Why I now believe that salvation can be lost.
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Well, no one trusting in their own works and maintaining their own salvation is going to make it to heaven, so by what you say above I guess you think I will be spending eternity in hell fire . . .
I do not agree theologically with those who believe in OSAS, but I am not going to say that all of them will be in hell fire.
I do not agree theologically with those who believe in OSAS, but I am not going to say that all of them will be in hell fire.
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I see it that you called OSAS is more as a product of or coming from the Holy Spirit. . .not what we have in or towards it. I would guess you think those who are trusting they have become a new born again creature (OSAS) would think that those who do not agree, will never.
But I would think some understand. They also had that kind of faith at first. . . . becoming rich with grace growing up knowledge of the word, leading to better understanding on how we can hear God not seen? A new understanding spoken of in Philippians 1:6. . the growing of faith that gives a living confidence in so much that if God began the good born again work...in us he will continue to the end. .
having been confident of this very thing, that He who did begin in you a good work, will perform it till a day of Jesus Christ Philippians 1:6,
That exclusive faith that come from hearing God rises above trusting in the ceremonial laws in respect to the work of man hands or what the eyes see.
Dead works are ceremonial laws as shadows having no redeeming power. Hopefully we will not be found with those that crucify Christ over and over every time they repent .
Hebrews 6 Young's Literal Translation (YLT) Wherefore, having left the word of the beginning of the Christ, unto the perfection we may advance, not again a foundation laying of reformation from dead works, and of faith on God, of the teaching of baptisms, of laying on also of hands, of rising again also of the dead, and of judgment age-during
The one thing we all need he provides. Recognition. The better than pride things that accompany salvation . He promises us He will not forget the love through the good works we offered towards His name..That can be refreshing in a time of need.
and we are persuaded, concerning you, beloved, the things that are better, and accompanying salvation, though even thus we speak, for God is not unrighteous to forget your work, and the labour of the love, that ye shewed to His name, having ministered to the saints and ministering;Hebrews 6:9-10
But I would think some understand. They also had that kind of faith at first. . . . becoming rich with grace growing up knowledge of the word, leading to better understanding on how we can hear God not seen? A new understanding spoken of in Philippians 1:6. . the growing of faith that gives a living confidence in so much that if God began the good born again work...in us he will continue to the end. .
having been confident of this very thing, that He who did begin in you a good work, will perform it till a day of Jesus Christ Philippians 1:6,
That exclusive faith that come from hearing God rises above trusting in the ceremonial laws in respect to the work of man hands or what the eyes see.
Dead works are ceremonial laws as shadows having no redeeming power. Hopefully we will not be found with those that crucify Christ over and over every time they repent .
Hebrews 6 Young's Literal Translation (YLT) Wherefore, having left the word of the beginning of the Christ, unto the perfection we may advance, not again a foundation laying of reformation from dead works, and of faith on God, of the teaching of baptisms, of laying on also of hands, of rising again also of the dead, and of judgment age-during
The one thing we all need he provides. Recognition. The better than pride things that accompany salvation . He promises us He will not forget the love through the good works we offered towards His name..That can be refreshing in a time of need.
and we are persuaded, concerning you, beloved, the things that are better, and accompanying salvation, though even thus we speak, for God is not unrighteous to forget your work, and the labour of the love, that ye shewed to His name, having ministered to the saints and ministering;Hebrews 6:9-10
I can imagine two types of Jews on the Passover night in Egypt.
Some put their trust in the lamb blood, and just relax and enjoy the night, confident that it is sufficient.
Other Jews are more paranoid and try to help the blood with their works, praying fasting singing non stop to God.
In the end both houses first born are still saved because the blood at their doorpost is sufficient.
That is how I view this never ending argument about faith alone or faith and works for salvation. 🤗
Some put their trust in the lamb blood, and just relax and enjoy the night, confident that it is sufficient.
Other Jews are more paranoid and try to help the blood with their works, praying fasting singing non stop to God.
In the end both houses first born are still saved because the blood at their doorpost is sufficient.
That is how I view this never ending argument about faith alone or faith and works for salvation. 🤗
Faith is a work or called a labor of love . . it could never be alone.
John 4:48 Then said Jesus unto him, Except ye see signs and wonders, ye will not believe.
2 Corinthians 4:18 While we look not at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen: for the things which are seen are temporal; but the things which are not seen are eternal.
Part of the problem is many did put their trust in the "literal blood" rather that what is represented (pouring out of the unseen Spirit) as some sort of work righteousness. You could say as some kind of what some call "sign gift" Not new to the Pencostals of the new testament who practice what the call sign gift. used for self edification, self confirmation a signs and wonder gospel .In doing so make the spiritual understanding (gospel) of the parable without effect.
They Holy Spirit informed them when he sees the blood as to what it represents not when they see it. We walk by faith not after what the eyes see the temporal.
Twice in Exodus he emphasizes when he see the blood.
Exodus 12:13 And the blood shall be to you for a token upon the houses where ye are: and when I see the blood, I will pass over you, and the plague shall not be upon you to destroy you, when I smite the land of Egypt.
In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
Exodus 12:23 For the Lord will pass through to smite the Egyptians; and when he seeth the blood upon the lintel, and on the two side posts, the Lord will pass over the door, and will not suffer the destroyer to come in unto your houses to smite you.
John 4:48 Then said Jesus unto him, Except ye see signs and wonders, ye will not believe.
2 Corinthians 4:18 While we look not at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen: for the things which are seen are temporal; but the things which are not seen are eternal.
Part of the problem is many did put their trust in the "literal blood" rather that what is represented (pouring out of the unseen Spirit) as some sort of work righteousness. You could say as some kind of what some call "sign gift" Not new to the Pencostals of the new testament who practice what the call sign gift. used for self edification, self confirmation a signs and wonder gospel .In doing so make the spiritual understanding (gospel) of the parable without effect.
They Holy Spirit informed them when he sees the blood as to what it represents not when they see it. We walk by faith not after what the eyes see the temporal.
Twice in Exodus he emphasizes when he see the blood.
Exodus 12:13 And the blood shall be to you for a token upon the houses where ye are: and when I see the blood, I will pass over you, and the plague shall not be upon you to destroy you, when I smite the land of Egypt.
In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
Exodus 12:23 For the Lord will pass through to smite the Egyptians; and when he seeth the blood upon the lintel, and on the two side posts, the Lord will pass over the door, and will not suffer the destroyer to come in unto your houses to smite you.
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Hi there, I have read alot of your comments over the internet about people who dont believe in once saved always saved. You think they are false prophets, people who believe they "earn" there salvation by good works. Have you done enough study on the theology of Jacobus Arminius? No where has anyone stated they are saved by "good" works alone? So why do you continue to make accusations about peoples beliefs when you clearly dont have a clue about what they truly believe, because you only want to view everything from your own point of view. We believe we are saved by a COMPLETE FAITH, Just like Abraham, not the faith of demons- faith alone. The issue isnt "WORKS". Its your view of FAITH. You only think believing in a God will saved you and believing in his sacrifice will save you- You know the Jews and devil also believed Jesus died on the cross? Does they mean they were automatically saved because they believe or saw Jesus crificified?. God only chose you and a number of people as the "elect" for no apparent reason? Seems to me like you are similar to Jehovah witnesses with 144 000. You and your calvinist brothers and sisters are Gods chosen people. If he sacrifice was only for you, why did he bother dying?
So I will tell you now he died for the "Whole world" and also loved the "Whole World".
You judge people who dont follow once saved- always saved calling them false prophets yet you get your beliefs from a man called JOHN CALVIN, a so called Christian who thought he was on the road to heaven, while torturing an innocent person with different religious beliefs (burning them on green wood, so they had excruciating pain and slow death). Yes of Course no works needed for you or John Calvin. No Good works for John Calvin because God never see his evil behavior, because he had the imputed righteousness of God, he was a chosen "EVIL PERSON" By the God you follow. Poor Michael Servitus cruelly burnt alive by a wicked man who was apparently saved in your eyes because he is Gods chosen son, like you. So before you pass judgment look into your own belief system. If you agree with once saved always saved you agree with John Calvin's theology/doctrine.
So I will tell you now he died for the "Whole world" and also loved the "Whole World".
You judge people who dont follow once saved- always saved calling them false prophets yet you get your beliefs from a man called JOHN CALVIN, a so called Christian who thought he was on the road to heaven, while torturing an innocent person with different religious beliefs (burning them on green wood, so they had excruciating pain and slow death). Yes of Course no works needed for you or John Calvin. No Good works for John Calvin because God never see his evil behavior, because he had the imputed righteousness of God, he was a chosen "EVIL PERSON" By the God you follow. Poor Michael Servitus cruelly burnt alive by a wicked man who was apparently saved in your eyes because he is Gods chosen son, like you. So before you pass judgment look into your own belief system. If you agree with once saved always saved you agree with John Calvin's theology/doctrine.
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This is a centuries old argument. Neither Calvin nor Arminius are wholly correct. Both have had a significant amount of error introduced into their writings by those who are eager to quote them.
The bible is the word of God not the writings of theologians or early church fathers. Those who espouse that eternal life can be lost fail to understand the entire concept of eternal life as a gift of salvation. Grace negates any works or contributions of the soul that is saved. The work of Christ alone is sufficient and is imputed to us through grace. We know these things because God has given us His word to create the required faith or trust in the promise of God.
If Jesus is able to save us from our sins and He certainly is more than able then He is able to preserve us until we are presented faultless before the throne of God. Jesus will lose none of those who have trusted in Him to save them from their sins.
Those that do not understand this are not ones who should teach but give themselves to learning the truth of God.
The only question that really matters is are you saved and are you secure in Christ? Will you be in heaven or will you fall short? All men are already under condemnation and only by Christ through grace can we be saved.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
The bible is the word of God not the writings of theologians or early church fathers. Those who espouse that eternal life can be lost fail to understand the entire concept of eternal life as a gift of salvation. Grace negates any works or contributions of the soul that is saved. The work of Christ alone is sufficient and is imputed to us through grace. We know these things because God has given us His word to create the required faith or trust in the promise of God.
If Jesus is able to save us from our sins and He certainly is more than able then He is able to preserve us until we are presented faultless before the throne of God. Jesus will lose none of those who have trusted in Him to save them from their sins.
Those that do not understand this are not ones who should teach but give themselves to learning the truth of God.
The only question that really matters is are you saved and are you secure in Christ? Will you be in heaven or will you fall short? All men are already under condemnation and only by Christ through grace can we be saved.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
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Hi Roger, do you know that the grace of God actually trains us to renounce ungodliness and live an upright holy lifestyle. Also the bible says do not sin so grace may abound, how can we who have died to sin live in it anymore. Also that we shouldnt use Gods grace as a license for immorality. So God does have grace but that grace, doesn't turn a blind eye to sin, as people are claiming it too. And what scripture suggests that God views us as "clean" even if we practicing wickedness?. Where are you told your future sins are forgiven even before you have done them? Where is the scripture that has the words "FINISHED WORK" of Christ?. Where in the bible does it say we are justified by the term faith "ALONE". Not faith, but FAITH ALONE".
I read what's in the bible and DEMON faith- faith alone doesn't save according to the bible. Its Just believing a God exists.
Throughout the bible there are warnings about falling and away and departing from the faith. Some where saved and some weren't saved.
Thanks
I read what's in the bible and DEMON faith- faith alone doesn't save according to the bible. Its Just believing a God exists.
Throughout the bible there are warnings about falling and away and departing from the faith. Some where saved and some weren't saved.
Thanks
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Where does it say Grace negates any works or contributions in the bible? It actually states that "GRACE" trains us to renounce ungodliness
Does that mean renouncing ungodliness and living an upright holy lifestyle is considered a "work"? Because (renouncing) something means to stop doing it? Also "do not sin" so grace may abound "is another "Work"
Does that mean renouncing ungodliness and living an upright holy lifestyle is considered a "work"? Because (renouncing) something means to stop doing it? Also "do not sin" so grace may abound "is another "Work"
Ro 11:6 And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.
Ga 5:4 Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.
Nothing wrong with repenting from sin and endeavoring to live for Christ but none of that is for righteousness sake. We do not become any more righteous or any less righteous but are made the righteousness of Christ by grace.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
Ga 5:4 Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.
Nothing wrong with repenting from sin and endeavoring to live for Christ but none of that is for righteousness sake. We do not become any more righteous or any less righteous but are made the righteousness of Christ by grace.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
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