Born Again Speaking in Tongues

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Mar 28, 2016
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I will say Isaiah 28 has no bearing on speaking in tongues. It was a curse pronounced on Ephraim and the drunkards leading them. Like Dino said prayer tongues has nothing to do with prophecy. This is prayer tongues described: 1 Cor. 14:14 "For if I pray in an unknown tongue, my spirit prayeth, but my understanding is unfruitful." Paul admonished them to keep this out of public places unless interpreted.

I never said everyone must have tongues or they weren't saved. I also don't think you must have the signs spoken of to be saved. I have witnessed prophetic tongues myself but never have participated in such. My prayer tongues are different.

Sometimes I get little hints about what I am praying for while in tongues. Oral Roberts always insisted you can discern all of your prayer tongues. I don't find that the case. In fact; God told me I don't need, nor should I want, to know everything. I may be praying for a future tragedy, I will go through, and if I knew beforehand I would surely worry about it. :rolleyes:

Isaiah 28 is clearly the foundation of the tongue doctrine spoken of as the law in 1 Corinthians 14. God mocking the Jew who refuse to hear prophecy in order to represent unbelief in mankind.. Like in Jerimiah 44. which in affect says: we will not hearken onto your word .But we will rather do whatsoever our own mouths as oral tradition of men declare .like this unknown seeking of the unknown language to give unknown results to prevent a person from worrying about unknowns in the future. .. .

Tongue is prophecy as one of the many manner that indicates God has spoken. This is when he was still bring new revelations.

The word unknown in the verse you offered was added for some odd reason? Its the unknown criterion that men try to build on and not prophecy .It introduces mysticism a wonderment which is not a source of faith. Scripture alone is.

Its the same timing of the prophecy of Joel promising God would come and bring prophecy through the tongues of men and woman of all nations as a new tongue. The gospel no longer after the Hebrew tongue. They made a mockery of the word of God .They say we refuse to hear what prophecy as a whole says.... if they desire a wonderment that has no knowledge. . . they wish to be left alone..to their various wonderments. or weekly fillings to confirm something unknown pick me uppers calling it a gift..

John 4:48 Then said Jesus unto him, Except ye see signs and wonders, ye will not believe.

Once a person establishes what the law is and what it confirms in regard to the sign which is not the same as the doctrine of tongue .The sign of tongues is another doctrine revealing unbelief in mankind . Two different purposes. prophecy/ tongues as a blessing, the sign as a curse.

No such thing as a sign gift .Spiritual gifts not seen yes. (can't see a spirit) Outward signs are designed for those who believe not prophecy.
 
Mar 28, 2016
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Moses wrote down the Law 430 years AFTER Abraham.

Abraham COULD NOT have read the Law. So Abraham COULD NOT have obtained faith from the written word. That was your argument. It has been refuted. Don't blunder off into new territory without dealing with the implications of this first.
I have not left the path for new territory . You have refuted nothing .You are trying to create something I did try and say .

No one is saying Abraham obtained faith from the written law.... it became proof he was given the faith of Christ by which he could believe. as a written law. The written law shows that the faith of Christ worked in Abraham just as it does in all believers. Moses was moved to record the how God moved Abraham to both will and do his good pleasure .
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
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I have not left the path for new territory . You have refuted nothing .You are trying to create something I did try and say .

No one is saying Abraham obtained faith from the written law.... it became proof he was given the faith of Christ by which he could believe. as a written law. The written law shows that the faith of Christ worked in Abraham just as it does in all believers. Moses was moved to record the how God moved Abraham to both will and do his good pleasure .
Here is what you wrote in a recent post: “There remains one source of Christ's faith. . . as it is written.” So either I misunderstood you, or you are claiming that Abraham obtained faith from what is written.

Now, how about dealing with your baseless accusation.
 
Mar 28, 2016
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Here is what you wrote in a recent post: “There remains one source of Christ's faith. . . as it is written.” So either I misunderstood you, or you are claiming that Abraham obtained faith from what is written.

Now, how about dealing with your baseless accusation.
That is the one source of His faith. The Word of God in all its entirety is the gospel our new tongue

You are supporting something to confirm something?

Abraham obtained faith, as is written. Not from.The faith that moved him to do the will of Him unseen .

Can't separate the spirit of faith from, as it is written the letter of the law .

Yes, the same spirit of faith, the spirit of revelation that moved Abraham, as it is written. It representing the unseen faith of God (its how we know of Abraham ) Moved Moses as it is written to record the work of faith .. Its the same work of faith or labor of love that works in the believer to both will and do His good pleasure .He says we should do so without murmuring.

Can experience as a wonderment be a source of faith? or as Jesus said. . as it is written. Is praying with words without meaning a source of faith .Or yet for all that some refuse the authority as it is written

Waiting for you to confirm the law in respect to the sign . What does the sign confirm? Praying in a unknown tongue or those who refuse prophecy as the final authority because some lean on their own oral traditions as wonderments as in yet for all that they serve another gospel not prophecy alone the one source of faith as it is written.
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
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That is the one source of His faith. The Word of God in all its entirety is the gospel our new tongue
Please provide clear scriptural evidence supporting the idea that the "new tongue" is the gospel.

You are supporting something to confirm something?
Are you making another accusation that you don't have the integrity to support with evidence?

Abraham obtained faith, as is written. Not from.The faith that moved him to do the will of Him unseen .
Thanks for clarifying.

Can't separate the spirit of faith from, as it is written the letter of the law .
Please learn how to construct a proper sentence. The above isn't one. You have no excuses.

Yes, the same spirit of faith, the spirit of revelation that moved Abraham, as it is written. It representing the unseen faith of God (its how we know of Abraham ) Moved Moses as it is written to record the work of faith .. Its the same work of faith or labor of love that works in the believer to both will and do His good pleasure .He says we should do so without murmuring.
"It" in "as it is written" does not represent the unseen faith of God. The "it" simply is a pronoun. That's all.

Can experience as a wonderment be a source of faith? or as Jesus said. . as it is written. Is praying with words without meaning a source of faith .Or yet for all that some refuse the authority as it is written
Why don't you ask someone who claims that it is. Quote them so we can all read their claims.

Waiting for you to confirm the law in respect to the sign . What does the sign confirm? Praying in a unknown tongue or those who refuse prophecy as the final authority because some lean on their own oral traditions as wonderments as in yet for all that they serve another gospel not prophecy alone the one source of faith as it is written.
Waiting for you to move on.
 

Kavik

Senior Member
Mar 25, 2017
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What paul said about tongues.

What acts says about recieving them (ie the baptism in the Holy Spirit) through laying on of hands.
Pauls personal testimony. (My spirit prays but my mind is without understanding)

Paul’s letter to the Corinthians has been addressed in previous posts (see Speaking in Tongues thread – post #4,769 and earlier).

Acts – assume you’re referencing Paul in Ephesus (?). Again, see the same thread reference above, post $231 (and maybe earlier).

There is nothing in Paul’s letter, nor in the Ephesus narrative, regarding “tongues” that does not refer to real, rational language(s). Same can be said of ‘Peter in the home of Cornelius’ narrative.

Not sure I understand your point regarding the Guugu Yimidhirr language video.
 
Jul 23, 2018
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Paul’s letter to the Corinthians has been addressed in previous posts (see Speaking in Tongues thread – post #4,769 and earlier).

Acts – assume you’re referencing Paul in Ephesus (?). Again, see the same thread reference above, post $231 (and maybe earlier).

There is nothing in Paul’s letter, nor in the Ephesus narrative, regarding “tongues” that does not refer to real, rational language(s). Same can be said of ‘Peter in the home of Cornelius’ narrative.

Not sure I understand your point regarding the Guugu Yimidhirr language video.
If i have to keep pointing out the obvious....just too tedious.
Or you are purposefully obtuse
 
Jul 23, 2018
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IOW,with a boggus starting place,and that starting place as the framer for ALL SUBSEQUENT thought,filtering,and measurement,who am i to kick down your sand castles?
 
Jul 23, 2018
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Its like shouting from the bleachers to the right fielder at a braves game:
"Baseball is extinct,it passed away in 1948. This is all fake. It traces back to cricket in England. You are not real"
 
Mar 28, 2016
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"It" in "as it is written" does not represent the unseen faith of God. The "it" simply is a pronoun. That's all.
A pronoun in respect to what person? The father who put his words, as it is written as a work of his faith on the lips of the Son of man Jesus who said , as it is written as a witness to the will of the father.?

What if some believe not the word of God. Would it make the faith of God without effect as a work to effect something is to work it out.. . or does it work in us us to both will and do His good pleasure?

It is the key that the gates of hell could never prevail against... the binding and loosening tool. Some attibute it to Peter.

And Jesus answering said to him, `Happy art thou, Simon Bar-Jona, because flesh and blood did not reveal it to thee, but my Father who is in the heavens.`And I also say to thee, that thou art a rock, and upon this rock I will build my assembly, and gates of Hades shall not prevail against it; and I will give to thee the keys of the reign of the heavens, and whatever thou mayest bind upon the earth shall be having been bound in the heavens, and whatever thou mayest loose upon the earth shall be having been loosed in the heavens.'

What do you think the it defines?
 
Mar 28, 2016
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Its like shouting from the bleachers to the right fielder at a braves game:
"Baseball is extinct,it passed away in 1948. This is all fake. It traces back to cricket in England. You are not real"


Shouting unknown words without meaning? Sound more like a up roar.. fake noises?
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
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A pronoun in respect to what person? The father who put his words, as it is written as a work of his faith on the lips of the Son of man Jesus who said , as it is written as a witness to the will of the father.?
The "it" does not refer to a person; it's a reflexive pronoun with no other meaning.

It is the key that the gates of hell could never prevail against... the binding and loosening tool. Some attibute it to Peter.
The verse says, "I will build My church, and the gates of hell will not prevail against it". You're conflating things that should not be conflated.

And Jesus answering said to him, `Happy art thou, Simon Bar-Jona, because flesh and blood did not reveal it to thee, but my Father who is in the heavens.`And I also say to thee, that thou art a rock, and upon this rock I will build my assembly, and gates of Hades shall not prevail against it; and I will give to thee the keys of the reign of the heavens, and whatever thou mayest bind upon the earth shall be having been bound in the heavens, and whatever thou mayest loose upon the earth shall be having been loosed in the heavens.'

What do you think the it defines?
Asked and answered, twice.
 
Mar 28, 2016
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The "it" does not refer to a person; it's a reflexive pronoun with no other meaning.
Not really sure . . . what's a reflexive pronoun? Does it reflect something?

No other meaning, as no other meaning seen? or one hidden? like walking by faith the unseen meaning. . . hid in parables? The word it in as it is written points to the source of persons faith from where it comes from above inspired from heaven .

it is why Jesus when Jesus was offered a alternative source of faith (illusions of the fleshly mind) He said, it is written again and again .

The father sent Jesus the Son of man into the wilderness as our scapegoat who was tested not eaten 40 days... ...gave him the meat to eat. . . the words of the father, the kind of unseen food the disciples were learning about the rest of their lives. It represented the gospel, key, the key of faith.....
 
Mar 28, 2016
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The verse says, "I will build My church, and the gates of hell will not prevail against it". You're conflating things that should not be conflated.

I would think he built it as it is written? Not in respect to flesh and blood Peter .It revealed to Peter what it was ..the faith needed to believe God not seen .

Both uses of the word it represent the gospel key of faith.

And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven. And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.mathew26:17-19
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
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Not really sure . . . what's a reflexive pronoun? Does it reflect something?
In a sense, yes. Reflexive effectively means "reflected on self". "I hit myself in the face" uses "myself" as a reflexive pronoun; the word "myself" replaces the implied "me" or my name, which would lead people to think that I hit someone other than myself.

In the verse in question, the phrase, "As it is written, '...'," the "it" refers to what is written. Another way of writing that might be, "As the Scripture clearly says, '...'" or "As is written in the Scriptures, '....'" The "it" merely refers to what is written, without the awkward sentence structure.

No other meaning, as no other meaning seen? or one hidden? like walking by faith the unseen meaning. . . hid in parables? The word it in as it is written points to the source of persons faith from where it comes from above inspired from heaven .
No other meaning, like none at all. It's not an issue of 'unseen' or 'hidden' meaning. It's simply an aspect of English grammar.
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
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The verse says, "I will build My church, and the gates of hell will not prevail against it". You're conflating things that should not be conflated.

I would think he built it as it is written? Not in respect to flesh and blood Peter .It revealed to Peter what it was ..the faith needed to believe God not seen .

Both uses of the word it represent the gospel key of faith.

And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven. And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.mathew26:17-19
You're incorrect on this matter. Unfortunately, because you don't seem to grasp the subtleties of English grammar, you are making assertions that the text simply does not support.

Again, you would do yourself a favour by learning basic grammar. At the very least, your posts would be easier for others to understand.
 

CS1

Well-known member
May 23, 2012
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Then show me where they got saved before they spoke in tongues.
I will wait
Ok fair question and will explain as I understand it Remeber Jesus told Peter in verse 15 of Chapter 10
"What God has cleansed you must not call common.” 16 This was done three times. And the object was taken up into heaven again.

this is the starting point of the Narrative of those who Peter was to go and see.

In Verse 19 the "Spirit"
was leading Peter to three men who were looking for him. after Peter got there he began to preach in verse

Verse 34. In verse 36 Peter says :
"The word which God sent to the children of Israel, preaching peace through Jesus ChristHe is Lord of all— 37 that word you know,

These men have heard the Gospel message Peter said they Knew it. Past tense. Jesus is Lord was preached repentance was preached. That is what Peter just said.

"which was proclaimed throughout all Judea, and began from Galilee after the baptism which John preached: "

Peter continues and somewhere in the message, they have received by faith the Lord Jesus through the Preaching of the Gospel.

Remember it was Jesus who said the preaching of the gospel would save people by grace through faith.

Verse 44 says :
44 While Peter was still speaking these words, the Holy Spirit fell upon all those who heard the word.

" HEARD" THE WORD past tense the word Heard means in the Greek
to attend to, consider what is or has been said to comprehend, to understand



Word" is logos here the same as in John 1 Speaking of Jesus which is the context that is being preached by Peter they heard it they received and then the Holy Spirit Confirmed the Word AS Jesus said the Holy Spirit will do In John 14.
One more very telling thing after this event.
Peter says in verse 47


"Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we? "

How did Peter receive the empowerment of the Holy Spirit? After he was saved. Jesus said the Power of the Holy Spirit was for the purpose of witnessing Acts 1:8 Jesus Speaking why? because they were already saved. again verse 48 to affirms a past tense experience

they were saved just as Peter said in Acts t2 when asked: "what must we do to be saved "? Believe = saved than be baptized.

same thing right here. we do not have to split hairs when the normative is seen throughout the book of Acts.
And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.