Did Jesus ever tell us that we no longer need to keep the law of Moses?

[DeighAnn]

I am thinking you have made it very clear what you believe with regards to the law and grace.... I prefer to be and continue to be a broken record on this topic always.

If someone were to ask me "Does he teach to follow the New Covenant law or not?" would I say

Though from past experience and my knowledge of the situation, I am fairly sure it is not possible, but I am going to ask any way,

Could you type EITHER " I teach to follow the New Covenant Law" Or "I teach to NOT follow the New Covenant Law" depending on what your true belief is?

 

[DeighAnn]

the ministry of death and condemnation"

What is the ministry of death and condemnation?

 

[UnderGrace]

If someone were to ask me "Does he teach to follow the New Covenant law or not?" would I say

Though from past experience and my knowledge of the situation, I am fairly sure it is not possible, but I am going to ask any way,

Could you type EITHER " I teach to follow the New Covenant Law" Or "I teach to NOT follow the New Covenant Law" depending on what your true belief is?

Sorry but I am not understanding

 

[DeighAnn]

@DeighAnn I should state in the time period surrounding when the temple was destroyed.

I understand the destruction of the temple period and I believe that was a most awful time and an example of things that will be headed our way. I was (and still will be) going back to finish a study of Matt 24, Mark 13 and Luke 21. I went to fit them all together. I found that Matt and Mark most definitely tell of the future event and you can almost throw out one of them, but when I came to fitting Luke in there, it almost felt like 2 magnets in opposition. I had some one mention to me that Luke is not a description of the future but is in fact a description of the events of 70 ad. This, of course, goes against EVERYTHING I KNEW as fact. So I put it on a shelf so that I could get "my flesh out of it" and see what may be revealed. Does that fit in with anything you have come across?

 

[DeighAnn]

Sorry but I am not understanding

Some one comes and asks me this question
"Does Under Grace teach to follow the New Covenant Law?" What would I answer them to give an accurate account of your position?

 

[UnderGrace]

I understand the destruction of the temple period and I believe that was a most awful time and an example of things that will be headed our way. I was (and still will be) going back to finish a study of Matt 24, Mark 13 and Luke 21. I went to fit them all together. I found that Matt and Mark most definitely tell of the future event and you can almost throw out one of them, but when I came to fitting Luke in there, it almost felt like 2 magnets in opposition. I had some one mention to me that Luke is not a description of the future but is in fact a description of the events of 70 ad. This, of course, goes against EVERYTHING I KNEW as fact. So I put it on a shelf so that I could get "my flesh out of it" and see what may be revealed. Does that fit in with anything you have come across?

All three pertain to the destruction of the temple during the time period surrounding 70 AD

 

[UnderGrace]

Some one comes and asks me this question
"Does Under Grace teach to follow the New Covenant Law?" What would I answer them to give an accurate account of your position?

Is there a "new law" in the new covenant would be my question back for clarification?

 

[DeighAnn]

Is there a "new law" in the new covenant would be my question back for clarification?

Yes, last time I promise. New law is written inside of you.

 

[DeighAnn]

All three pertain to the destruction of the temple during the time period surrounding 70 AD

Then where are the descriptions to be found of the end times or the last generations events? Fig tree generation.

 

[UnderGrace]

Then where are the descriptions to be found of the end times or the last generations events?

Do you mean the historical descriptions?
For those one would need to read the historians living at the time period or least close to that time period for a first hand account.

 

[UnderGrace]

Is there a "new law" in the new covenant would be my question back for clarification?

I teach to live out/manifest the reality that you are new creation in Christ.

 

[Karraster]

If we were to all go back to the beginning of this thread and read all the posts, those who "advocate" almost exclusively the "feelings of or doctrine most like or most of the time taken to mean" ONE work, law not for gentiles, just Holy led, you would find the opposite to be happening of what they are preaching it produces. Instead what we see do see happening is a distinct lack of love and empathy that comes across the postings.

Yet those who find those who support the Law as something to keep and obey and use as the guide for right and wrong, good and evil, law and lawless, right up there with the Holy Spirit led life, have love in theirs.

We are over 1600 posts in. You think I am lying? If you think I am, the proof is right there at your back button. Who is angriest, most aggressive, most monotonous, most bullying, most peaceful, most thoughtful, most wise, most like God wants us to be? It is super easy to see. Can it be denied?

If you are wavering on which path is right, start at the beginning. It really will not take you long at all to see which doctrine is right, for you

It's what you describe that caused me to seek what was missing in my walk. I wanted that peace that surpasses all understanding, the ability to love my brothers/sisters that was demonstrated by a few who claimed "now that we have the testimony of Jesus, we need to live like it and keep the commandments." Before that I wore a WWJD bracelet and tried to imagined what He would do but the reality is, He quoted what was written, He did what was written. There's a lot of room for improvement in this old girl, I need His grace every minute to become more like Him. So thankful for the Word and His spirit to guide us. Thankful for CC too, and also your posts I've enjoyed reading them.

 

[Karraster]

The language here speaks powerfully.
If works are taken out of grace, what is the point of grace.

Grace is just God forgiving sinners and letting them into heaven without change.

Is there a better definition of universalism than this?

Does entering a church qualify as faith? Does openning the cover of a bible?
Does speaking the sinners prayer or speaking the nicean creed?

Are really all church goers saved and full of the Holy Spirit no matter how hypocritical their lives are?

Once you make the Kingdom of Heaven sinners in faith skin, all are actually saved.
A friend of mine said they understood my faith in Jesus and agreed with the sentiments expressed.
Are they saved, because there hearts agree with the direction?
Or what about those who go to church, know Jesus's touch, but think it is all just a trick of the mind?

Jesus seems to be saying we are all or nothing. Either His love has touched our hearts or it is just
leaves being blown in the wind. But who am I to speak, I can but look to Jesus's words to know where
I should stand. God bless you.

Almost missed this, which would have been a shame. Thank you, well said. Reminds me of As it is written: “God’s name is blasphemed among the Gentiles because of you.” Because if our lives are not changed, we are no better than those this scripture was referring to.

 

[preston39]

New, new age religion interpretations f scriptures are usually amazing.... in that they do not comply with common sense;

In this instance if we do not follow G-d's commands then pray tell what standard do we follow to gauge the proper level of righteousness?

 

[DeighAnn]

It's what you describe that caused me to seek what was missing in my walk. I wanted that peace that surpasses all understanding, the ability to love my brothers/sisters that was demonstrated by a few who claimed "now that we have the testimony of Jesus, we need to live like it and keep the commandments." Before that I wore a WWJD bracelet and tried to imagined what He would do but the reality is, He quoted what was written, He did what was written. There's a lot of room for improvement in this old girl, I need His grace every minute to become more like Him. So thankful for the Word and His spirit to guide us. Thankful for CC too, and also your posts I've enjoyed reading them.

I believe God reveals so much of Himself through every word written to us in this letter. I can feel His presence in me and my life, but to really get to know some one you have to sit down and talk to them and listen to them and there is only one way we can be sure we are talking to God and that is through the words written to us. We will never meet anyone more loving, or smarter, or more powerful....And when I was young and saved and baptized and "I knew God loved me and we had a special relationship that no one else understood" and one day I figured out He really did know all about me, but what did I with in my "spirit led I love you, you love me I am a good person" life REALLY know about HIM? And I got to thinking "WHY was I made to feel so comfortable in my life NOT READING THE LETTER?" And that is a really long letter, and by the grace of God, I went to prove something to someone about God and I was 100% wrong. Thank you God.
And now I know. And now I understand. And now it is the love of my life. There isn't anything about God and the Word that I don't love. And the first time one of His promises comes true, You are nothing but thankful and amazed and wanting more. And all you have to do is seek. And I needed a lot of improvement and you are not kidding when you said "I need His grace every minute to become more like Him". Is there anything better to aspire to? And it has nothing to do with the "brownie points", He has blessed me more than I ever deserved already, Its about becoming that better person because the better I am the more I can relate to Him. It is the best being captured by the Lord. God Bless You, enjoy the walk and until me meet....

 

[lightbearer]

The word in verse 8 and Christ in verses 7 and 6 are being used synonymously Romans 10. The word equals Christ because it is of and through Christ.

Christ, the word in the heart and mouth, that is, (In other words) what was just stated Christ, the word in the heart and mouth is the word of faith in which we preach.

What is the word of Faith in which we preach? Christ, through which the word is in the heart and mouth.

What is even more interesting is Romans 10:6-8 is a paraphrase of Deut 30: 11-14. Those who received this letter would of known this and made another connection as they compared the two.

And the LORD thy God will circumcise thine heart, and the heart of thy seed, to love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, that thou mayest live.
(Deu 30:6 KJV)

If thou shalt hearken unto the voice of the LORD thy God, to keep his commandments and his statutes which are written in this book of the law, and if thou turn unto the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul. For this commandment which I command thee this day (to hearken unto the voice of the LORD thy God, to keep his commandments and his statutes which are written in this book of the law), it is not hidden from thee, neither is it far off. It is not in heaven, that thou shouldest say, Who shall go up for us to heaven, and bring it unto us, that we may hear it, and do it? Neither is it beyond the sea, that thou shouldest say, Who shall go over the sea for us, and bring it unto us, that we may hear it, and do it? But the word (his commandments and his statutes which are written in this book of the law) is very nigh unto thee, in thy mouth, and in thy heart, that thou mayest do it.
(Deu 30:10-14 KJV)

They would have noticed the word, the commandment and statutes written in the book of the Law are the same word mentioned in Romans in which and through Christ has been placed in the heart and mouth.

What is even more Interesting is the prophecy in Deut 30:10-14 is being spoken in the presence tense. So the Gift of Christ in the Heart, through which His word, his commandments and his statutes which are written in this book of the law are in the heart and mouth was available at the beginning of Moses Ministry if not before.

Since Israel refused the gift. God through Jeremiah repeated it in other words as the New Covenant.

But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.
(Jer 31:33 KJV)

Please pay attention.

Romans 10:5-7
For Moses writes about the righteousness that is based on the law, that the person who does the commandments shall live by them. But the righteousness based on faith says, "Do not say in your heart, 'Who will ascend into heaven?'" (that is, to bring Christ down) or "'Who will descend into the abyss?'" (that is, to bring Christ up from the dead).

We are explicitly NOT talking about the Law.
The word being preached here is specifically CONTRASTED against the Law.

We are explicitly speaking about Christ. Through Whom the Law; the word, His commandments went from tables of stone and parchment to fleshly tables of the heart. True Faith, Christ in you the hope of glory. Christ, the word in the heart and mouth, that is the word of Faith in which we preach. And this faith, this word of Faith has been available since the time of Moses and befo


Rom 1:15 So, as much as in me is, I am ready to preach the gospel to you that are at Rome also.

Rom 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.

Rom 1:17 For therein is the righteousness of God revealed From (out of) faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by (out of) faith.


Rom 1:19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest (shining) in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.

Rom 1:20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:

Romans 10:6-8 is a paraphrase of Deut 30: 11-14. Those who received this letter would of known this and made this connection as they compared the two.

If thou shalt hearken unto the voice of the LORD thy God, to keep his commandments and his statutes which are written in this book of the law, and if thou turn unto the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul. For this commandment which I command thee this day (to hearken unto the voice of the LORD thy God, to keep his commandments and his statutes which are written in this book of the law), it is not hidden from thee, neither is it far off. It is not in heaven, that thou shouldest say, Who shall go up for us to heaven, and bring it unto us, that we may hear it, and do it? Neither is it beyond the sea, that thou shouldest say, Who shall go over the sea for us, and bring it unto us, that we may hear it, and do it? But the word (Through Christ which his commandments and his statutes which are written in this book of the law) is very nigh unto thee, in thy mouth, and in thy heart, that thou mayest do it.
(Deu 30:10-14 KJV)

Then if not before they would of made a connection between the prophecy in Deut, to the one in Jeremiah, the New Covenant. For they are synonymous.

But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law (the word, through Christ) in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.
(Jer 31:33 KJV)

A New Ministration ....written not with ink, but with the Spirit of the living God; not in tables of stone, but in fleshy tables of the heart. And such trust have we through Christ to God-ward: Not that we are sufficient of ourselves to think any thing as of ourselves; but our sufficiency is of God; Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.
(2Co 3:3-6 KJV)

The issue is trying to obey GOD from the letter. The New ministration is obedience from the heart through Christ.
By whom we have received grace and apostleship, for obedience to the faith among all nations, for his name: For Christ (through which the word, the law, His commandments are placed in the heart, mind and mouth) is the end of the law (on tables of stone and parchment) for righteousness to every one that believeth (Rom 1:5; 10:4)

For it is GOD that works in us both to will do HIS good pleasure. For in Him we live, and move, and have our being.

For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people: And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.
(Heb 8:10-11 KJV)

 

[posthuman]

The word in verse 8 and Christ in verses 7 and 6 are being used synonymously Romans 10. The word equals Christ because it is of and through Christ.

Christ, the word in the heart and mouth, that is, (In other words) what was just stated Christ, the word in the heart and mouth is the word of faith in which we preach.

What is the word of Faith in which we preach? Christ, through which the word is in the heart and mouth.

What is even more interesting is Romans 10:6-8 is a paraphrase of Deut 30: 11-14. Those who received this letter would of known this and made another connection as they compared the two.

And the LORD thy God will circumcise thine heart, and the heart of thy seed, to love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, that thou mayest live.
(Deu 30:6 KJV)

If thou shalt hearken unto the voice of the LORD thy God, to keep his commandments and his statutes which are written in this book of the law, and if thou turn unto the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul. For this commandment which I command thee this day (to hearken unto the voice of the LORD thy God, to keep his commandments and his statutes which are written in this book of the law), it is not hidden from thee, neither is it far off. It is not in heaven, that thou shouldest say, Who shall go up for us to heaven, and bring it unto us, that we may hear it, and do it? Neither is it beyond the sea, that thou shouldest say, Who shall go over the sea for us, and bring it unto us, that we may hear it, and do it? But the word (his commandments and his statutes which are written in this book of the law) is very nigh unto thee, in thy mouth, and in thy heart, that thou mayest do it.
(Deu 30:10-14 KJV)

They would have noticed the word, the commandment and statutes written in the book of the Law are the same word mentioned in Romans in which and through Christ has been placed in the heart and mouth.

What is even more Interesting is the prophecy in Deut 30:10-14 is being spoken in the presence tense. So the Gift of Christ in the Heart, through which His word, his commandments and his statutes which are written in this book of the law are in the heart and mouth was available at the beginning of Moses Ministry if not before.

Since Israel refused the gift. God through Jeremiah repeated it in other words as the New Covenant.

But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.
(Jer 31:33 KJV)

We are explicitly speaking about Christ. Through Whom the Law; the word, His commandments went from tables of stone and parchment to fleshly tables of the heart. True Faith, Christ in you the hope of glory. Christ, the word in the heart and mouth, that is the word of Faith in which we preach. And this faith, this word of Faith has been available since the time of Moses and befo


Rom 1:15 So, as much as in me is, I am ready to preach the gospel to you that are at Rome also.

Rom 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.

Rom 1:17 For therein is the righteousness of God revealed From (out of) faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by (out of) faith.


Rom 1:19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest (shining) in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.

Rom 1:20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:

Romans 10:6-8 is a paraphrase of Deut 30: 11-14. Those who received this letter would of known this and made this connection as they compared the two.

If thou shalt hearken unto the voice of the LORD thy God, to keep his commandments and his statutes which are written in this book of the law, and if thou turn unto the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul. For this commandment which I command thee this day (to hearken unto the voice of the LORD thy God, to keep his commandments and his statutes which are written in this book of the law), it is not hidden from thee, neither is it far off. It is not in heaven, that thou shouldest say, Who shall go up for us to heaven, and bring it unto us, that we may hear it, and do it? Neither is it beyond the sea, that thou shouldest say, Who shall go over the sea for us, and bring it unto us, that we may hear it, and do it? But the word (Through Christ which his commandments and his statutes which are written in this book of the law) is very nigh unto thee, in thy mouth, and in thy heart, that thou mayest do it.
(Deu 30:10-14 KJV)

Then if not before they would of made a connection between the prophecy in Deut, to the one in Jeremiah, the New Covenant. For they are synonymous.

But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law (the word, through Christ) in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.
(Jer 31:33 KJV)

A New Ministration ....written not with ink, but with the Spirit of the living God; not in tables of stone, but in fleshy tables of the heart. And such trust have we through Christ to God-ward: Not that we are sufficient of ourselves to think any thing as of ourselves; but our sufficiency is of God; Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.
(2Co 3:3-6 KJV)

The issue is trying to obey GOD from the letter. The New ministration is obedience from the heart through Christ.
By whom we have received grace and apostleship, for obedience to the faith among all nations, for his name: For Christ (through which the word, the law, His commandments are placed in the heart, mind and mouth) is the end of the law (on tables of stone and parchment) for righteousness to every one that believeth (Rom 1:5; 10:4)

For it is GOD that works in us both to will do HIS good pleasure. For in Him we live, and move, and have our being.

For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people: And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.
(Heb 8:10-11 KJV)

the message concerning faith that we proclaim: ​

if you declare with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved, for it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you profess your faith and are saved. ​

(Romans 10:8-10)​

​

 

[Grandpa]

I believe God reveals so much of Himself through every word written to us in this letter. I can feel His presence in me and my life, but to really get to know some one you have to sit down and talk to them and listen to them and there is only one way we can be sure we are talking to God and that is through the words written to us. We will never meet anyone more loving, or smarter, or more powerful....And when I was young and saved and baptized and "I knew God loved me and we had a special relationship that no one else understood" and one day I figured out He really did know all about me, but what did I with in my "spirit led I love you, you love me I am a good person" life REALLY know about HIM? And I got to thinking "WHY was I made to feel so comfortable in my life NOT READING THE LETTER?" And that is a really long letter, and by the grace of God, I went to prove something to someone about God and I was 100% wrong. Thank you God.
And now I know. And now I understand. And now it is the love of my life. There isn't anything about God and the Word that I don't love. And the first time one of His promises comes true, You are nothing but thankful and amazed and wanting more. And all you have to do is seek. And I needed a lot of improvement and you are not kidding when you said "I need His grace every minute to become more like Him". Is there anything better to aspire to? And it has nothing to do with the "brownie points", He has blessed me more than I ever deserved already, Its about becoming that better person because the better I am the more I can relate to Him. It is the best being captured by the Lord. God Bless You, enjoy the walk and until me meet....

1 Timothy 1:9-10
9 Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers,

10 For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine;

Galatians 2:21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.

Romans 8:2-3
2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.

3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:

2 Corinthians 3:6-9
6 Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.
7 But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away:
8 How shall not the ministration of the spirit be rather glorious?
9 For if the ministration of condemnation be glory, much more doth the ministration of righteousness exceed in glory.

Galatians 3:10-11
10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.

11 But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith.

 

[SimpleGardner]

Yes, it's not there (in the Gospels)! So, we have to rely on what Paul said, if we want to be free from the burden of the Law.

Greetings Marcelo,

I do see it differently; King David for example had the anointing of the Holy Spirit. There are many confirmations of this, I particularly like:

Psa 51:11-13 KJV Cast me not away from thy presence; and take not thy holy spirit from me. (12) Restore unto me the joy of thy salvation; and uphold me with thy free spirit. (13) Then will I teach transgressors thy ways; and sinners shall be converted unto thee.

Through the Holy Spirit David fell in love with Gods Laws/Ways/Judgements etc!:

Psa 119:97-100 KJV MEM. O how love I thy law! it is my meditation all the day. (98) Thou through thy commandments hast made me wiser than mine enemies: for they are ever with me. (99) I have more understanding than all my teachers: for thy testimonies are my meditation. (100) I understand more than the ancients, because I keep thy precepts.

Even with the Holy Spirit David Loved Gods Laws! Does it sound like he was in bondage to the Law?

Gods intentions are a Kingdom of David's, men after His own Heart!

Why did David love Gods Laws so much? Because Gods Laws are not a form of Bondage, but are Liberty.

Look at our own nation, The USA. Founded upon many of Gods Laws we formed a land of Freedom and Liberty. But look at what is happening as our nation becomes more "lawless"; we are losing our Freedom and Liberties!

Gods Laws are the essence of freedom and liberty.

God calls us to accept Jesus Christ as personal Savior. We are also called to a life of obedience to God’s commandments.

Law-keeping does not earn a person salvation, which is a gift from God (Romans 6:23); the keeping of His laws is our grateful response to God (1 John 5:2-3; John 14:15, 21).


p.s. I watched/listened to some of the acapella videos you shared! Amazing! I was one of the first people in line to buy Glad's "Acapella Project" way back when!

 

[Dan_473]

\\


Yes, and on his deathbed, their father Jacob curses Simeon and Levi's anger ;

Gen 49:5-7 NIV "Simeon and Levi are brothers— their swords are weapons of violence. (6) Let me not enter their council, let me not join their assembly, for they have killed men in their anger and hamstrung oxen as they pleased. (7) Cursed be their anger, so fierce, and their fury, so cruel! I will scatter them in Jacob and disperse them in Israel.

So true!
James 1: 19. So, then, my beloved brothers, let every man be swift to hear, slow to speak, and slow to anger; 20. for the anger of man doesn't produce the righteousness of God.