


and i encourage good works every single day of my life


just not for the cause of salvation

even hated for it by people dont know God or love His ways

 

[DeighAnn]

Wow, are YOU REALLY DECEIVED.

WE ARE THE ONES:

WHO HAVE BEEN BORN AGAIN, not just enlightened.

WHO HAVE BEEN TRANSFORMED BY THE HEAVEN GIFT, not just tasted.

WHO HAVE BEEN INDWELT BY THE HOLY SPIRIT, not just partakers or the splash effect of being close to HIM.

WHO HAVE CONSUMED AND FED ON THE WORD OF GOD, not just tasted.

WHO KNOW OUR DESTINY AND OUR INHERITANCE, not just know about the world to come.


Oh my, how totally Deceived you are, ABOUT WHAT IS A TRUE CHRISTIAN.

They are just CHURCH GOERS, with ONLY human ears to hear with;

BUT ABSOLUTELY NO SPIRITUAL EARS to HEAR WITH UNDERSTANDING.


I need to ask you a question now. I hope, and suspect you will know this answer.
HOWEVER TO BE SURE, I REALLY NEED TO ASK:

HOW YOU WERE BORN AGAIN and HOW DO YOU KNOW IT WAS REAL?

I am not asking for verses, I am asking for your personal testimony.

You tell me all I have is false doctrine, I am totally deceived, Not a true Christian, then ask me for my personal testimony? I am not sure how this approach works with others but I have discerned that would only be met with the same type of ridicule given me so far and as such, I pass.

 

[FollowHisSteps]

Oh my, how totally Deceived you are, ABOUT WHAT IS A TRUE CHRISTIAN.

Some are so used to impact exaggeration, there are no limits to what they can declare.

When Jesus says let your yes be yes and your no be no, this is about simple interactions and
commitments.
Judgements of whether someone knows Jesus's love and cleansing in their hearts, and rubbishes
all their experience and interactions, is such a all encompassing condemnation, it is staggering.

Maybe if one had a sword in ones hand and saw a dead body in front of one, would the impact of the
words come home. Unfortunately when emotions are the only tempering information and seeing
another in totality changes what we say. Where is the love? Where is the gentleness?

Jesus did not break a reed
20 A bruised reed he will not break, and a smoldering wick he will not snuff out, till he leads justice to victory.
Matt 12

Who is our Lord and who is our example?

 

[Smooth]

I like a lot of what you say above - but this statement makes no sense to me: "the not by works thread is a thread meant to give glory to Jesus" - but you seem to be saying that our salvation is by grace through faith and keep the works out!

But do not works done by the power of might of Jesus bring glory to him? Isn't his works in our lives one of the greatest way the world sees His glory?

Yes, if done with a heart that indeed glorifies Jesus and not one’s own self-serving pride.

 

[FollowHisSteps]

Hebrews 6:4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Spirit, and have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,
Description of someone saved
1. Once enlightened
2. tasted of the heavenly gift
3. partakers of the Holy Spirit
4. have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come
5. be renewed.

If they shall fall away,
to renew them again unto repentance seeing they crucify to themselves
the Son of God afresh, and put Him to open shame.

God I so love Him, to make sure we put it in the proper CONTEXT put this next verse in.

for the earth which drinketh in the rain that cometh oft upon it,
and bringeth forth herbs meet for them by whom it is dressed,
receiveth blessing from God our lives summed up we are the earth, He gives us rain, we bring for herbs, we love Him, we receive blessings.

God will not be mocked. He didn't say if you throw the gift away, I will give you another. As a matter of fact we read right above, best not do that cause you lose it.

Do we go around judging who really meant it from who didn't really mean it? Have you ever met someone who has "renounced "God completely? I am going to say NO.

God repented of putting us in the flesh.
He also knew we couldn't even follow the law of Moses.
So what did He do?

Made a promise, to those he had given with freewill, 1/3 of who had turned on Him once before, most who would be in the end times, that only he really had to keep.

Backing this position defies all logic and common sense. What would be the point? The gift of eternal life wasn't good enough? He had to promise it. Was that to get people to at least try?

I admire your inspiration and enthusiasm.
It is though like putting your arm into the fire, and these war hardened souls will give back the same.

I find myself more concerned about how people handle the Holy Spirit talking to their hearts than the
words or interactions. These verses have perplexed believers since they were written, and there is probably
only personal resolution. I have been amazed as I have gained insight into people and the Lords word and
His intent and mans response, it becomes clearer. But there is the problem. A lot of these words are for
the wise and not those torn by distress this way or that in their faith. God bless you

If those who have fallen hurt and wounded in their lives, the path back to Christ can seem unclear.
But it is always encouraging to hear the Lord drawing others to Him through turmoil and difficulty
before they go to meet Him. Praise the Lord we see through a glass darkly, or we would probably more
harsh than we could imagine.

 

[Smooth]

When it comes to salvation. WORKS HAVE NO BEARING

You can not say that yuo do not believe works maintain salvation, then claim WORKS MATTER.

Remember, the context is salvation, If you bring works into the equation, and say they matter, YOU CLAIM works maintain salvation.

Hi brother! Chester was saying works have no bearing on salvation but they matter because they glorify God. I have to agree with him but I am open to correction if indeed I am seeing things incorrectly.

 

[Smooth]

Be careful. When they put salvation and works in the same sentence, they are usually trying to take credit for self not God.

I am definitely careful, my brother. Thanks as always for looking out for me and others.

 

[Smooth]

No, that is not what I am saying. I am saying the fruit of the vine is not shining through, and I thought I would give you a tiny nudge.
Rev 19:7 Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to Him, for the marriage of the Lamb is come and His wife hath made herself ready
And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white, for the fine linen is the righteousness of the saints.
And He saith unto me, Write, Blessed are they which are called unto the marriage supper of the Lamb. And He saith unto me, These are the true sayings of God.

I give all glory to God, as does everyone who understands our salvation is a free, irrevocable gift that we receive for having faith in Jesus. We have no need for any form of nudge.

 

[VCO]

Then what would have been the point of free will?

There is NO GLORY going back to GOD, if HE only made us just Biological Robots. HE Declares the END from the BEGINNING. HE KNOWS EVERY DECISION WE WILL MAKE IN OUR ENTIRE LIVES, HE KNOWS FROM THE FOUNDATION OF THE EARTH. That is what ALL KNOWING MEANS. WE CAN CHOOSE TO GLORIFY GOD BY OUR RIGHTEOUS DECISIONS.

Leviticus 10:3 (NKJV)
3 And Moses said to Aaron, "This is what the LORD spoke, saying: 'By those who come near Me I must be regarded as holy; And before all the people I must be glorified.' " So Aaron held his peace.

Isaiah 60:21 (NASB)
21 "Then all your people will be righteous; They will possess the land forever, The branch of My planting, The work of My hands, That I may be glorified.

Isaiah 49:3 (NKJV)
3 "And He said to me, 'You are My servant, O Israel, In whom I will be glorified.'

Haggai 1:8 (HCSB)
8 Go up into the hills, bring down lumber, and build the house. Then I will be pleased with it and be glorified,” says the LORD.

John 15:8-9 (ESV)
8 By this my Father is glorified, that you bear much fruit and so prove to be my disciples.
9 As the Father has loved me, so have I loved you. Abide in my love.

1 Peter 4:11 (NRSV)
11 Whoever speaks must do so as one speaking the very words of God; whoever serves must do so with the strength that God supplies, so that God may be glorified in all things through Jesus Christ. To him belong the glory and the power forever and ever. Amen.

One of the Main Purposed of GOD, if not the MAJOR PURPOSE of GOD, is HE MUST BE GLORIFIED.
Like I said, there is NO GLORY if HE made us biological robots.

 

[FollowHisSteps]

When it comes to salvation. WORKS HAVE NO BEARING
You can not say that yuo do not believe works maintain salvation, then claim WORKS MATTER.
Remember, the context is salvation, If you bring works into the equation, and say they matter, YOU CLAIM works maintain salvation.

Salvation of those who do not walk with Jesus.
It is like a group of friends who do not talk, do not agree, but are in a room together,
yet they are as antagonistic towards each other as are enemies wanting to kill.

Jesus said something so much more profound.

35 By this all men will know that you are my disciples, if you love one another.
John 13

This is truly profound, if you have ever tried to live in community, you will begin to know
this is no idle aspiration, that truly needs the healing and anointing of God to achieve.

 

[Smooth]

There is no light for one who partakes in works salvation. There was only light for one who partakes in works to glorify God.

This is typical of weird theology and approaches to life.
The beauty of Jesus is He works in our hearts to change us, so we work to help others, because
we demonstrate the work He has done in us.

I have found people who do not love, tend to stop and give up.
The light that shines is the work Jesus has done in us, and goes to His praise because He alone
has made it possible, Halleluyah.

Jesus wants to encourage us to show this love.

Who doesn’t love?