Why I now believe that salvation can be lost.

[Sipsey]

Well done!

It’s a miracle that I could add that much in edit!

 

[Chester]

nice that someone agrees with me .. any who do not do God's Will and do not repent for such are not going to have eternal life in heaven and why so many think they will boggles my mind .. there will be NO unrepentant sinners in heaven, only repentant ones ..

Not sure how you can say you agree with me then add words to what I said - I said we are not saved by "faith alone" simply because this is not a Biblical expression! Saying we are not saved by "faith alone" is quite different from saying we are saved by doing God's will and repenting. My view

Surely we are saved by faith alone.

But that faith will

Ephesians 2:8-10
8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, 9 not of works, lest anyone should boast. 10 For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them.

That faith will manifest in us the good works in us prepared for us before we were saved by faith.

Our good works do not save us neither will our bad works unsave us (ok not sure if unsave us is a word but I'll go with it).

The point is we will endeavour to walk in those works and when we don't, we fess up to God, agree we got it wrong and ask for help, thank him we are forgiven.

But then if that faith works it is not alone . . . ??

We are saved by faith alone apart from works when we come to the Lord and are saved, that is what "faith alone" refers to, it is refering to the point of salvation.

I make some sense out of your idea here - but I think there is no need at all to differentiate how we are saved at the point of salvation or during our ongoing walk with God.

 

[UnderGrace]

Not sure how you can say you agree with me then add words to what I said - I said we are not saved by "faith alone" simply because this is not a Biblical expression! Saying we are not saved by "faith alone" is quite different from saying we are saved by doing God's will and repenting. My view



But then if that faith works it is not alone . . . ??



I make some sense out of your idea here - but I think there is no need at all to differentiate how we are saved at the point of salvation or during our ongoing walk with God.

Well Mr. Chester I think it is very important to differentiate how "one enters in" and how "one lives after" one has entered in. It alleviates a lot of confusion in the scripture.

"Faith alone" was the rallying cry of the Reformation, an important concept because the RC church had added a pile of works actually in the place of faith.

But I agree it does not explain the path of salvation in and of itself.

 

[FollowHisSteps]

One has to ask the question.

If some are belivers and they refuse to repent then we need to consider whether they are belivers.

We cannot consider that until we come alongside.
Now if we address the situation with them, using Romans 5-6 and they reject it and say something like "I can sin all I want and still be saved"

Then shake the dust off our feet.

Yet if they hate what they do then let's walk with them.
I'm fed up with people who say "Well just stop it"
When people seek help to tell them that will have the affect of being condemned.
After all if they could just stop it then they would not be seeking help.

If there is an affect there will always be cause.

Are we willing to be used by Jesus to to reveal the affect of just to add to the cause.
When people are willing to be used by Jesus to be used for those who genuinely want release then let's go for it.

If not shake the dust off our feet and walk away.

We can deal with people as unbelievers fine, it is just not accepting them as part of the
brethren. People make their choices, it is not something we have to engage with unless
opportunity arises.

Interestingly on forums, it means sharing perspectives and expecting abuse, but simply
ignoring it. This is not just a place one to one, it is a public forum where we represent
our position, and it is important to represent it fairly as the Lord leads.

When believers go into other peoples space, and they reject the gospel, we can withdraw,
because it is not a public arena. God bless you

 

[Jackson123]

You obviously do.

One extreme to the other.

Kill people every day????????????????
Come on man get real.
When do genuine believers do that?
I'm surprised you haven't mentioned rape or adultery every day.

Now tell me where I said it was ok.

What do you mean by extreme

Let me ask you question brother

Do you believe sin is sin?

You Killing is sin and talking to friend when you work by hour is sin

So you believe, killing and talking to friend when you work by hour is not make you lose your salvation. Am I correct?

 

[FollowHisSteps]

If I correctly understand your analogy

A dog is a sinner

New creation is sinless

When creator make the dog into new creation, impossible for them to be back to a dog

When Jesus make a sinner into sinless, it is impossible for the sinless back to a sinner.

Adam and Eve was sinless and they make themselves a sinner

So it is possible for creation to change the self from sinless into sinner.

I wonder how anyone can say God cannot do this or that, or saints cannot rebel and fall.
How many stories are their of sinners who become servants of God and then fall under judgement?

The whole story of the prodigal son is the son chooses to leave and chooses to come back.
There is no promise of being safe except before the left and after they returned.

So insecure are some, to know you are loved is not enough, you need to imprisoned and
shackled so you cannot leave. But this is absurd as nothing in heaven has been created this
way. It is not part of Gods nature as demonstrated by the cross. God bless you

 

[Jackson123]

When we are born again we receive His Holy Spirit and their is no sin in Him.

So when we are born again we receive Holy Spirit and we not able to sin anymore? Or the Holy Spirit not sin but we still able doing sin?

 

[Sipsey]

So when we are born again we receive Holy Spirit and we not able to sin anymore? Or the Holy Spirit not sin but we still able doing sin?

Why did Jesus go to the cross?

You seem to be saying there was no need for His sacrifice. You seem to wrongly think you will go to hell for your sins, wrong.

 

[dcontroversal]

You obviously do.

One extreme to the other.

Kill people every day????????????????
Come on man get real.
When do genuine believers do that?
I'm surprised you haven't mentioned rape or adultery every day.

Now tell me where I said it was ok.

They always accuse like they did Paul.....tells me that we are right on track!!

 

[Margo74]

Extremes as I said.

Is it ok to steal time from your employer.
Is it ok to see a poor person in the church who can't put food on the table, yet you have spare money and don't buy food for them?

in Christ Himself there is no sin and never was and never shall be .. we are to strive to live in Christ and the Father and Holy Spirit and they will live in us .. BUT no unrepentant sinner can live in God and God will not live in any unrepentant sinner .. the focus is repentance .. only those who have attained righteousness will live in and with God for all eternity and on our way to attaining final righteousness we still succumb to sin and those who are sincerely sorry will ALWAYS repent aka turn back to God aka change from doing their will to once again doing God's Holy Will .. God loves all sinners but hates all sins, so He will help sinners overcome sin but He will not tolerate nor condone nor save unrepentant sinners as such are serving Satan only, not God ..

 

[UnderGrace]

So when we are born again we receive Holy Spirit and we not able to sin anymore? Or the Holy Spirit not sin but we still able doing sin?

Jackson, Holy Spirit within is does not sin, but yes we can still sin.

 

[Jackson123]

Why did Jesus go to the cross?

You seem to be saying there was no need for His sacrifice. You seem to wrongly think you will go to hell for your sins, wrong.

Did I say no need to His sacrifice? When did I say that.

Seem to me you believe that after accepting Jesus you welcome to kill and rob without worry to lose your salvation, am I correct?

 

[Jackson123]

You are saved from the “effects” of sin, which is death. No one in Scripture, except Jesus, was sinless. If you think that “you” or anyone can be “perfectly sinless,” then you need to go back and read a little more, about what you are saved from, and for.

David and Moses were both murderers. Look at all the sinners God saved, by grace, not because they were sinless.

Yep David and Moses was murder, I believe they repent

 

[Jackson123]

Extremes as I said.

Is it ok to steal time from your employer.
Is it ok to see a poor person in the church who can't put food on the table, yet you have spare money and don't buy food for them?

So to say ok to steal time your employer is extreme

It mean you believe to steal time is not ok

to steal time is sin,
To kill is sin

So you believe to kill is equal to steal time and are sin but not make you lose your salvation, am I correct?

 

[Margo74]

You are saved from the “effects” of sin, which is death. No one in Scripture, except Jesus, was sinless. If you think that “you” or anyone can be “perfectly sinless,” then you need to go back and read a little more, about what you are saved from, and for.

David and Moses were both murderers. Look at all the sinners God saved, by grace, not because they were sinless.

murder is a sin and sin ends in death BUT David and Moses REPENTED and that is what saved them .. they "returned" to God and "changed" from doing their Will back to doing God's Will .. we all sin and only repentance can restore the life from death sin brings .. no repentance no forgiveness and no forgiveness no salvation aka eternity in lake of fire with Satan and his demons, the unbelievers, and the unrepenting sinner believers

 

[Jackson123]

Jackson, Holy Spirit within is does not sin, but yes we can still sin.

I agree, and I believe if we sin, Holy Spirit in us will remind us not to and repent, and if we ignore again and again, there will be a time Holy Spirit leave us and we lose our salvation

 

[preston39]

So when we are born again we receive Holy Spirit and we not able to sin anymore? Or the Holy Spirit not sin but we still able doing sin?

We are capable of and will occasional sin after being born again.
That is why G-d does not limit us in the number of times we can receive forgiveness;
That is why the Lord's daily prayer contains....the forgiveness section;
That is why the Bible says ...no one is perfect....no not one.
etc.

 

[Jackson123]

We are capable of and will occasional sin after being born again.
That is why G-d does not limit us in the number of times we can receive forgiveness;
That is why the Lord's daily prayer contains....the forgiveness section;
That is why the Bible says ...no one is perfect....no not one.
etc.

Yep, as long as we ask forgiveness and repent, we are ok.

 

[UnderGrace]

I agree, and I believe if we sin, Holy Spirit in us will remind us not to and repent, and if we ignore again and again, there will be a time Holy Spirit leave us and we lose our salvation

Holy Spirit does not leave us.
Repenting over and over again does not keep your salvation secure ... Jesus keeps our salvation secure, because of His work not ours.

 

[Sipsey]

Yep, as long as we ask forgiveness and repent, we are ok.

Why would God forgive you simply because you ask Him?