Did Jesus ever tell us that we no longer need to keep the law of Moses?

[PS]

Yes they are

1) Because of not sinning is required. Thats takes alot of work.

2) We do not sin because we are seeking to serve others, which takes no work. And stop trying to serve self.

3) Again, Scripture calls trying to follow the law a burden no man can handle.

4) Your made righteous (perfect) by Christ through imputation. Not because your righteous (perfect) yourself.

You can try to follow God all day long, you will STILL not meet his standard.

Human response!
1) Stealing, lying, fornicating etc. Do not do it. No work required.
2) Correct. Serving others is not a sin.
3) Then do not follow the law. No work required.
4) God makes us righteous, no work required by us.

 

[Grandpa]

Human response!
1) Stealing, lying, fornicating etc. Do not do it. No work required.
2) Correct. Serving others is not a sin.
3) Then do not follow the law. No work required.
4) God makes us righteous, no work required by us.

That's kind of oversimplified.

The lust of the eyes, the lust of the flesh and the pride of life still draw you towards some action whether it is conscious or not. It would be nice to just turn it off. But its not a light switch. It is what we were born with. So it is something we constantly have to fight with because it is at odds with our Lord Jesus Christ.

 

[DeighAnn]

4I rejoiced greatly that I found of thy children walking in truth, as we have received a commandment from the Father. 5And now I beseech thee, lady, not as though I wrote a new commandment unto thee, but that which we had from the beginning, that we love one another. 6And this is love, that we walk after his commandments. This is the commandment, That, as ye have heard from the beginning, ye should walk in it.

I noticed the condescending language later in the article and I wished I could have retracted that one. I don't necessarily agree with this definition, BUT I do think there is a confusion coming from somewhere that keeps us all at odds never seeming to arrive at a general consensus "Believe" seems to be a pivotal word that I am always prompted to understand more fully.

I know who the "author of confusion" is and he is at work here.

I often consider the possibility that the Grace vs Law debate is a debate intended on discovering what we "want to believe".

What I mean is that if there is written support for either position, which one will we choose? Perhaps this is a means to discover who each of us really is, by offering us either choice, hence dividing us into two camps for God's purposes.

That said, there may be no way to reconcile the two camps because the two camps serve a higher purpose. No doubt there are many scriptural references to the separation of wheat and tares, sheep and goats. God is an unmixed God. He is always separating things according to type, and commanding the same.

Like of Israel or of Gentile? One people cant leave it out and one cant bring it in. A concern for me is when the books are opened, all unrepented sin is still written. If you believe there is no law, you can no longer believe in sin, so you never repent, therefore never being washed clean, so God never hears you, which is worse than being "under the law" because at least they got to be washed clean?? IDK how often they sacrificed, once a year?? but I know God said it had to be continual to cover the sin, and even that wasn't gonna get it done.

 

[DeighAnn]

The law is what leads us to Christ. So when there are people who think they are Christians and they think they are following the law they are inadvertently drawing people to Christ as well. As long as these people look into the law for themselves and find out there is much more to it than what they are being taught.

In that way, I am glad that there are legalists and judaizers and arminians. They are good for people who aren't quite Christians to start on the road towards Christ.

The only sad thing is that once that person comes to Christ they see they have to put those "childish" things away. They were good for a purpose but once that purpose is served they are pretty much useless. There is a MUCH better way than the one the legalists, judaizers and arminians follow. I knew a lot of these people when I was first coming to Christ and I truly was grateful for them. They are serving the Lords purpose for sure.

It is nice to know there are Christians out there that have actually come to Christ and know what Christianity ACTUALLY is so once you do come to Christ you aren't the only one out there. I was worried about that at first because when you are surrounded by legalists and judaizers and arminians it doesn't seem like there is any understanding of who the Lord is and what it is that He Does.

The law is what leads us to Christ - Go teach baptize. Be a shame to get rid of it.

 

[DeighAnn]

Human response!
1) Stealing, lying, fornicating etc. Do not do it. No work required.
2) Correct. Serving others is not a sin.
3) Then do not follow the law. No work required.
4) God makes us righteous, no work required by us.

James 2:17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone. What is the problem with Works? Faith is a gift from God. Salvation is a gift from God.

 

[PS]

James 2:17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone. What is the problem with Works? Faith is a gift from God. Salvation is a gift from God.

No problem with works at all provided they bring glory to God.

 

[NayborBear]

Those are contradicting terms

If we are righteous by what we do it is not by grace

Grace means we are righteous by what someone else did

Yer still not getting it EG.

How many times in the O.T. did it mention that such and such a king did that which was evil in God's eyes!

What such and such a king did MUST have been, or SEEMED good in MANS' eyes? No? During a king's reign, striving to "keep peace", in the face of a constant infiltration of "non-Israelites", bombarding the "social fabric" of Israel's "society!" In the compromising of Mosaic/God's law? As long as it maintains "peace?" (piece in the eyes of the infiltrators!) GO FOR IT! (....and all the PEOPLE say?....Amen! )

One may do what looks, or appears good to many men/women, and meet with approval!

But, for other's? They don't really care if man approves of one's actions/efforts, or not! As long as it is good in God's eyes!

DAMN the "torpeedees", Eg! FULL SPEED AHEAD!

 

[eternally-gratefull]

James 2:17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone. What is the problem with Works? Faith is a gift from God. Salvation is a gift from God.

The problem comes when you make those works a REQUIRMENT of getting or maintaining salvation.

Romans 11:6
And if by grace, then it is no longer of works; otherwise grace is no longer grace. But if it is of works, it is no longer grace; otherwise work is no longer work

2 Timothy 1:9
who has saved us and called us with a holy calling, not according to our works, but according to His own purpose and grace which was given to us in Christ Jesus before time began,

Titus 3:5
not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to His mercy He saved us, through the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Spirit,

The problem is not works, the problem is trying to mix grace plus works..

 

[PS]

That's kind of oversimplified.

The lust of the eyes, the lust of the flesh and the pride of life still draw you towards some action whether it is conscious or not. It would be nice to just turn it off. But its not a light switch. It is what we were born with. So it is something we constantly have to fight with because it is at odds with our Lord Jesus Christ.

Then I suggest they are still living a worldly life and have not got their eyes fully fixed on the Lord

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Yer still not getting it EG.

How many times in the O.T. did it mention that such and such a king did that which was evil in God's eyes!

What such and such a king did MUST have been, or SEEMED good in MANS' eyes? No? During a king's reign, striving to "keep peace", in the face of a constant infiltration of "non-Israelites", bombarding the "social fabric" of Israel's "society!" In the compromising of Mosaic/God's law? As long as it maintains "peace?" (piece in the eyes of the infiltrators!) GO FOR IT! (....and all the PEOPLE say?....Amen! )

One may do what looks, or appears good to many men/women, and meet with approval!

But, for other's? They don't really care if man approves of one's actions/efforts, or not! As long as it is good in God's eyes!

DAMN the "torpeedees", Eg! FULL SPEED AHEAD!

What is the purpose of mosaic law?

Paul gave us this answer in galations 3. Why do you want to fight it? Did paul lie?

of course people in the OT compromised the law. Everyone did, and even if they did not, they still could not keep it, they were still cursed according to the law. This is why sacrifice and burnt offering was required to continue,

 

[NayborBear]

Typical legalistic mumbo jumbo. Trying to pit belief and works.

Pistuo is a faith that is based on assurance. A confidence that the one you have faith in WILL do what you are trusting him to do

πίστις, ἡ, gen. εως: dat. πίστει, Ion. πίστῑ: Ion. nom. and acc. pl. πίστῑς; dat. πίστισι: (πείθομαι):—trust in others, faith, Lat. fides, fiducia, Hes., Theogn., Att.; c. gen. pers. faith or belief in one, Eur.:—generally, persuasion of a thing, confidence, assurance, Pind., Att.
2. good faith, trustworthiness, faithfulness, honesty, Lat. fides, Theogn., Hdt., Att.
3. in a commercial sense, credit, trust, πίστις τοσούτων χρημάτων ἐστί μοι παρά τινι I have credit for so much money with him, Dem.; εἰς πίστιν διδόναι τί τινι Id.
4. in Theol. faith, belief, as opp. to sight and knowledge, N.T.
II. that which gives confidence: hence,
1. an assurance, pledge of good faith, warrant, guarantee, Soph., Eur.; πίστιν καὶ ὅρκια ποιεῖσθαι to make a treaty by exchange of assurances and oaths, Hdt.; οὔτε π. οὔθʼ ὅρκος μένει Ar.; πίστιν διδόναι to give assurances, Hdt.; διδόναι καὶ λαμβάνειν to interchange them, Xen.:—of an oath, θεῶν πίστεις ὀμνύναι Thuc.; πίστιν ἐπιτιθέναι or προστιθέναι τινί Dem.:—φόβων π. an assurance against fears, Eur.
2. a means of persuasion, an argument, proof, such as used by orators,


As you can see, Works are not even part of the interpretation of faith Faith is a confidence or a trust given by the assurance of gods promises. Based. On his work As the author of hebrews states Faith is the evidence of things hope for. The Assuranc of things not seen

Works can be seen, There is no faiht in works, because works can be seen.

Now. As the author of hebrews states TRUE faith will PRODUCE works. But works have absolutely nothing to do with faith proper. Please find the truth, and do not listen to these peopel who are tryign to give you a faith whcih is based on personal conduct not based on the promises of God.

Wow! Such "blinders" you wear! Seeing only that which you see as "faith produced works", as being not works! Yet, condemning everyone else's "works produced by faith" as "works only", or "works FOR Salvation!"

Sad, Sad, Sad!

May God judge you much less harshly, then you "judge" others, who do differently then you do!

 

[NayborBear]

What is the purpose of mosaic law?

Paul gave us this answer in galations 3. Why do you want to fight it? Did paul lie?

of course people in the OT compromised the law. Everyone did, and even if they did not, they still could not keep it, they were still cursed according to the law. This is why sacrifice and burnt offering was required to continue,

What yer not seeing, is the "drifting away", aka "apostasy", from the Mosiac law! And God? Jehovah, in the O.T. always "relenting" from His cursing's, and pleading again with His people, to come back to Him! Yes! He punished 'em, with pagues, and droughts, etc. Even to the point of going into captivity! And, after hearing the cries and lamentings? Relenting!
That is, until they drifted TOO FAR! After which Jehovah divorced them, and stated: "You are no longer "MY people!"

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Wow! Such "blinders" you wear! Seeing only that which you see as "faith produced works", as being not works! Yet, condemning everyone else's "works produced by faith" as "works only", or "works FOR Salvation!"

Sad, Sad, Sad!

May God judge you much less harshly, then you "judge" others, who do differently then you do!

Dude, please stop!

Can you for once get what I believe right? Or will you continue to post things I never said, never claimed, or even comes close to what I believe.

I believe WORKS follow salvation,, ie works are the end result. A perosn with true faith will work.

I am AGAINST workers for salvation, claiming salvation is dependent or must be maintained by works.

Now can you please file this in your file cabinet so you can stop bearing false witness against me?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

What yer not seeing, is the "drifting away", aka "apostasy", from the Mosiac law! And God? Jehovah, in the O.T. always "relenting" from His cursing's, and pleading again with His people, to come back to Him! Yes! He punished 'em, with pagues, and droughts, etc. Even to the point of going into captivity! And, after hearing the cries and lamentings? Relenting!
That is, until they drifted TOO FAR! After which Jehovah divorced them, and stated: "You are no longer "MY people!"

The mosaic law states EVERYONE WHO DOES NO TO OBEY EVERY WORD IS UNDER A CURSE.

Who besides christ fulfilled this requirment of the law? Can you name one person? Have you?

 

[PS]

That's kind of oversimplified.

The lust of the eyes, the lust of the flesh and the pride of life still draw you towards some action whether it is conscious or not. It would be nice to just turn it off. But its not a light switch. It is what we were born with. So it is something we constantly have to fight with because it is at odds with our Lord Jesus Christ.

Refraining from wickedness is not works.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Refraining from wickedness is not works.

It is if your doing it to maintain your salvation. Your trying to earn a gift by your works.

 

[NayborBear]

Dude, please stop!

Can you for once get what I believe right? Or will you continue to post things I never said, never claimed, or even comes close to what I believe.

I believe WORKS follow salvation,, ie works are the end result. A perosn with true faith will work.

I am AGAINST workers for salvation, claiming salvation is dependent or must be maintained by works.

Now can you please file this in your file cabinet so you can stop bearing false witness against me?

I can't stop, EG!
Because, from all the posts I read from you? I haven't ascertained what exactly it is you do believe! Nor, do I think you even know what you believe! And, not even certain that you believe what you believe.

What I do see, is an "agitator and insitgator", in a "shifting sands" on stony ground, constantly stating some efforts in only coming partially TO Christ! And, any further "growings" TOWARDS the Father? As being "strictly verboten", and thus not necessary! Nor as required as things the Father, and Christ sees as "prerequisites" for ones' "being chosen", into the Holy Priesthood!
I am under the impression that you, and many like yourself, see the Order of Melchizedek, as "an order of ONE!" That being Christ ALONE! You couldn't be more wrong!
Psalm 45
7 Thou lovest righteousness, and hatest wickedness: therefore God, thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.

And, like I have stated before, at least several times? For you? If that's alright with you? It doesn't mean you are not saved!
But please stop in the condemnation of other's who see more, and want to see more!

You are not denying Christ, AT ALL!
You are however, denying the Holy Priesthood, from where Christ came! And condemning all who strive in going the "extra miles" it takes in achieving it!

Ya see, EG? I not only view Christ as Lord and Savior. The forgiver of the "sins of the world!"
I also, as I keep growing (in the Shepherds "preparing a table before me" In the PRESCENCE of mine enemy), as a BROTHER! Not merely, "a brother/sister in Christ", as to other believers. But, as a fellow Priest of the MOST HIGH GOD!
The "best" way to view this? The "other son" in the parable of the prodigal son (who got over his anger issues). Or? Those "workers in the fields", at the end of the days labors. That felt they were "entitled" to an higher wage, as they had been working the fields "longer!"

Psalm 110
The Lord said unto my Lord, Sit thou at my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool.

We're ALL "working" for and TOWARDS that GREAT Day!

All I'm asking from you, is that you stop limiting, God's eyes, and plan/s of salvation, to that which only you can see, or understand.

When one limits one's knowledge of God, to that which is only in the written text?
One is missing the whole point of the why the Bible had to be in a "written venue" to begin with!
It's more like God is saying a "Hello", in the written text!
(because)
There's MORE to God, then between the covers of the Bible!

 

[PS]

It is if your doing it to maintain your salvation. Your trying to earn a gift by your works.

You are talking about good works. They do not save. I was talking about wickedness, which is a passport to hell.

Do you have difficulty understanding the various concepts?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I can't stop, EG!

Thats your problem.

You think you have all the answers, but even after you have been shown, You still do not understand what others are saying.

Because, from all the posts I read from you? I haven't ascertained what exactly it is you do believe! Nor, do I think you even know what you believe! And, not even certain that you believe what you believe.

So lets see.

I say all people who have faith, WILL have works. And these are good works. And a glory to God

People who claim works are required to maintain salvation. Those works are self righteous works, and not of god.

That is hard for you to understand?

Come now. Not even I think you are that bad off that you can not understand these things.

What I do see, is an "agitator and insitgator", !

So since you can not understand the above, I am an agitator?

Dude you have serious issues. You can not understand what I am saying because you know if you do, you will have to honestly declair I am right. But you can not do that. Because YOU are one who believe works are REQUIRED to maintain salvation. Not a RESULT of salvation.

When your ready to have a normal conversation and stop this stuff come talk to me, I would love to converse with you. Until then, You are the agitoator. And slanderer. [/quote]

 

[eternally-gratefull]

You are talking about good works. They do not save. I was talking about wickedness, which is a passport to hell.

Do you have difficulty understanding the various concepts?

No.

I am talking about the work to stop wickedness (yur trying to change the meaning of works)

If your stoping these evil works to be saved, your working to earn salvation.

You can not stop your sin enough to earn or maintain salvation, when only 1 sin will cause you be held guilty of the law (james)