Not By Works
- Thread starter dcontroversal
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
?
Mental acknowledgment is not faith... but some who have it will claim it is... this is who those verses are addressing
those who "were not of us" and "we are not of them"
though we all can claim to be in Him it does not mean we are
and Those who say Lord lord, who He never knew THINK they are in Him
God's inspired written word proves those who are outwardly believers are not always born again. -> Not of us.
1 John 2:19 [/B][/SIZE]
19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.
Hebrews 10:39
39 But we are not of them who draw back unto perdition; but of them that believe to the saving of the soul.
Wheat and tares
Mental acknowledgment is not faith... but some who have it will claim it is... this is who those verses are addressing
those who "were not of us" and "we are not of them"
though we all can claim to be in Him it does not mean we are
and Those who say Lord lord, who He never knew THINK they are in Him
God's inspired written word proves those who are outwardly believers are not always born again. -> Not of us.
1 John 2:19 [/B][/SIZE]
19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.
Hebrews 10:39
39 But we are not of them who draw back unto perdition; but of them that believe to the saving of the soul.
Wheat and tares
-
5
- Show all
Just because every tongue shall confess tgat Jesus is Lord dosn't mean everyone shall be excepted.
Matthew 7:21-25 New International Version (NIV)
True and False Disciples
21 “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22 Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?’ 23 Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’
The Wise and Foolish Builders
24 “Therefore everyone who hears these words of mine and puts them into practice is like a wise man who built his house on the rock. 25 The rain came down, the streams rose, and the winds blew and beat against that house; yet it did not fall, because it had its foundation on the rock."
Matthew 7:21-25 New International Version (NIV)
True and False Disciples
21 “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22 Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?’ 23 Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’
The Wise and Foolish Builders
24 “Therefore everyone who hears these words of mine and puts them into practice is like a wise man who built his house on the rock. 25 The rain came down, the streams rose, and the winds blew and beat against that house; yet it did not fall, because it had its foundation on the rock."
-
3
- Show all
Eh?
I happen to know for a fact by the Holy Spirit, much prayer and study that many who think they are part of the body of Christ are not, and I know for a fact this parable is teaching on them as well as those who are truly in Him.
Wait, you think everyone in the church (body of Christ) are born again believers?
(this is the sort of silly question you keep asking me😧)
Please no more of those games....
Let's be honest🙂
1 John 2:19
19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.
Hebrews 10:39
39 But we are not of them who draw back unto perdition; but of them that believe to the saving of the soul.
They would no doubt have continued with us.... hmmmmm....
Interesting.....🙄
I happen to know for a fact by the Holy Spirit, much prayer and study that many who think they are part of the body of Christ are not, and I know for a fact this parable is teaching on them as well as those who are truly in Him.
Wait, you think everyone in the church (body of Christ) are born again believers?
(this is the sort of silly question you keep asking me😧)
Please no more of those games....
Let's be honest🙂
1 John 2:19
19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.
Hebrews 10:39
39 But we are not of them who draw back unto perdition; but of them that believe to the saving of the soul.
They would no doubt have continued with us.... hmmmmm....
Interesting.....🙄
-
2
- Show all
"Listening" in on this conversation confirms what I have seen before:
When one adopts the doctrine of OSAS, if forces one to become a judge of all who do not believe today - and say that they never did believe or could have believed.
What I mean practically is this: Suppose I see someone who at one point claimed to be a Christian and was even living what appeared as a good Christian life - but now they have fallen away and no longer even claim to believe and are now doing evil works.
If I believe in OSAS - I am forced to conclude this person could never have been a true believer
If I do not believe in OSAS - I simply leave the person's former spiritual condition to God - what matters is that they are not believing today and I care about that and wan to help them find repentance, change, and God's grace.
And this is not just a "straw-man" - I have a brother-in-law of whom this is the case . . . - exact scenario above . . . ! For myself, I refuse to judge his former position and say he could not have been born again.
When one adopts the doctrine of OSAS, if forces one to become a judge of all who do not believe today - and say that they never did believe or could have believed.
What I mean practically is this: Suppose I see someone who at one point claimed to be a Christian and was even living what appeared as a good Christian life - but now they have fallen away and no longer even claim to believe and are now doing evil works.
If I believe in OSAS - I am forced to conclude this person could never have been a true believer
If I do not believe in OSAS - I simply leave the person's former spiritual condition to God - what matters is that they are not believing today and I care about that and wan to help them find repentance, change, and God's grace.
And this is not just a "straw-man" - I have a brother-in-law of whom this is the case . . . - exact scenario above . . . ! For myself, I refuse to judge his former position and say he could not have been born again.
-
2
-
1
- Show all
The problem with parables and allegories, is they point at truth but do not define it.
As we walk through the subject they address, we then see how it fits.
It is obvious if the experience does not fit the parable we are putting something in the
wrong way. The point is not that the parable defines proof rather it shows us we are thinking
and going the way of the Lord.
So saying people actually spiritual know Jesus yet then walk away, cannot be unbelievers but
rather believers who come to see what the deeper reality is and then are not willing to pay
the price. The whole point of the gospel is to call those who have the desire to make it
through to the end, not just snow flakes. And it matters not if people start and drop away
because the elect hear and stay the course.
And I do not know who they are, because simply the end is where we see the result.
And if you listen carefully, almost all christian groups acknowledge this reality.
But you have to listen carefully.
Just by declaring most of the christian church are not believers, the truth is defined.
But then they know who is where, and want to tell everyone exactly who they are,
especially if one is witnessing to the King of Kings, Amen.
As we walk through the subject they address, we then see how it fits.
It is obvious if the experience does not fit the parable we are putting something in the
wrong way. The point is not that the parable defines proof rather it shows us we are thinking
and going the way of the Lord.
So saying people actually spiritual know Jesus yet then walk away, cannot be unbelievers but
rather believers who come to see what the deeper reality is and then are not willing to pay
the price. The whole point of the gospel is to call those who have the desire to make it
through to the end, not just snow flakes. And it matters not if people start and drop away
because the elect hear and stay the course.
And I do not know who they are, because simply the end is where we see the result.
And if you listen carefully, almost all christian groups acknowledge this reality.
But you have to listen carefully.
Just by declaring most of the christian church are not believers, the truth is defined.
But then they know who is where, and want to tell everyone exactly who they are,
especially if one is witnessing to the King of Kings, Amen.
-
1
-
1
- Show all
Eh, I refuse to believe anything against what scripture teaches.
You know me well despite the new usernamemcgee and I know of your brother already.
Feel free to pm me and ask my old nousername but we have been over this many times before.
Usually in good cheer.
Lol but at this rate I feel like adopting your attitude....
"Those who believe in a weak God who can't keep His children safe and revolving door salvation blah blah blah"
C'mon now bro, you're better than that.
-
1
- Show all
You have to be BORN AGAIN to KNOW THAT. You will only see it as FOOLISHNESS. He is talking about Spiritual Knowledge, NOT head knowledge. It is a reference to the Born Again experience, where His Spirit and our human spirit are in the Same Spiritual Body of which HE is the Head. That is a MUCH, MUCH Deeper Relationship than you have ever KNOWN. YES in HIS HUMAN MIND he knows everybody, BUT IN HIS SPIRITUAL MIND, HE intimately and deeply knows ONLY those who have Genuinely Mourned Over Their Utter Sinfulness, and RECEIVED HIM by Surrendering to HIS Control Over Their LIVES Completely, as LORD which means MASTER.
This then is ABSOLUTELY LITERALLY TRUE, even though You will think it is FOOLISHNESS, you NEED to allow the Holy Spirit to BIRTH your Human Spirit into Eternal Life. And It cannot be done without deep, deep mourning over your utter Sinfulness.
The blue print is where you are today, compared to the rest of us that you CANNOT UNDERSTAND where we are coming from:
1 Corinthians 2:6-16 (NIV)
6 We do, however, speak a message of wisdom among the mature, but not the wisdom of this age or of the rulers of this age, who are coming to nothing.
7 No, we speak of God's secret wisdom, a wisdom that has been hidden and that God destined for our glory before time began.
8 None of the rulers of this age understood it, for if they had, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.
9 However, as it is written: "No eye has seen, no ear has heard, no mind has conceived what God has prepared for those who love him"--
10 but God has revealed it to us by his Spirit. The Spirit searches all things, even the deep things of God.
11 For who among men knows the thoughts of a man except the man's spirit within him? In the same way no one knows the thoughts of God except the Spirit of God.
12 We have not received the spirit of the world but the Spirit who is from God, that we may understand what God has freely given us.
13 This is what we speak, not in words taught us by human wisdom but in words taught by the Spirit, expressing spiritual truths in spiritual words.
14 The man without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned.
15 The spiritual man makes judgments about all things, but he himself is not subject to any man's judgment:
16 "For who has known the mind of the Lord that he may instruct him?" But we have the mind of Christ.
I just popped in to see what you were up to, and chose to respond to this post. You are now going back on IGNORE once more, because I do not think you will ever respond to this invite. I think you will CONTINUE to think it is all FOOLISHNESS.
The fruitless branches are just Church Goers, while the rest of us have that DEEP, Intimate, Spiritual Relationship with JESUS CHRIST.
-
2
-
1
- Show all
also... for the record... i believe it could be a few reasons one can walk away
like the prodigal son... still a son who returns ultimately... even after thought to be "dead"
like peter who denied Jesus 3 times out of fear
never saved what so ever
but never "saved" and "unsaved"
because i firmly believe that is against what scripture teaches
It is ironic, those who claim to condemn judgementalism and oppose legalists, have to identify the
legalists, expose and condemn them, which makes them legalists themselves.
Jesus was very careful to condemn no one, rather He said His words spoken, whether accepted or
rejected will be everyones judge on the last day.
If we are following Jesus and not judging but pointing out the consequences of sin, plain open
obvious sin, we are not these judgemental legalists, but loving open bringers of light to a dark world.
Jesus was even clearer. Tares and wheat will grow together, and it does not matter. In fact the idea
we can separate them damages the true work of God and its enemy. So if I ask at what cost do we follow
Jesus, which Jesus himself declares, I am actually one of the lost. It is like a self destructing hand grenade
that fails from the very beginning. Contradict the Lord, one is not following Him. God bless you
legalists, expose and condemn them, which makes them legalists themselves.
Jesus was very careful to condemn no one, rather He said His words spoken, whether accepted or
rejected will be everyones judge on the last day.
If we are following Jesus and not judging but pointing out the consequences of sin, plain open
obvious sin, we are not these judgemental legalists, but loving open bringers of light to a dark world.
Jesus was even clearer. Tares and wheat will grow together, and it does not matter. In fact the idea
we can separate them damages the true work of God and its enemy. So if I ask at what cost do we follow
Jesus, which Jesus himself declares, I am actually one of the lost. It is like a self destructing hand grenade
that fails from the very beginning. Contradict the Lord, one is not following Him. God bless you
-
1
- Show all
Peter denied Jesus out of fear?
I think Peter went to see what was going to happen after Jesus was arrested, because he thought
Jesus might take over Jerusalem, or escape like He had so many times before. But Peter wanted
to observe anonymously, so he could then know what to do next. What he did not expect was he
would be exposed, and possibly have to defend Jesus, when he did not know anymore where he was.
He had got a sword, the time was right, they were all ready to fight and die, yet Jesus said no.
This was the time, Jerusalem was ready to explode, yet Judas had betrayed them, everything was
uncertain, and his friend was facing the enemy. And when the crunch came, "I do not know Him".
Jesus knew, Jesus knew how none of this made sense, but Peter would come round, His friend, that
precious follower, impetuous, yet full of glorious insight. Amen
I think Peter went to see what was going to happen after Jesus was arrested, because he thought
Jesus might take over Jerusalem, or escape like He had so many times before. But Peter wanted
to observe anonymously, so he could then know what to do next. What he did not expect was he
would be exposed, and possibly have to defend Jesus, when he did not know anymore where he was.
He had got a sword, the time was right, they were all ready to fight and die, yet Jesus said no.
This was the time, Jerusalem was ready to explode, yet Judas had betrayed them, everything was
uncertain, and his friend was facing the enemy. And when the crunch came, "I do not know Him".
Jesus knew, Jesus knew how none of this made sense, but Peter would come round, His friend, that
precious follower, impetuous, yet full of glorious insight. Amen
I have witnessed to people who were saved, yet decided I was not and then spent a long time sharing
the gospel to me. I have always wondered at those who have accepted a set of beliefs, seen the Lord move
and then miss Gods work right in front of them.
Maybe it is so formulaic to meet open loving people who walk in His Spirit is just too much.
Jesus simply spoke to peoples hearts and waited for the response and the fruit that came with the love
that broke forth. My heart is encouraged, if we praise His name and walk in His ways, we may not see quite
straight or see things as clear as we should, but He has saved and pulled us through. Just see how Paul,
Peter, Barnabus, all had their ups and downs. Praise God He is sovereign and uses it all to His glory, Amen.
the gospel to me. I have always wondered at those who have accepted a set of beliefs, seen the Lord move
and then miss Gods work right in front of them.
Maybe it is so formulaic to meet open loving people who walk in His Spirit is just too much.
Jesus simply spoke to peoples hearts and waited for the response and the fruit that came with the love
that broke forth. My heart is encouraged, if we praise His name and walk in His ways, we may not see quite
straight or see things as clear as we should, but He has saved and pulled us through. Just see how Paul,
Peter, Barnabus, all had their ups and downs. Praise God He is sovereign and uses it all to His glory, Amen.
-
1
-
1
- Show all
The gospel says let God be true but every man a liar.....
If Jesus says we will in no wise be cast out I believe Him....
If Gods word clearly says those who go out from us were not of us and we are not of them who draw back.... I believe God over man...
Not ashamed to admit it either...
Lol
It was me trying my best to parrot the attitude I percieved in your first post. (sometimes text is a hard way to sense attitude... I thought I smelled a large lump of snark in those words because the osas claim was false)
We are kept by the power of God. If He saved us from a just punishment, and we end up recieving it anyways..... sorry but that would mean He failed.
If Jesus says we will in no wise be cast out I believe Him....
If Gods word clearly says those who go out from us were not of us and we are not of them who draw back.... I believe God over man...
Not ashamed to admit it either...
I wish you would . . . ! 
What in the world are you trying to say here? Who has a weak God and believes in revolving door salvation?
What in the world are you trying to say here? Who has a weak God and believes in revolving door salvation?
It was me trying my best to parrot the attitude I percieved in your first post. (sometimes text is a hard way to sense attitude... I thought I smelled a large lump of snark in those words because the osas claim was false)
We are kept by the power of God. If He saved us from a just punishment, and we end up recieving it anyways..... sorry but that would mean He failed.
-
1
- Show all