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I have no problem with the scripture but you lack an understanding of what the scripture is teaching. The Holy Spirit does not guide believers into the heresy that you espouse. You use scripture like a drunk uses a light pole. Not for light but in a feeble effort to keep you from falling on your face. All those at Pentecost who spoke with the cloven tongues as of fire upon them were already saved and baptized in the Holy Spirit. They were filled with the Holy Spirit to minister the word of God in the power of God proclaiming the message of the gospel that Messiah had come was slain and risen from the dead to redeem them from their sins. They proclaimed the part you always omit.
The tempter quoted scripture to Jesus in the desert. Jesus corrected his error because he quoted scripture without knowledge of the truth. The serpent quoted what God had said in the garden. The serpent used what God had said without knowledge of the truth and led Eve to sin against God.
Without the Holy Spirit to guide and direct one cannot arrive at the correct meaning and understanding of the scripture. In may ways this is what separates sheep from goats.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
The tempter quoted scripture to Jesus in the desert. Jesus corrected his error because he quoted scripture without knowledge of the truth. The serpent quoted what God had said in the garden. The serpent used what God had said without knowledge of the truth and led Eve to sin against God.
Without the Holy Spirit to guide and direct one cannot arrive at the correct meaning and understanding of the scripture. In may ways this is what separates sheep from goats.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
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Amen! The Bible call this wresting of scriptures. Perfect example are those who insist water baptism can save when in fact it cannot.
2 Pet. 3:16
King James Version
As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.
2 Pet. 3:16
King James Version
As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.
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Rom 6:2 Of course not! How can we who died as far as sin is concerned go on living in it?
Rom 6:3 Or don't you know that all of us who were baptized into union with the Messiah Jesus were baptized into his death?
Rom 6:4 Therefore, through baptism we were buried with him into his death so that, just as the Messiah was raised from the dead by the Father's glory, we too may live an entirely new life.
Rom 6:5 For if we have become united with him in a death like his, we will certainly also be united with him in a resurrection like his.
Rom 6:6 We know that our old natures were crucified with him so that our sin-laden bodies might be rendered powerless and we might no longer be slaves to sin.
Rom 6:7 For the person who has died has been freed from sin.
Rom 6:8 Now if we have died with the Messiah, we believe that we will also live with him,
Rom 6:9 for we know that the Messiah, who was raised from the dead, will never die again; death no longer has mastery over him.
Rom 6:10 For when he died, he died once and for all as far as sin is concerned. But now that he is alive, he lives for God.
Rom 6:11 In the same way, you too must continually consider yourselves dead as far as sin is concerned, but living for God through the Messiah Jesus.
I think I might understand what you are saying. It’s true that the blood of Jesus, atonement for our sin yet not just ours but the sin of all the world, was shed, the scripture says, and has the action of crucifying our sin nature, and rising in resurrection life. This occurs at our new birth.
But, EG, the scripture doesn’t call this a baptism. But, in truth....we definitely are whelmed by Jesus. This occurs before we are water baptized.
IMO, water baptism is what we can look back to when we are assaulted by doubt, for it does come to try our faith. So it’s important to understand what has happened to us.
This may be the reason why the church of my childhood teaches blood baptism. Am I right though about what you are teaching here, or wrong?
I still don’t agree.
For this reason...
This is from bible search.com. I agree with this part, but not the whole article.
As Paul was praying in Damascus, a disciple came and told him what he must do to be saved.
Acts 22:16 ‘And now why do you delay? Arise, and be baptized, and wash away your sins, calling on His name.’
What washed away his sins? Certainly, it was the blood of Jesus! But, without Paul’s responding by faith in being baptized, he would not have received the benefits of His blood. Rev. 1:5, Col. 2:11-14.
After we become Christians, the blood of Jesus continues to cleanse us as we continue to respond in obedient faith as God directs.
1 John 1:7 but if we walk in the light as He Himself is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus His Son cleanses us from all sin.
1 John 1:8 If we say that we have no sin, we are deceiving ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
1 John 1:9 If we confess our sins, He is faithful and righteous to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
I don’t agree with the part that says baptism is what gives us the benefits of His blood washing us. But, Paul is a Jew and some baptize daily.
I don’t know if this is true, but I’ve read that Jesus wasn’t just from Nazareth, that He was called a Nazarene, but was of the sect, Nazarenes. And was their way to be “washed” daily before the day began.
Not teaching this. I don’t know, but it would be beneficial for our unity to know. IMO.
Rom 6:3 Or don't you know that all of us who were baptized into union with the Messiah Jesus were baptized into his death?
Rom 6:4 Therefore, through baptism we were buried with him into his death so that, just as the Messiah was raised from the dead by the Father's glory, we too may live an entirely new life.
Rom 6:5 For if we have become united with him in a death like his, we will certainly also be united with him in a resurrection like his.
Rom 6:6 We know that our old natures were crucified with him so that our sin-laden bodies might be rendered powerless and we might no longer be slaves to sin.
Rom 6:7 For the person who has died has been freed from sin.
Rom 6:8 Now if we have died with the Messiah, we believe that we will also live with him,
Rom 6:9 for we know that the Messiah, who was raised from the dead, will never die again; death no longer has mastery over him.
Rom 6:10 For when he died, he died once and for all as far as sin is concerned. But now that he is alive, he lives for God.
Rom 6:11 In the same way, you too must continually consider yourselves dead as far as sin is concerned, but living for God through the Messiah Jesus.
I think I might understand what you are saying. It’s true that the blood of Jesus, atonement for our sin yet not just ours but the sin of all the world, was shed, the scripture says, and has the action of crucifying our sin nature, and rising in resurrection life. This occurs at our new birth.
But, EG, the scripture doesn’t call this a baptism. But, in truth....we definitely are whelmed by Jesus. This occurs before we are water baptized.
IMO, water baptism is what we can look back to when we are assaulted by doubt, for it does come to try our faith. So it’s important to understand what has happened to us.
This may be the reason why the church of my childhood teaches blood baptism. Am I right though about what you are teaching here, or wrong?
I still don’t agree.
For this reason...
This is from bible search.com. I agree with this part, but not the whole article.
As Paul was praying in Damascus, a disciple came and told him what he must do to be saved.
Acts 22:16 ‘And now why do you delay? Arise, and be baptized, and wash away your sins, calling on His name.’
What washed away his sins? Certainly, it was the blood of Jesus! But, without Paul’s responding by faith in being baptized, he would not have received the benefits of His blood. Rev. 1:5, Col. 2:11-14.
After we become Christians, the blood of Jesus continues to cleanse us as we continue to respond in obedient faith as God directs.
1 John 1:7 but if we walk in the light as He Himself is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus His Son cleanses us from all sin.
1 John 1:8 If we say that we have no sin, we are deceiving ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
1 John 1:9 If we confess our sins, He is faithful and righteous to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
I don’t agree with the part that says baptism is what gives us the benefits of His blood washing us. But, Paul is a Jew and some baptize daily.
I don’t know if this is true, but I’ve read that Jesus wasn’t just from Nazareth, that He was called a Nazarene, but was of the sect, Nazarenes. And was their way to be “washed” daily before the day began.
Not teaching this. I don’t know, but it would be beneficial for our unity to know. IMO.
Acts 10
44 While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word.
45 And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost.
46 For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter,
47 Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?
Art Montgomery ,when ministering to muslims ,gets them baptised in the Holy Spirit first,because they are too resistant of anything concerning Jesus.
(The Holy Spirit points men to Jesus)
44 While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word.
45 And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost.
46 For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter,
47 Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?
Art Montgomery ,when ministering to muslims ,gets them baptised in the Holy Spirit first,because they are too resistant of anything concerning Jesus.
(The Holy Spirit points men to Jesus)
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There is still two workings of Holy Spirit. The new birth. And Holy Spirit baptism. They are not the same.
How will you know? When you speak, it is of Holy Spirit and in power that you know is not of self. You have a new heart, a lifed spirit, and you speak from Spirit, a supernatural action. And your heart swells with love for God and others. You can be no other way when in Holy Spirit.
It’s not spooky but is natural now.
I don’t think I can say anything new that I haven’t already said here.
How will you know? When you speak, it is of Holy Spirit and in power that you know is not of self. You have a new heart, a lifed spirit, and you speak from Spirit, a supernatural action. And your heart swells with love for God and others. You can be no other way when in Holy Spirit.
It’s not spooky but is natural now.
I don’t think I can say anything new that I haven’t already said here.
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Wrong. The baptism of the Holy Spirit is the conversion experience. This is the biblical experience that all believers have in common. There is a filling of the Holy Spirit that was evidenced at Pentecost. Many believers have this experience without tongues as many claim today. Daily filling of the Holy Spirit to walk in paths of righteousness for the glory of God.
Too much fantasy in the modern church to be of any real value to God.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
Too much fantasy in the modern church to be of any real value to God.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
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""...they were all saved first not all had hands laid on them either Peter stated that in Acts when he said in Acts 10: 44""
Vs 45;And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost.
46 For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God
The church was Jewish.
It says the Jews were surprised. The Jews were the believers. The gentiles outsiders (unclean)
That vs 45 is the gentiles coming in through the Holy Spirit.
That is why peter asked if they might be baptised. (Clearly new converts)
Vs 45;And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost.
46 For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God
The church was Jewish.
It says the Jews were surprised. The Jews were the believers. The gentiles outsiders (unclean)
That vs 45 is the gentiles coming in through the Holy Spirit.
That is why peter asked if they might be baptised. (Clearly new converts)
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I am sure you have a testimony.
That testimony will surely upset someones doctrine.
Who cares?
Same goes for others.
You are judging holy ground when you think in your mind there is no place of torment that someone could die,and come back to life with a story.
God is bigger than those perrameters you theorized on.
That testimony will surely upset someones doctrine.
Who cares?
Same goes for others.
You are judging holy ground when you think in your mind there is no place of torment that someone could die,and come back to life with a story.
God is bigger than those perrameters you theorized on.
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Baptism of the Holy Spirit is a one-time experience at the time of conversion. The Spirit indwells the believer and makes him part of God's family whereas the "filling" is repeatable work of the Holy Spirit after conversion.
Ephesians 5:18 King James Version (KJV)
18 And be not drunk with wine, wherein is excess; but be filled with the Spirit;
Ephesians 5:18 King James Version (KJV)
18 And be not drunk with wine, wherein is excess; but be filled with the Spirit;
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God will separate the tares from the wheat. If you think that water baptism saves and from your post that is what you are teaching then you have much to be concerned about. Your soteriology is faulty and all your teaching is unsound. Perhaps that explains why you rely upon feelings and contest the word of God.
Eph 2:5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved
For the cause of Christ
Roger
Eph 2:5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved
For the cause of Christ
Roger
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