Faith is a work.

[fredoheaven]

Don't forget, Abraham, Moses and the rest were saints, and were specially mentioned, but don't forget the rest who would be too numerous to name. They will all be there, not because of what they did, but because of their faith.

Yap Abraham is an example of his faith counted as righteous and not because of his faithfulness. His faithfulness is only the result of his faith. Abraham believed God and it was imputed to him God's righteousness.

Romans 4:3 “For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.”

 

[Guojing]

Abel’s offering did not save him. It’s a matter of his faith. His faith obtained witness that he was righteous. Abel was already righteous that he expressed his faith through his offering.

“By faith Abel offered unto God a more excellent sacrifice than Cain, by which he obtained witness that he was righteous, God testifying of his gifts: and by it he being dead yet speaketh.”

As I was saying to garee, he showed his faith by offering the sacrifice that God commanded him to. He showed his faith by doing the correct work. Cain refused to do so even when God gave him a second chance to do so and even told him specifically what was required for him to do.

Genesis 4:6-7 literally states that. The NLT shows the meaning of the KJV clearly

7 You will be accepted if you do what is right. But if you refuse to do what is right, then watch out! Sin is crouching at the door, eager to control you. But you must subdue it and be its master.”

I do understand it may be a heresy to those who subscribe to covenant theology, to accept that there were times where works are needed to show faith.

Once you realise this, however, James 2 becomes so much easier to understand.

 

[Guojing]

Yap Abraham is an example of his faith counted as righteous and not because of his faithfulness. His faithfulness is only the result of his faith. Abraham believed God and it was imputed to him God's righteousness.

Romans 4:3 “For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.”

What do you think Abraham believed God in? Was it that Jesus has died for his sins and rose again for his justification? What saith the scripture?

 

[Guojing]

Yet you didn't explain...

You already concluded that I misapplied scripture so even if I tried, you will still reject, so what's the point?

 

[tourist]

I don't know the Bible as...this book. The Bible consists of 66 books and is referred to as the Bible.

It is also known as the Good Book. It is the Word of God.

 

[Beckworth]

This was posted along time ago.

IT IS THE WORK OF GOD that we believe in the one he sent.

Faith is not our work, it is Gods.

Baptism is your work. So it is not of the faith that Jesus spoke of in John 6.

Nice try though.

Jesus asked the Pharisees if John’s baptism was from men or from God. They would not answer because if they said from men, then the people would be angry because Johnwas a prophet from God. And if they said from God, then he would say, then why haven’t you obeyed it.

So I ask you, IS JESUS’s baptism from men or from God? What man thought up baptism? Did it originate from man? Was it a commandment of man? I believe I can prove that it was from God. Matthew 28:18&19. JESUS told his disciples to go into all the world and preach the gospel...baptizing them... How can baptism be my work when it originated with and comes from God. That’s like saying “FAITH is your work because it’s something that YOU do to be saved. Faith is more of a work that YOU do than baptism because I don’t even do the baptizing. I am yielding to the command of Jesus and the Holy Spirit in Matthew 28 and Acts 10.

The doctrine of Faith only is (James 2:24) one of Satan’s greatest and most successful deceptions. What better way to get people to believe a lie than to tell them they don’t have to do anything. “You don’t have to do anything and you are alright no matter how much you sin!” It’s a do nothing religion and you can understand why it’s so popular with people. But it is a one of Satan’s tricks. Jesus said broad is the way that leads to destruction and MANY there be that go therein. Don’t be deceived. Read the Bible. Let it speak to you without prejudice. Paul said don’t be deceived by the philosophies of men.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Jesus asked the Pharisees if John’s baptism was from men or from God. They would not answer because if they said from men, then the people would be angry because Johnwas a prophet from God. And if they said from God, then he would say, then why haven’t you obeyed it.

So I ask you, IS JESUS’s baptism from men or from God? What man thought up baptism? Did it originate from man? Was it a commandment of man? I believe I can prove that it was from God. Matthew 28:18&19. JESUS told his disciples to go into all the world and preach the gospel...baptizing them... How can baptism be my work when it originated with and comes from God. That’s like saying “FAITH is your work because it’s something that YOU do to be saved. Faith is more of a work that YOU do than baptism because I don’t even do the baptizing. I am yielding to the command of Jesus and the Holy Spirit in Matthew 28 and Acts 10.

The doctrine of Faith only is (James 2:24) one of Satan’s greatest and most successful deceptions. What better way to get people to believe a lie than to tell them they don’t have to do anything. “You don’t have to do anything and you are alright no matter how much you sin!” It’s a do nothing religion and you can understand why it’s so popular with people. But it is a one of Satan’s tricks. Jesus said broad is the way that leads to destruction and MANY there be that go therein. Don’t be deceived. Read the Bible. Let it speak to you without prejudice. Paul said don’t be deceived by the philosophies of men.

When the people asked Jesus what work they could perform

Jesus reply was it is the work of god we believe

You want to give god your work as payment for sin and trust god will accept it. Feel free

Eternity is to long for me to rely on my own work

 

[Beckworth]

When I say phase out, I mean it’s no longer necessary for salvation or anything else.

As I said acts is a transitional book

Who said Acts was a transitional book and when did they say that? Is this from men or God. I can’t accept that fact just because you say it. Book, Chapter, and Verse please. That sounds like YOUR interpretation. I find it interesting that you include James in that category also because people who believe in a faith only doctrine have trouble explaining away Acts 2:38 and James 3:24. They also try to discredit Mark 16:16. I am amazed at the lengths men will go to “explain away” the plain language of the Bible when it doesn’t fit their doctrine. Emphasis on “their” doctrine because this is from men, not God or the Bible.

 

[Beckworth]

When the people asked Jesus what work they could perform

Jesus reply was it is the work of god we believe

You want to give god your work as payment for sin and trust god will accept it. Feel free

Eternity is to long for me to rely on my

You did not answer the argument. My point is that Baptism is just as much a work of God as Faith. Are you saying that baptism is not a work of God? Are you denying that Jesus commanded it in the great commission in Matthew 28? Are you saying that it originated with man? If not, then how can you say it is MY work? It is no more My work than Faith is YOUR work.

There is a very simple solution to all of this. Just believe what the Bible says. Here are the facts: faith saves, yes. I don’t deny that. But Faith by itself does not. James 2:24. Baptism also saves. 1 Peter 3:21. Baptism now saves us Mark 16:16 Belief plus baptism equals salvation. Acts 2:38 baptism is for the remission of sins. Acts 22:16 baptism washes away sin. Why is it so hard to believe what Jesus said in Mark 16:16– that it takes BOTH faith AND baptism to be saved ? Satan does not want you to believe this.

Remember that Jesus said that Satan was the father of lies. He was a liar in the beginning God very plainly said that Adam and Eve were not to eat the fruit from the tree of knowledge or else they would die. Yet Satan comes along and plainly contradicts what God said. He said “you will not die.” God said”you will die”. Satan said”you will Not die” And we wonder why anyone would not believe What God said. Why would they choose to believe a lie?

Fast forward to 2019. God plainly says in his Holy Book the Bible, inspired by the Holy Ghost, God breathed scriptures, that we are NOT SAVED BY FAITH ONLY (James 2:24). Yet Satan comes along and through John Calvin says “you ARE saved by faith only” and many, many people are choosing to believe man (Satan) over God. It’s a lie, folks. Don’t be deceived like Adam and Eve. God has been very plain on these matters. Believe God, not man.

 

[Beckworth]

Except for the thief on the cross.

The thief on the cross was not subject to water baptism because he lived and died under the law of Moses which did not require baptism. While Jesus was here on earth he could save people anyway he chose. But when he died on the cross his New Will (Testament) came into force. Read Hebrews 9:15-17. And that will and testament of our Lord and Savior left a plan for all of us living now to follow in order to be saved. No one can appeal to the thief on the cross as an Example for us for salvation. He lived under a different law.

 

[Beckworth]

Acts 15:7 - And when there had been much dispute, Peter rose up and said to them: “Men and brethren, you know that a good while ago God chose among us, that by my mouth the Gentiles should hear the word of the gospel and believe. So God, who knows the heart, acknowledged them by giving them the Holy Spirit, just as He did to us, 9 and made no distinction between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith. *Not faith and water baptism.

Read the rest of the story. Verse 47&48. Then Peter answered, “Can any one forbid WATER that these should not be baptized? ...then he COMMANDED them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Sounds like baptism was necessary to me. This scripture is in complete harmony with the rest of the Bible teaching on faith and baptism.
Matt. 28:18&19. 1 Peter3:21
Mark 16:16. James 2:24
Acts 2:38
Acts 22:16

 

[Beckworth]

Faith is not a work. Thank God! If faith were a work, there would be no one person saved......... (IMO)

The apostle John disagrees with you., for he specifically says that faith IS a work in John 6:29.

 

[PS]

The apostle John disagrees with you., for he specifically says that faith IS a work in John 6:29.

So believers have done God's work by believing. It is done.

 

[PS]

The apostle John disagrees with you., for he specifically says that faith IS a work in John 6:29.

No. There is no such thing as saying a sinner’s prayer to be saved in the Bible. This is a commandment of men. Matthew 15:9 says they were teaching FOR DOCTRINE the commandments of men. And their worship was vain or useless I affirm that saying a sinner’s prayer to be saved is vain totally...(Beckworth)

'
This is what Jesus was saying. You do not have to do works of the law. If you believe, you have done the work of God. Anything else is of man.

 

[Beckworth]

When the people asked Jesus what work they could perform

Jesus reply was it is the work of god we believe

You want to give god your work as payment for sin and trust god will accept it. Feel free

Eternity is to long for me to rely on my own work

That does not answer my question. Is water baptism from man or God?

 

[Beckworth]

If it is from God then you need to obey it. It is a work of God, just like faith. John 6:29 that’s why Mark 16:16 gives equal importance to faith AND baptism. Both are necessary to salvation.

 

[fredoheaven]

To say we are not saved by works is to say we are not saved by faith because the Bible says faith is a work. John 6:29.

To say we are not saved by works is misleading. There are at least 3 or 4 different kinds of works talked about in the Bible. Some works we are not saved by are the works of the Old Testament law of Moses. Galatians. To try to be justified by these you will fall from Grace. Another kind of work are the ones men boast about ( boastful works) these are works that come from men. That ORIGINATE with men. These are not works of God. Some that come to mind are “playing ball for Jesus” or selling chicken dinners to raise money for a good cause. Did Jesus tell you to do these things? Then they didn’t come from him. And we know they were boastful works because in the scene in the gospels when Jesus turns these people away they say “...but Lord we have Done many mighty works in your name. But he will say depart from me you who work lawlessness ( without law or authority from God.) there are other works mentioned in the Bible ( works of the flesh-Galatians) but the most important one you need to remember is that there are also works of God. These works are those that come from God not men and they are commanded by God and they are approved by God. Faith is this kind of wrk in John 6:29. In fact, the Holy Spirit says this is the work of God that you believe. So you are misleading people to say we are not saved by works at all. Plus you are contradicting yourself if you turn around and say we are saved by faith. Mark 12:24- “you do err not knowing the scriptures.”

John 6:26-33
Jesus answered them and said, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Ye seek me, not because ye saw the miracles, but because ye did eat of the loaves, and were filled. 27Labour not for the meat which perisheth, but for that meat which endureth unto everlasting life, which the Son of man shall give unto you: for him hath God the Father sealed. 28Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God? 29Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent. 30They said therefore unto him, What sign shewest thou then, that we may see, and believe thee? what dost thou work?31Our fathers did eat manna in the desert; as it is written, He gave them bread from heaven to eat. 32Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Moses gave you not that bread from heaven; but my Father giveth you the true bread from heaven. 33For the bread of God is he which cometh down from heaven, and giveth life unto the world. 34Then said they unto him, Lord, evermore give us this bread.

Everlating life as seen is not our labour. It's Jesus who will give to those who will believe. The Jews wanted to work for it but Jesus said, this is the work of God. The context is not about faith is a work but the subject being discussed by our Lord is life everlasting. through believing in whom God the Father has sent.

Acts 4:12 Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.

and that name is Jesus not in water baptism.

 

[fredoheaven]

As I was saying to garee, he showed his faith by offering the sacrifice that God commanded him to. He showed his faith by doing the correct work. Cain refused to do so even when God gave him a second chance to do so and even told him specifically what was required for him to do.

Genesis 4:6-7 literally states that. The NLT shows the meaning of the KJV clearly

7 You will be accepted if you do what is right. But if you refuse to do what is right, then watch out! Sin is crouching at the door, eager to control you. But you must subdue it and be its master.”

I do understand it may be a heresy to those who subscribe to covenant theology, to accept that there were times where works are needed to show faith.

Once you realise this, however, James 2 becomes so much easier to understand.

If you mean this is a showing of faith therefore it is already a result which you conflicted your own. Works are result of faith.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

You did not answer the argument. My point is that Baptism is just as much a work of God as Faith. Are you saying that baptism is not a work of God? Are you denying that Jesus commanded it in the great commission in Matthew 28? Are you saying that it originated with man? If not, then how can you say it is MY work? It is no more My work than Faith is YOUR work.

There is a very simple solution to all of this. Just believe what the Bible says. Here are the facts: faith saves, yes. I don’t deny that. But Faith by itself does not. James 2:24. Baptism also saves. 1 Peter 3:21. Baptism now saves us Mark 16:16 Belief plus baptism equals salvation. Acts 2:38 baptism is for the remission of sins. Acts 22:16 baptism washes away sin. Why is it so hard to believe what Jesus said in Mark 16:16– that it takes BOTH faith AND baptism to be saved ? Satan does not want you to believe this.

Remember that Jesus said that Satan was the father of lies. He was a liar in the beginning God very plainly said that Adam and Eve were not to eat the fruit from the tree of knowledge or else they would die. Yet Satan comes along and plainly contradicts what God said. He said “you will not die.” God said”you will die”. Satan said”you will Not die” And we wonder why anyone would not believe What God said. Why would they choose to believe a lie?

Fast forward to 2019. God plainly says in his Holy Book the Bible, inspired by the Holy Ghost, God breathed scriptures, that we are NOT SAVED BY FAITH ONLY (James 2:24). Yet Satan comes along and through John Calvin says “you ARE saved by faith only” and many, many people are choosing to believe man (Satan) over God. It’s a lie, folks. Don’t be deceived like Adam and Eve. God has been very plain on these matters. Believe God, not man.

You did not answer my original comment.

Jesus said it is GOdS work that we believe.

Your baptism argument is meaningless when it comes next to that.

 

[Beckworth]

John 6:26-33
Jesus answered them and said, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Ye seek me, not because ye saw the miracles, but because ye did eat of the loaves, and were filled. 27Labour not for the meat which perisheth, but for that meat which endureth unto everlasting life, which the Son of man shall give unto you: for him hath God the Father sealed. 28Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God? 29Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent. 30They said therefore unto him, What sign shewest thou then, that we may see, and believe thee? what dost thou work?31Our fathers did eat manna in the desert; as it is written, He gave them bread from heaven to eat. 32Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Moses gave you not that bread from heaven; but my Father giveth you the true bread from heaven. 33For the bread of God is he which cometh down from heaven, and giveth life unto the world. 34Then said they unto him, Lord, evermore give us this bread.

Everlating life as seen is not our labour. It's Jesus who will give to those who will believe. The Jews wanted to work for it but Jesus said, this is the work of God. The context is not about faith is a work but the subject being discussed by our Lord is life everlasting. through believing in whom God the Father has sent.

Acts 4:12 Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.

and that name is Jesus not in water baptism.

Jesus said in Matthew 28:18 ...”baptizing them into the NAME of the Father, The Son and the Holy Ghost. That is how you access the name of Jesus. GALATIONS 3:27- as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ. You cannot separate the name of Jesus from. Water baptism.