Why I now believe that salvation can be lost.

[notuptome]

We do not base sound doctrine on butterflies; we base it on the Word of God. You can misinterpret it if you want to, but you will not be able to use this as an excuse before God. I tell you this because I love you.

Gods word tells us that God uses nature to demonstrate what He alone has declared to be true. I tell you that the new creature in Christ cannot revert to the old creature before Christ. Romans 1:19-20

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[UnderGrace]

That's what I just told you.

No you wrote "by faith"

by and through >>>>> two different words

 

[OneOfHis]

We are in complete agreement except for the above statement. Context reveals that these are born again believers:

Hebrews
10:23 Let us hold fast the profession of [our] faith without wavering; (for he [is] faithful that promised
10:24 And let us consider one another to provoke unto love and to good works:
10:25 Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some [is]; but exhorting [one another]: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching.

39 But we are not of them who draw back unto perdition; but of them that believe to the saving of the soul.

Jesus died to make salvation freely available to all, not to prop up the idea that after you get saved you can do your own thing and still get to Heaven. Just read the Bible. It is lucid and clear. Do an honest study of Hebrews 10 and John 15. Truth is neither convoluted nor cryptic.

Please apply this honest study to your own efforts.

I am not one who believes that lacking in understanding of Gods promises disqualifies you from being born again.

I see you and chester as brothers in Christ. Just not understanding that being born again makes it so you are a new creature.


Sons of God aren't defined by desires of the flesh.

"grace is not license to sin"
"if you cant lose salvation does that mean you can sin all you want?"
"so long as you continue to believe you remain saved"



statements like these completely ignore our new God given nature.


we do not WANT sin

our "own thing" is what God put in us
understanding we are sinners... we need Him and desire to be like him



the level at which we perform does not change the fact He will in no wise cast us out


and if you think you could just stop believing... you must have not experienced His works in you



it is impossible to KNOW you HAVE eternal life if you end up in hell after



if i give you a shirt as a free gift... a gift which is "eternal"... you now HAVE that shirt
it is yours

then i come back 7 years later
rip it off your back
and set it on fire

...

did I not steal it?



i pray for you who understand Jesus is the way.. and not ourselves

but still could "walk away"

it worries me since tares can appear as wheat before men

but i know if God has started in you
He will continue in you


you will experience this
and your faith will not be a faith subject to change

you will truly be kept by the power of God... not the will of man

 

[Jackson123]

We are not in the Garden, and that is why the assurance of salvation is true, because we have a NEW ADAM

New Adam is Jesus. He is God. And He say,

Whosoever believe in Him Will be save
John 3:16 King James Version (KJV)
16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

If one No longer believe in Him, not save anymore.

 

[Nat2019]

Again, you are arguing that we make grace a license to sin.

Paul dealt with this same issue, people who were having a problem with Grace, those people were slandering Paul saying that he taught evil (sin) so that good would come... that is distorted reasoning.

Does the grace of YOUR God teach you to say "no" to ungodliness or does the Grace of YOUR God, you follow "Cover your sins"?.

Titus 2:11-14 New International Version (NIV)
11 For the grace of God has appeared that offers salvation to all people. 12 It teaches us to say “No” to ungodliness and worldly passions, and to live self-controlled,upright and godly livesin this present age,13 while we wait for the blessed hope—the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior, Jesus Christ,14 who gave himself for us to redeem us from all wickedness and to purify for himself a people that are his very own, eager to do what is good.

 

[FollowHisSteps]

No where have I written nasty statements towards God about his grace. Nor would I write them about him..

I agree. There is a chain of thought they use. It goes like this.

Jesus => faith => salvation
Passive faith, resting, Jesus does everything

Jesus => faith(works, heart change, repentance, transformation etc) => salvation -
Active faith, Jesus calls us to action

The fundamental failure if you take the passive faith route, is all active faith people are evil,
in unbelief, because by following active faith it denies the need for passive faith and is seen
as self justification.

What should destroy passive faith stance is these simple verses.
These are calls to action and movement, not being passive and empty without direction.

24 "Therefore everyone who hears these words of mine and puts them into practice is like a wise man who built his house on the rock.
25 The rain came down, the streams rose, and the winds blew and beat against that house; yet it did not fall, because it had its foundation on the rock.
Matt 7

8 But since we belong to the day, let us be self-controlled, putting on faith and love as a breastplate, and the hope of salvation as a helmet.
9 For God did not appoint us to suffer wrath but to receive salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ.
10 He died for us so that, whether we are awake or asleep, we may live together with him.
1 Thess 5

21 Surely you heard of him and were taught in him in accordance with the truth that is in Jesus.
22 You were taught, with regard to your former way of life, to put off your old self, which is being corrupted by its deceitful desires;
23 to be made new in the attitude of your minds;
24 and to put on the new self, created to be like God in true righteousness and holiness.
25 Therefore each of you must put off falsehood and speak truthfully to his neighbor, for we are all members of one body.
Eph 4

 

[Nat2019]

39 But we are not of them who draw back unto perdition; but of them that believe to the saving of the soul.


Please apply this honest study to your own efforts.

I am not one who believes that lacking in understanding of Gods promises disqualifies you from being born again.

I see you and chester as brothers in Christ. Just not understanding that being born again makes it so you are a new creature.


Sons of God aren't defined by desires of the flesh.

"grace is not license to sin"
"if you cant lose salvation does that mean you can sin all you want?"
"so long as you continue to believe you remain saved"



statements like these completely ignore our new God given nature.


we do not WANT sin

our "own thing" is what God put in us
understanding we are sinners... we need Him and desire to be like him



the level at which we perform does not change the fact He will in no wise cast us out


and if you think you could just stop believing... you must have not experienced His works in you



it is impossible to KNOW you HAVE eternal life if you end up in hell after



if i give you a shirt as a free gift... a gift which is "eternal"... you now HAVE that shirt
it is yours

then i come back 7 years later
rip it off your back
and set it on fire

...

did I not steal it?



i pray for you who understand Jesus is the way.. and not ourselves

but still could "walk away"

it worries me since tares can appear as wheat before men

but i know if God has started in you
He will continue in you


you will experience this
and your faith will not be a faith subject to change

you will truly be kept by the power of God... not the will of man

This is just a bunch of personal opinions

 

[UnderGrace]

New Adam is Jesus. He is God. And He say,

Whosoever believe in Him Will be save
John 3:16 King James Version (KJV)
16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

If one No longer believe in Him, not save anymore.

Then that is not the belief that saves, it is the wrong belief... because belief IN Him for the gift of salvation saves and it not a temporary or conditional salvation.

 

[Sipsey]

“All this is from God, who reconciled us to himself through Christ and gave us the ministry of reconciliation.”

If one does not “know” they are indeed reconciled, they cannot effectively affect the reconciliation of anyone else. Why did God choose a small nation and place them among a group of pagans? Why was Jonah sent to Nineveh?

Wake up folks, the time is near when your words of hope will have no effect. We were created “for” good works, by God. Jesus said, “You can do nothing without me.” Apparently many think they can. Get Jesus and get busy.

 

[UnderGrace]

Does the grace of YOUR God teach you to say "no" to ungodliness or does the Grace of YOUR God, you follow "Cover your sins"?.

Titus 2:11-14 New International Version (NIV)
11 For the grace of God has appeared that offers salvation to all people. 12 It teaches us to say “No” to ungodliness and worldly passions, and to live self-controlled,upright and godly livesin this present age,13 while we wait for the blessed hope—the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior, Jesus Christ,14 who gave himself for us to redeem us from all wickedness and to purify for himself a people that are his very own, eager to do what is good.

Again you confuse salvation with discipleship.

Salvation is a one time event, born from above, one spiritual birth that is NOT conditional or temporary.

 

[Nat2019]

Then that is not the belief that saves, it is the wrong belief... because belief IN Him for the gift of salvation saves and it not a temporary or conditional salvation.

Do you need to continue believing or do you believe once when you say the sinners repentance prayer?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Where in this passage does it say a Christian who continues willfully sinning will receive a reward.

1 Corinthians 3:12-15
Now if anyone builds on the foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, straw— each one's work will become manifest, for the Day will disclose it, because it will be revealed by fire, and the fire will test what sort of work each one has done. If the work that anyone has built on the foundation survives, he will receive a reward. If anyone's work is burned up, he will suffer loss, though he himself will be saved, but only as through fire.

Where does it say here if a Christian willfully sins he will receive punishment-

Hebrews 10:26-27
26 If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth,no sacrifice for sins is left, 27 but only a fearful expectation of judgment and of raging fire that will consume the enemies of God.

John said a child of God can not continue in sin, Why do you dismiss Johns words?

1 John 3 And you know that He was manifested to take away our sins, and in Him there is no sin. 6 Whoever abides in Him does not sin. Whoever sins has neither seen Him nor known Him.
7 Little children, let no one deceive you. He who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous. 8 He who sins is of the devil, for the devil has sinned from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that He might destroy the works of the devil. 9 Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God.

 

[Nat2019]

Again you confuse salvation with discipleship.

Salvation is a one time event, born from above, one spiritual birth that is NOT conditional or temporary.

It's not about salvation its about the Grace of God.

 

[mailmandan]

Then that is not the belief that saves, it is the wrong belief... because belief IN Him for the gift of salvation saves and it not a temporary or conditional salvation.

Amen! Authentic faith in Christ that saves continues and is not some shallow, temporary belief that has no root, produces no fruit and withers away.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Sorry I haven't found the work "imputed" anywhere in the bible. If God was totally controlling us then we would never sin again.

You do not understand at all. No it would not make us sinless. It is Christ’s blood covering us, so God the father can not see our sin.. Its called redemption. Its called the righteousness of CHrist being put in us

 

[eternally-gratefull]

"Alot of you people are exacly like this women from OSAS. You look down on others with disgust and I read your comments"

I would say that this statement encapsulates what you have basically arguing all along, that those that are secure in Jesus use this security to sin>>>> you slander us and state we use grace as a license to sin

They say we look down on them, when they look down on us.

Its a straw-man, when they start attacking with these nonsensical ideas. It just shows their true spirit.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

His faith is counted for righteousness. Its talking about FAITH. Our FAITH being counted as righteousness.

HIS FAITH is counted for rightiousness

Our faith is not in question.

 

[FollowHisSteps]

"Alot of you people are exacly like this women from OSAS. You look down on others with disgust and I read your comments"

I would say that this statement encapsulates what you have basically arguing all along, that those that are secure in Jesus use this security to sin>>>> you slander us and state we use grace as a license to sin

This is an interesting question. When someone says they no longer need to repent of the sin they
commit or feel sorrow for the hurt caused or the debt made, is this not have a license to sin?

It is in rebellion against repentance and the will of God. Gods will is not to support sinful behaviour
and to bring judgement against those who refuse to repent.

9 They were seared by the intense heat and they cursed the name of God, who had control over these plagues, but they refused to repent and glorify him.
Rev 16

The Lord is clear, those who refuse to repent of their sinful behaviour and stop being sinful,
they will face judgement. Wilfil sin denounces faith, and faith is lost when a sinful heart refuses
to get right with God.

10 For, "Whoever would love life and see good days must keep his tongue from evil and his lips from deceitful speech.
11 He must turn from evil and do good; he must seek peace and pursue it.
1 Peter 3

15 When you spread out your hands in prayer, I will hide my eyes from you; even if you offer many prayers, I will not listen. Your hands are full of blood;
16 wash and make yourselves clean. Take your evil deeds out of my sight! Stop doing wrong,
17 learn to do right! Seek justice, encourage the oppressed. Defend the cause of the fatherless, plead the case of the widow.
18 "Come now, let us reason together," says the LORD. "Though your sins are like scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they are red as crimson, they shall be like wool.
19 If you are willing and obedient, you will eat the best from the land;
Isaiah 1

 

[eternally-gratefull]

We Earn our salvation through a Real "faith". That produces Good works. .

Yep

Thats why SALVATION can’t be lost. Because it is not that it MIGHT produce works, IT DOES!!

So when you come to that saving faith, we will rejoice that you have joined us.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Well, we do not earn our salvation because that puts God in our debt, God is not indebted to us for anything.

4Now the wages of the worker are not credited as a gift, but as an obligation.

We are indebted to God. Thats why apart from Grace we are dead/