Why I now believe that salvation can be lost.

[Jackson123]

Hi there, so you too is from SEA, am also a Filipino but here in the Philippines.. The context of John 15 is not about salvation, it's about fruit bearing. The word abide, abode simply means dwell. In this sense, not all that dwells can be be said to be a part. This means a lice in my hair/head cannot be said to be a part of my body. In essense v6. is referring to those who are not really a part and therefore they are not bringing fruit, fruitless, hence they are cast forth. The one that abides are of course the saved and bears fruit. No lost salvation for the saved but for the unsaved are worthy of cutting off since to begin with they are not a part of the branch.

God bless

Hi Fredo, seem to me you believe the branch that not bear fruit are non Christian, and the branch that bear the fruit is Christian.

Do you think any posibility the fruit bearer stop bear the fruit after bear for some time?

 

[Karraster]

“Blessed is the man who trusts in the LORD And whose trust is the LORD. For he will be like a tree planted by the water, That extends its roots by a stream And will not fear when the heat comes; But its leaves will be green, And it will not be anxious in a year of drought Nor cease to yield fruit.”

“So every good tree bears good fruit, but the bad tree bears bad fruit. "A good tree cannot produce bad fruit, nor can a bad tree produce good fruit. "Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire.”

Seems that one is a fruit bearer, one is not.
Know Jesus, know fruit.
No Jesus, no fruit.

as far as I know, everyone agrees "without Jesus we are nothing" . The debate is what it means to know Him. Some say to know Him, we obey His commandments, this is what I believe. I can't speak to what someone is thinking who disagrees with that, because John 14:15, “If you love me, obey my commandments” is foundational.

 

[Jackson123]

Hi again Jackson,

I think Galatians 5 focuses on the fruit not the root. It is important to know that the root receives it's life. It is where the tree/plants absorbs vital nutrients to grow and when it grows and sturdy, it blossoms and bear fruit.

Yep the root is part of the tree and Jesus say I am the tree you are the branch

 

[Jackson123]

I know not every word fire in the Bible mean hell, but some Are

Matt 7

19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.


I believe fire in this verse mean hell

 

[Margo74]

Amen sister...
That`s because you are building on the right foundation , the ROCK of Christ , not the sinking sand...
I was on the foundation of sinking sand , I lived in fear , until God showed me through His patience that I am His daughter , and He upholds me with His mighty powerful hand , and He now is leading me through these thorns & thistles in this world as He leads me home...

God bless you sister...
Your joy in our LORD shines through my computer screen , and that my friend is the power of God...xox...

I don't freak out over sinning either .. I choose to sin when I do but I do genuinely repent for sinning .. when I say I choose, I mean that, yes, I do choose in that sin does not just happen and we are unaware of it .. one sin I still am trying to overcome is my verbal reaction to sudden frustration and anger .. I have 3 sleep disorders and do not get quality sleep so am always very tired and I still do many things but when they go wrong, I get frustrated or angry and verbally respond with profanity .. I do it before I can catch myself so in that sense it is not a choice at that moment but it is still a choice to sin as I know such is sinful and I am still working at overcoming it .. anyway, long story short, when I sin in this way or in any other way, I really am sorry and I do genuinely repent, not because I am afraid of losing my salvation but because I do not wish to lose my salvation .. it is a gift I truly value and wish to keep for eternity .. I repent because I know that I can lose my salvation as sin brings death but repentance restores life eternal .. I know that if I sin and do not repent, I shall lose my salvation .. I repent as I do not wish to lose my salvation but, mainly, because I am sorry to offend God with sinfulness that I have not yet overcome but do believe I shall overcome in time with God's help and, yes, with the strengthening that genuine repentance gives in helping us better resist future sinfulness ..

 

[Chester]

I don't freak out over sinning either .. I choose to sin when I do but I do genuinely repent for sinning .. when I say I choose, I mean that, yes, I do choose in that sin does not just happen and we are unaware of it .. one sin I still am trying to overcome is my verbal reaction to sudden frustration and anger .. I have 3 sleep disorders and do not get quality sleep so am always very tired and I still do many things but when they go wrong, I get frustrated or angry and verbally respond with profanity .. I do it before I can catch myself so in that sense it is not a choice at that moment but it is still a choice to sin as I know such is sinful and I am still working at overcoming it .. anyway, long story short, when I sin in this way or in any other way, I really am sorry and I do genuinely repent, not because I am afraid of losing my salvation but because I do not wish to lose my salvation .. it is a gift I truly value and wish to keep for eternity .. I repent because I know that I can lose my salvation as sin brings death but repentance restores life eternal .. I know that if I sin and do not repent, I shall lose my salvation .. I repent as I do not wish to lose my salvation but, mainly, because I am sorry to offend God with sinfulness that I have not yet overcome but do believe I shall overcome in time with God's help and, yes, with the strengthening that genuine repentance gives in helping us better resist future sinfulness ..

I am one who does not believe in OSAS, but do not live in fear of losing my salvation. My salvation is secure in Christ as I live of life of faith in his Son.

 

[UnderGrace]

It seems to me from a simply earthly perspective - any gift is very returnable - just give it back to the person who gave it -- but just because you gave it back does not mean they did not give it as a gift!

How do you force someone to truly take it back, in an earthly sense of course.

 

[UnderGrace]

they would be in the lake of fire for eternity .

That is pure speculation my friend!!

 

[UnderGrace]

I am one who does not believe in OSAS, but do not live in fear of losing my salvation. My salvation is secure in Christ as I live of life of faith in his Son.

Chester you are pretty funny, you believe what you deny you believe. Excellent I luv it!!

 

[dcontroversal]

So "chosen" means saved according to you? So why was Judas chosen? John 13:18 - I do not speak concerning all of you. I know whom I have chosen; BUT that the Scripture may be fulfilled, ‘He who eats bread with Me has lifted up his heel against Me.’

Judas was an unbelieving, unclean devil who betrayed Jesus. (John 6:64-71; 13:10-11) Does that sound like saved to you?

Of course...to a salvation loser.....

 

[dcontroversal]

I was wondering if your zeal stems from youth.

Zeal without knowledge and or indoctrinated into a false religion!!

 

[dcontroversal]

Not at all, yet one of your main purposes here is to destroy OSAS which doesn't surprise me since you teach salvation by faith + WORKS. Those who live in fear and bondage to IN-security because they are trusting in their performance to save them are usually quick to attack those who have assurance of salvation through faith IN CHRIST ALONE.

She will find out soon enough......sounds just like Fran...same drivel and devaluation of Jesus, his sacrifice and the word of God....

 

[Chester]

How do you force someone to truly take it back, in an earthly sense of course.

Just take it and leave it on their front porch!

 

[dcontroversal]

This shows a total misunderstanding.

Not only of Salvation but of Christianity in general.

At least she consistently skews, embellishes and twists the word.....

 

[Chester]

That is pure speculation my friend!!

Confused??? Where did you get that quote from? I probably wrote it somewhere, but your post takes me back to #1900 and it is not there?

This quote: "Chester said: they would be in the lake of fire for eternity ."

 

[dcontroversal]

I never knew you.

If once saved always saved were indeed true, that is a statement that could never be made. Or "saved" is not being taught correctly.

The man came to the wedding without a garment. He thought he was supposed to be there. Someone must have not explained what "saved" really was, he thought..but

The virgins didn't have enough oil in their lamps.

many are called few chosen.

otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.

The ignorance of this post is astounding...try this on....if LOSING SALVATION WAS TRUE THIS STATEMENT COULD NEVER BE MADE....they, like the workers for and salvation losers, claim Jesus as Lord and boast of their works...open your eyes before it is too late!!

 

[dcontroversal]

Never said “only” by works. There are many though who teach salvation by faith + works.

Which is equally heretical...

 

[Guojing]

Just take it and leave it on their front porch!

The problem with this thinking is that, all unsaved were also given a free gift from Adam at our birth, which is his sinful nature.

No one can return it to Adam by leaving it on his porch, without accepting another free gift from Jesus. Romans 5:12-19

 

[Chester]

Chester you are pretty funny, you believe what you deny you believe. Excellent I luv it!!

UG - you are the one who is funny! A person does not need to believe in OSAS to believe and know that they are secure in Christ and that they have eternal life. As I have said before on this forum, if I were to believe in OSAS, I would need to give up my assurance of salvation, because I would have to keep proving that I really was saved by doing enough good works.

The fact of the matter is, that though I am adamantly against OSAS, some in my circles accuse me of promoting OSAS because I am adamant that works do not save us nor do they keep us saved. People also confuse my view of forgiveness with OSAS, but it is clearly different from OSAS.

I believe the blood of Christ ongoingly moment by moment cleanses us from any sin we might commit. OSAS says all sins past, present, and future were forgiven when we were born again!

 

[Guojing]

how often does one need to be told, the gift of salvation is just that .. God's gift to ALL .. but not ALL accept it and not ALL who do accept it choose to keep it .. some who accept it misuse and abuse it and eventually lose it .. of the latter, some search to find it aka REPENT and retrieve it while others never search for it and have lost it forever aka have lost eternal salvation and have chosen eternal damnation .. no gift is eternally secure unless God and each person chooses to make it so and God does choose to make it so but not all who receive it choose to make it so .. only those whose names remain in the book of life are eternally saved but God does blot some names out of the book of life .. why? .. coz those persons chose to leave Him and go their own sinful way and never turn back aka REPENT ..

The problem is, Adam's free gift to all of us when we were unsaved, his sinful nature, that caused us to be rejected by God, cannot be lost thru our own actions.

Can an unsaved, without turning to Jesus, "abuse" Adam's free gift perhaps by doing a lot of good works, until he eventually lose that sinful nature?

If Christians believe that he cannot, he has to turn to Jesus, what makes us think that Jesus's free gift is weaker than Adam's?

Romans 5:12-19