Not By Works

[FollowHisSteps]

I totally agree with you because i see this as foolishness. I have been there, done that, i know where you are headed and where you are coming from because i have also been there.

Have a nice day.

vco is an interesting character. A few exchanges and one is in the ignore bin.
I have never been so judged and condemned, over areas were we agree.
But it makes me suggest that there are levels of coping, and one strategy is to withdraw when things
get too challenging, which is not a bad position to take.

Is sin and evil deadly? It would appear some want to take their chances, and do not believe Jesus can
wash us clean. When you meet families riven by greed, anger, lust, envy, selfish ambition, lying, sexual immorality,
betrayal, drugs, hatred, bitterness, you know the poison of the walking dead you know love conquers everything.

Better be without anything, no possessions, no family, no future, no respect but with love in Jesus is life eternal,
not just as words, but in absolute truth. His peace knows no boundaries or lack of eternal promise.

Repentance is not a burden, it is light of abandoning the ways of the world and passions of the flesh to follow
the way of truth and life in Christ. There is no compromise, because any dilution destroys it all.

When this vision is true at the foot of cross, heaven has touched the heart of man, Praise the Lord, for His love
that knows no bounds or limits. Amen.

 

[FollowHisSteps]

I thought I smelled a large lump of snark in those words

What is snark? It is a word I do not know, but clearly whatever it is it is some kind of insult ......
But it fails to work unless it has a meaning .....

Has one preacher started to use this phrase?

 

[FollowHisSteps]

A well-timed witty comment among friends is good humor. But passive-aggressive comments that mask anger lurking just beneath the surface constitute snark.

Sometimes, snarky comments involve backhanded compliments like, “You look good for someone your age.” Snark also includes cynical comments like, “You would have made more sales if you sounded more like you knew what you were talking about. Just saying.”

And it seems like the world is getting a little snarkier all the time. But that doesn’t mean you have to let those jabs drag you down or stress you out.

 

[FollowHisSteps]

The problem with using the language like snark, is it implies meaning behind asking questions which
may simply not be there.

Sarcasm can mean it is almost impossible to complement someone, because it is taken as an insult.
In the Lord we are called to be plain and simple, let our yes be yes and our no be no.

I simply use language to attempt to understand others, and if I do not like what is being said, explain
what I mean. Jesus our example, was very direct.

Put simply get your heart right and everything else in life will flow to Gods glory.
Now by me saying this some could think I know their hearts have a problem except I actually only know
this truth, and how it changed me, not anyone else or their current state. Those who feel I know them
and are judging them, it is literally their own hearts and consciences that are speaking in the Lord.

Praise God that this is how He reaches us and changed us through His word, like a double edged sword
that divides flesh and bone, Amen.

 

[FollowHisSteps]

Snarkiness of God.

God desires we change, His word encourages, correct, highlights, prunes, hurts, rebukes, corrects,
reproves and most of all shows us the way. Through repentance we have the open door to leave
behind the failure and darkness and walk into the light.

If God is snarky, and being just ok where you are, has never been the way to life.
Some seem to preach this, and end up becoming an enemy of the God they claim to know.

 

[BillG]

Peter denied Jesus out of fear?
I think Peter went to see what was going to happen after Jesus was arrested, because he thought
Jesus might take over Jerusalem, or escape like He had so many times before. But Peter wanted
to observe anonymously, so he could then know what to do next. What he did not expect was he
would be exposed, and possibly have to defend Jesus, when he did not know anymore where he was.
He had got a sword, the time was right, they were all ready to fight and die, yet Jesus said no.

This was the time, Jerusalem was ready to explode, yet Judas had betrayed them, everything was
uncertain, and his friend was facing the enemy. And when the crunch came, "I do not know Him".
Jesus knew, Jesus knew how none of this made sense, but Peter would come round, His friend, that
precious follower, impetuous, yet full of glorious insight. Amen

I do think that Peter denied Jesus out of fear.
I would say he did because Jesus had been arrested.
With regards to taking over Jerusalem I think Judas thought that Jesus would take over Jerusalem as a result of defeating the Romans in warfare as such.

My understanding is that the Zealots at that at the time, of which Judas was one.
Overthrow the Romans and restore Israel.

That was their interpretation of the prophecy of the coming Messiah.

I think Jesus knew Judas was a tare amongst the wheat.

The following is before the celebration of the Passover

Mark 14:6-11
6 But Jesus said, “Let her alone. Why do you trouble her? She has done a good work for Me. 7 For you have the poor with you always, and whenever you wish you may do them good; but Me you do not have always. 8 She has done what she could. She has come beforehand to anoint My body for burial. 9 Assuredly, I say to you, wherever this gospel is preached in the whole world, what this woman has done will also be told as a memorial to her.”

Judas Agrees to Betray Jesus
(Matt. 26:14–16; Luke 22:3–6)
10 Then Judas Iscariot, one of the twelve, went to the chief priests to betray Him to them. 11 And when they heard it, they were glad, and promised to give him money. So he sought how he might conveniently betray Him.

Jesus rebuked Judas then he goes off in a huff.

Then we find interestingly

Luke 22:3
3 Then Satan entered Judas, surnamed Iscariot, who was numbered among the twelve.

Why I find this interesting is because Jesus did not say to Judas (that I can find) what he said to Peter.

Luke 22:31-32

Jesus Predicts Peter’s Denial
(Matt. 26:31–35; Mark 14:27–31; John 13:36–38)
31 And the Lord said, “Simon, Simon! Indeed, Satan has asked for you, that he may sift you as wheat. 32 But I have prayed for you, that your faith should not fail; and when you have returned to Me, strengthen your brethren.”

But going back to the Passover I say that Jesus knew Judas was his enemy a tare yet he washed his feet. I suppose you could say loving him but also not revealing who his enemy was before his enemy revealed himself.

John 6:70
70 Jesus answered them, “Did I not choose you, the twelve, and one of you is a devil?”

But look at what Jesus said to Peter.
"And when you have returned to me"

Jesus knew his heart for him, even his limited love for him.
Yet he restored him.
Peter went from Phileo love to Agape love then was willing to die for him.
Out of love.

John 18:8-9
8 Jesus answered, “I have told you that I am He. Therefore, if you seek Me, let these go their way,” 9 that the saying might be fulfilled which He spoke, “Of those whom You gave Me I have lost none.”

 

[FollowHisSteps]

I do think that Peter denied Jesus out of fear.
I would say he did because Jesus had been arrested.
With regards to taking over Jerusalem I think Judas thought that Jesus would take over Jerusalem as a result of defeating the Romans in warfare as such.

My understanding is that the Zealots at that at the time, of which Judas was one.
Overthrow the Romans and restore Israel.

That was their interpretation of the prophecy of the coming Messiah.

I think Jesus knew Judas was a tare amongst the wheat.

The following is before the celebration of the Passover

Mark 14:6-11
6 But Jesus said, “Let her alone. Why do you trouble her? She has done a good work for Me. 7 For you have the poor with you always, and whenever you wish you may do them good; but Me you do not have always. 8 She has done what she could. She has come beforehand to anoint My body for burial. 9 Assuredly, I say to you, wherever this gospel is preached in the whole world, what this woman has done will also be told as a memorial to her.”

Judas Agrees to Betray Jesus
(Matt. 26:14–16; Luke 22:3–6)
10 Then Judas Iscariot, one of the twelve, went to the chief priests to betray Him to them. 11 And when they heard it, they were glad, and promised to give him money. So he sought how he might conveniently betray Him.

Jesus rebuked Judas then he goes off in a huff.

Then we find interestingly

Luke 22:3
3 Then Satan entered Judas, surnamed Iscariot, who was numbered among the twelve.

Why I find this interesting is because Jesus did not say to Judas (that I can find) what he said to Peter.

Luke 22:31-32

Jesus Predicts Peter’s Denial
(Matt. 26:31–35; Mark 14:27–31; John 13:36–38)
31 And the Lord said, “Simon, Simon! Indeed, Satan has asked for you, that he may sift you as wheat. 32 But I have prayed for you, that your faith should not fail; and when you have returned to Me, strengthen your brethren.”

But going back to the Passover I say that Jesus knew Judas was his enemy a tare yet he washed his feet. I suppose you could say loving him but also not revealing who his enemy was before his enemy revealed himself.

John 6:70
70 Jesus answered them, “Did I not choose you, the twelve, and one of you is a devil?”

But look at what Jesus said to Peter.
"And when you have returned to me"

Jesus knew his heart for him, even his limited love for him.
Yet he restored him.
Peter went from Phileo love to Agape love then was willing to die for him.
Out of love.

John 18:8-9
8 Jesus answered, “I have told you that I am He. Therefore, if you seek Me, let these go their way,” 9 that the saying might be fulfilled which He spoke, “Of those whom You gave Me I have lost none.”

Amen.
I do not know quite about Peters Phileo love to Agape, I just know he loved Jesus and was confused.
It speaks to me so much about us here on cc. We can share the positive reasons why we are drawn to
Jesus and how He has spoken to us, deeper than any person or idiology or concept to where we bow
the knee and declare our God and King. There was a time when I was once on the fence in a kind of way,
but not now.

Meaning in life is defined in love, no more no less. Like a flower, I am closer to leaving than arriving, and
in all I exalt Him above all. I cannot even fight this OSAS, non OSAS because in love it is vapour ware.
When a kid is hurt, you provide support and help them to get balance again.

So many are spiralling into death, because love of Jesus has not touched their hearts. Such a tragedy, when
we are seduced into self pity and not to just be real, and open. Peter denied Jesus 3 times, and Jesus lovingly
reminded Him, even in love, even in dedication, at the one point in history, when the King took the most
difficult step, Peter walked away. But in this place, God still loved, and lifted Peter up. What a King and lover
of our Souls, thank you Jesus.

 

[dcontroversal]

POST 104355 openly calls JESUS a LIAR........WHEN JESUS states that he NEVER KNEW THEM....and then a deceiver states that JESUS knows EVERYONE.......

LIE ALERT.............

 

[dcontroversal]

"Listening" in on this conversation confirms what I have seen before:

When one adopts the doctrine of OSAS, if forces one to become a judge of all who do not believe today - and say that they never did believe or could have believed.


What I mean practically is this: Suppose I see someone who at one point claimed to be a Christian and was even living what appeared as a good Christian life - but now they have fallen away and no longer even claim to believe and are now doing evil works.

If I believe in OSAS - I am forced to conclude this person could never have been a true believer

If I do not believe in OSAS - I simply leave the person's former spiritual condition to God - what matters is that they are not believing today and I care about that and wan to help them find repentance, change, and God's grace.

And this is not just a "straw-man" - I have a brother-in-law of whom this is the case . . . - exact scenario above . . . ! For myself, I refuse to judge his former position and say he could not have been born again.

Circular reasoning here folks.....we can rightfully and biblically judge dogma and JOHN was clear....if they go out from us, they were NEVER OF US.....there are ABSOLUTES in the word.........end of story and could care less if you or anyone else receives it

 

[FollowHisSteps]

Why do you ignore the scriptures?
No root, He never knew them, they were not of us or they surely would have continued, we are not of them.....
Not to mention the dozens you have been shown which proves there is eternal security for Gods children...

This is an interpretation, a wrong interpretation just like the others.
Jesus knows everyone.

POST 104355 openly calls JESUS a LIAR........WHEN JESUS states that he NEVER KNEW THEM....and then a deceiver states that JESUS knows EVERYONE.......
LIE ALERT.............

Lol. Is this really the level of biblical interpretation here?
I never knew you means you and me were not friends or in agreement.

Jesus knowing the spiritual state of everyone, is the statement Jesus knows everyone.

If this is insightful spiritual insight, the blind truly think they can see .......

 

[BillG]

Amen.
I do not know quite about Peters Phileo love to Agape, I just know he loved Jesus and was confused.
It speaks to me so much about us here on cc. We can share the positive reasons why we are drawn to
Jesus and how He has spoken to us, deeper than any person or idiology or concept to where we bow
the knee and declare our God and King. There was a time when I was once on the fence in a kind of way,
but not now.

Meaning in life is defined in love, no more no less. Like a flower, I am closer to leaving than arriving, and
in all I exalt Him above all. I cannot even fight this OSAS, non OSAS because in love it is vapour ware.
When a kid is hurt, you provide support and help them to get balance again.

So many are spiralling into death, because love of Jesus has not touched their hearts. Such a tragedy, when
we are seduced into self pity and not to just be real, and open. Peter denied Jesus 3 times, and Jesus lovingly
reminded Him, even in love, even in dedication, at the one point in history, when the King took the most
difficult step, Peter walked away. But in this place, God still loved, and lifted Peter up. What a King and lover
of our Souls, thank you Jesus.

With regards to the restoration of Peter.

Jesus asks him "Do you love me? Three times.

The first two times the word for love is Agape (unconditional love)
Peter responds with Phileo love (brotherly love)

The third time Jesus uses Phileo.
Peter gets upset.
But then Jesus accepted that and tells him to go feed his sheep.

So I look at it this way.

Peter only had a botherly love for Jesus.
That is why he denied him, because he was frightened and did not want to die a painful death on the cross which was coming.

He saw the kangaroo court and it's judges.

But even given that when Jesus accepted his brotherly love and said "Feed my sheep"
I think Peter felt so loved and accepted and released he was willing to go to Agape love.

He died a death on the cross. But Peter being Peter refused to be crucified upwards.

For me the point is given today the message is that we as people can walk in Agape love. Unconditional love, full acceptance of the sheep he has given us.

At this moment in time we will not be killed for it but we need kill our flesh that does not want to Agape. Put ourselves aside and love unconditionally.

That's the best way I can explain it.

I would like to say that Peter is the example but what we know about this hot headed man he is not our example.

But what he is the example of a man despite his faults and failings is a man who says "I will be like Jesus, I want to be like Jesus"

And we know that even when tending the sheep he had to be corrected.

"So many are spiralling into death, because love of Jesus has not touched their hearts. Such a tragedy, when
we are seduced into self pity and not to just be real, and open."

Herein lies the problem.

Why do they not know that?
Am I doing something wrong or you doing something wrong?
Afterall we as belivers are we not to walk in this love?

Are we willing to walk with those who do not know the love of Jesus because of life experiences.

Jesus said "God loves us as much as he loves him"

Unless they know this then life is going to be very hard.

If we don't know this love or accept this love can we walk in it with our bothers and sisters.

I would say yes we can even if we do not get it.
We know the truth of this, even if we have not been set free.

That's Agape love.

 

[FollowHisSteps]

Circular reasoning here folks.....we can rightfully and biblically judge dogma and JOHN was clear....if they go out from us, they were NEVER OF US.....there are ABSOLUTES in the word.........end of story and could care less if you or anyone else receives it

Got to laugh. Someone cares deeply what others think about their contributions or else they would
not be continually denying they care and then mentioning the points time and again.

Must be hard to be trapped is ones own tread mill, just like a little hamster ....

 

[FollowHisSteps]

With regards to the restoration of Peter.

Jesus asks him "Do you love me? Three times.

The first two times the word for love is Agape (unconditional love)
Peter responds with Phileo love (brotherly love)

The third time Jesus uses Phileo.
Peter gets upset.
But then Jesus accepted that and tells him to go feed his sheep.

So I look at it this way.

Peter only had a botherly love for Jesus.
That is why he denied him, because he was frightened and did not want to die a painful death on the cross which was coming.

He saw the kangaroo court and it's judges.

But even given that when Jesus accepted his brotherly love and said "Feed my sheep"
I think Peter felt so loved and accepted and released he was willing to go to Agape love.

He died a death on the cross. But Peter being Peter refused to be crucified upwards.

For me the point is given today the message is that we as people can walk in Agape love. Unconditional love, full acceptance of the sheep he has given us.

At this moment in time we will not be killed for it but we need kill our flesh that does not want to Agape. Put ourselves aside and love unconditionally.

That's the best way I can explain it.

I would like to say that Peter is the example but what we know about this hot headed man he is not our example.

But what he is the example of a man despite his faults and failings is a man who says "I will be like Jesus, I want to be like Jesus"

And we know that even when tending the sheep he had to be corrected.

"So many are spiralling into death, because love of Jesus has not touched their hearts. Such a tragedy, when
we are seduced into self pity and not to just be real, and open."

Herein lies the problem.

Why do they not know that?
Am I doing something wrong or you doing something wrong?
Afterall we as belivers are we not to walk in this love?

Are we willing to walk with those who do not know the love of Jesus because of life experiences.

Jesus said "God loves us as much as he loves him"

Unless they know this then life is going to be very hard.

If we don't know this love or accept this love can we walk in it with our bothers and sisters.

I would say yes we can even if we do not get it.
We know the truth of this, even if we have not been set free.

That's Agape love.

Agape love is a difficult term.
At the time of Jesus it would refer to love for one's children or love for a spouse.
It would not be appropriate for Peter to respond that he loved Jesus like a spouse or
a child, but Jesus could talk about Peter as a child.

We now see Agape as sacrificial love given from the heart, seeing others as Gods children
worthy of dying for, to help bring them into the Kingdom.

I can see how the use of Agape changed after Jesus used it in a new context.
His death on the cross was not apparent as to its significance until after the event.

I agree Jesus was comparing His love to Peters, but it would have been confusing what Jesus
meant. Peter was not yet fully aware of dying for Jesus, and the sacrifice they were being called
to make, and how Agape was going to represent the depth of this love.

God bless you

 

[BillG]

Agape love is a difficult term.
At the time of Jesus it would refer to love for one's children or love for a spouse.
It would not be appropriate for Peter to respond that he loved Jesus like a spouse or
a child, but Jesus could talk about Peter as a child.

We now see Agape as sacrificial love given from the heart, seeing others as Gods children
worthy of dying for, to help bring them into the Kingdom.

I can see how the use of Agape changed after Jesus used it in a new context.
His death on the cross was not apparent as to its significance until after the event.

I agree Jesus was comparing His love to Peters, but it would have been confusing what Jesus
meant. Peter was not yet fully aware of dying for Jesus, and the sacrifice they were being called
to make, and how Agape was going to represent the depth of this love.

God bless you

Are we in agreement here?

God bless you as well.

 

[dcontroversal]

Got to laugh. Someone cares deeply what others think about their contributions or else they would
not be continually denying they care and then mentioning the points time and again.

Must be hard to be trapped is ones own tread mill, just like a little hamster ....

Not hardly PETER and your psycho babble and opinion = zero

 

[dcontroversal]

Are we in agreement here?

God bless you as well.

I am surprised you agreed with the following blather which is false

At the time of Jesus it would refer to love for one's children or love for a spouse.
It would not be appropriate for Peter to respond that he loved Jesus like a spouse or
a child,

 

[BillG]

I am surprised you agreed with the following blather which is false

At the time of Jesus it would refer to love for one's children or love for a spouse.
It would not be appropriate for Peter to respond that he loved Jesus like a spouse or
a child,

I didn't agree.
I asked are we are we in agreement here.

 

[dcontroversal]

I didn't agree.
I asked are we are we in agreement here.

AMEN....the quote I sent you is false and not scriptural......the word means unconditionally.....NOT as a SPOUSE or CHILD.......it is that kind of vanilla twist that cheapens the word of God and devalues the text.....I flat despise it

 

[BillG]

AMEN....the quote I sent you is false and not scriptural......the word means unconditionally.....NOT as a SPOUSE or CHILD.......it is that kind of vanilla twist that cheapens the word of God and devalues the text.....I flat despise it

Then why were you surprised that you thought I agreed with it?

 

[dcontroversal]

Then why were you surprised that you thought I agreed with it?

Because this was your response to his quote....and at face value it seems to indicate an agreement with what he said migo

Are we in agreement here?

God bless you as well.