God did it for all those who believe in Him.and how are we righteous
By the law Or by faith in god through his imputes righteousness (the blood on the mercy seat)?
Added: By God, I mean the Redeemer. The Pharisees did not believe in the Redeemer.
God did it for all those who believe in Him.and how are we righteous
By the law Or by faith in god through his imputes righteousness (the blood on the mercy seat)?
So we are not righteous because we obey the law but because god saved us?God did it for all those who believe in Him.
Added: By God, I mean the Redeemer. The Pharisees did not believe in the Redeemer.
We are righteous, not because we follow the Law of Moses which is insufficient, but because we follow the Good Shepherd who will lead us in paths of righteousness. (23 Psalm)So we are not righteous because we obey the law but because god saved us?
Right, Jesus says buy a sword but he doesn't say use it every chance you getOK. But you do know know that Jesus was very unhappy when Peter cut off the centurians ear. He was a pacifist and told us to turn the other cheek and not even to call someone a fool. Jesus had a very good reason for wanting to be associated with a sword and it had to do with the fulfilment of prophesy. The verse even tells of the OT prophesy.
And yes, Jesus does want us to make disciples and baptize people.
Yes, I think we do "spiritually" what was required "physically", that how the spirit of it is followed now.I think it is about
So if we do "spiritually" what was required "physically" is that how the spirit of it is followed now? Do we still have to recompense, what is it, something like 5 times the value of stuff stolen from us to be forgiven? Or is that just to ask? I sure hope so. I can't see there being a "spiritual" way out of that one. And immediately being found guilty of murder or rape, executed in public. That has to be physical too.
We are righteous, not because we follow the Law of Moses which is insufficient, but because we follow the Good Shepherd who will lead us in paths of righteousness. (23 Psalm)
Added: Yes, because we are saved by the grace of God.
Typical legalistic mumbo jumbo. Trying to pit belief and works.This seems to me to be in line with the question of this thread. Has anyone ever looked into the root meaning of the Greek word pisteuo? This is the word the KJV translators translated to "beleive", but the Greek scholars, esp the ancient Greek scholars say it s true meaning is "OBEY" Wouldn't this change everything!?
Here's an article with the link:
To Believe means to Obey John 3:16
Posted on March 9, 2013 by Mishayah 96 comments
An excerpt from http://www.jesuswordsonly.com/images/stories/Salvation/John 3 16.pdf
John 3:16:Obeying Unto Christ Should Save?
Introduction
When the English translations of the Greek New Tes- tament were made in the 1526-1611 period, the “difficult Greek in which the New Testament is written…still held mys- teries for” English scholars. (Nicolson: 224.) One of those mysteries was the Greek word pisteuo in John 3:16. In over 200 instances of pisteuo in the New Testament, not once did the King James Bible render it as obey. (See Strong’s Concor- dance.) However, scholars now realize obey was a common meaning of pisteuo in ancient Greek. Obey certainly was the meaning of pisteuo in John 3:36 (see page 448). Yet, this obe- dience salvation formula is identically repeated in John 3:16.
Besides John 3:36 helping, one can more easily accept pisteou means obeys in John 3:16 when one looks at Apostle John’s many quotes of Jesus about obedience. Jesus in John 8:51 says “whoever keeps on obeying (tereo) My Teaching
should never ever die.”1 In John 15:1-10, Jesus says a “branch in me” that does not “bear fruit” is “taken away,”
“cut off from the vine,” thrown “outside and burned.” 2 John likewise quoted Jesus saying in total accord:
Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, And shall come forth; they that have done good [things], unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil [things], unto the resurrection of damnation. (John 5:28-29 KJV).
For the rest of this fine article click the link at the top…
Suffice to say that the Paulinists love to quote John 3:16 in order support the faith only doctrine of Paul using Jn 3:16 as their proof text that Yahshua taught the same as Paul, which is ludicrous at best.
‘…that whosever obeys Him should not perish, but have everlasting life.’
In this rendering of John 3:16 it is more than apparent that the salvation that Yahshua taught is completely predicated upon obedience to His teachings. Something that Paul says in 2 Cor 5:16 is also now null and void.
2 Cor 5:16 is easily swallowed by those born of Paul seeing as how Paul claims to be their father thru his spurious and apostate gospel.
However for those who are actually born from above via the Word of Truth that is sown in them this defining of the original Greek word ‘Pisteuo’ meaning ‘to obey’ as opposed to the passive ‘believe’ or faith only’ is simply verification of what they already knew instinctively.
This is a bit off topic, but folks the lines are being drawn even as it was in the days of Elijah when the prophets of Baal came out to contest Elijah. What did Elijah say? ‘How long halt ye between two opinions, if YHVH be God then serve Him, if Baal then serve him!
As it was then, so it is now. Nobody knows the numbers of this very small remnant that have come out of Pauline anti-christ, but again suffice to say maybe a half a million or more as opposed to nearly 800,000,000 million that follow Paul. In rounded off numbers that is about 0.000625 percent of the whole. Count yourself exceedingly blessed if you are one of this infinitesimal remnant who Obey the Commandments of God and have the testimony of Yahshua the Messiah.
Truly Yahshua said ‘will the Son of Man find faith when comes?’
https://exodus2thekingdom.wordpress.com/2013/03/09/to-believe-means-to-obey-john-316/
For years now the Holy Spirit has prompted me to dig deeper into this word and it is time to bring it into the open.
Jesus was a witness in his neighbourhood, and despite everything he never told us, or anyone to use a sword. People are putting words into his mouth he never said.Right, Jesus says buy a sword but he doesn't say use it every chance you get
Similarly when he said go into all the world the different disciples traveled different amounts. And today many people understand that to mean be a witness for Christ in your neighborhood.
No contradiction at all. We do not, neither can we, physically follow Jesus, we follow Him by NOT sinning. (No works implied.)Those are contradicting terms
If we are righteous by what we do it is not by grace
Grace means we are righteous by what someone else did
You don't muzzle an ox because that is his pay. You work you get paid. You don't treat one of Gods animals any different. But I am missing the connection.Yes, I think we do "spiritually" what was required "physically", that how the spirit of it is followed now.
Like this!
1 Corinthians 9: 9. For it is written in the law of Moses, "You shall not muzzle an ox while it treads out the grain." Is it for the oxen that God cares, 10. or does he say it assuredly for our sake? Yes, it was written for our sake, because he who plows ought to plow in hope, and he who threshes in hope should partake of his hope.
Yes. The except you shared is way off base. Pisteuo means trust or something to that affect not obey.This seems to me to be in line with the question of this thread. Has anyone ever looked into the root meaning of the Greek word pisteuo?
.
Yes. The except you shared is way off base. Pisteuo means trust or something to that affect not obey.
And sadly the author speaks poorly of Paul. As if Paul message was different than Christ's. Paul spoke through Christ how could his message be different.
The following is from the BDAG Lexicon. It is the best work out there. It lists in it's findings many of the places the Greek word Pisteuo was found and how it was used in ancient literature in and outside of the Bible. It will be a hard read but concentrate on the stuff you do understand and you will see that the findings in ancient literature do not add to what the article puts forth.
πιστεύω (trag.+) impf. ἐπίστευον; 1 aor. ἐπίστευσα; pf. πεπίστευκα; plpf. πεπιστεύκειν Ac 14:23 (on the omission of the augment s. B-D-F §66, 1; Mlt-H. 190). Pass.: fut. 3 pl. πιστευθήσονται Gen 42, 20; 1 aor. ἐπιστεύθην; pf. πεπίστευμαι (the word does not occur in Phlm, 2 Pt, 2 and 3J, Rv, MPol, or D. But it is a special favorite of J and 1J, where it is found 96 times and 9 times respectively; πίστις is not found in the gospel at all, and occurs in 1J only once, 5:4. Our lit. uses it quite predominantly in a transcendent sense, or at least w. transcendent coloring).
to consider someth. to be true and therefore worthy of one’s trust, believe
believe (in) someth., be convinced of someth., w. that which one believes (in) indicated
α. by acc. of thing (Soph., Oed. Rex 646 τάδε; Aristot., Analyt. Pr. 2, 23, 68b, 13 ἅπαντα; PSI 494, 14 μηθέν; UPZ 70, 29 [152/151 B.C.] π. τὰ ἐνύπνια; ApcEsdr 7:12 p. 32, 26 τὸ βιβλίον τοῦτο) ἡ ἀγάπη πάντα πιστεύει 1 Cor 13:7. πεπιστεύκαμεν τὴν ἀγάπην we believe in the love 1J 4:16. πιστεύεις τοῦτο; J 11:26b. Cp. Ac 13:41 (Hab 1:5). Pass. ἐπιστεύθη τὸ μαρτύριον ἡμῶν our testimony was believed 2 Th 1:10b (cp. Aristot., EN 10, 2 p. 1172b, 15 ἐπιστεύοντο οἱ λόγοι; Gen 42:20).
β. by means of a ὅτι-clause believe that (Plut., Mor. 210d; Aelian, VH 1, 16 p. 8, 9; Herm. Wr. 4, 4: Porphyr., Ad Marcellam 24; PLond III, 897, 12 p. 207 [I A.D.]; Tob 10:8 S; Job 9:16; 15:31; 39:12; La 4:12; 4 Macc 7:19; TestAbr A 18 p. 100, 18 [Stone p. 48]; ParJer 6:7; Just., A I, 18, 2 al.; Orig., C. Cels. 4, 89, 16) μακαρία ἡ πιστεύσασα ὅτι ἔσται τελείωσις Lk 1:45 (ὅτι here may=for: s. ὅτι 4b).—Mk 11:23; cp. vs. 24; J 8:24 (ὅτι ἐγώ εἰμι as Is 43:10); 11:27, 42; 13:19; 14:10; 16:27, 30; 17:8, 21; 20:31a; Ac 9:26; Ro 6:8; 10:9; 1 Th 4:14; Hb 11:6; Js 2:19a; 1J 5:1, 5; Hv 3, 8, 4; 4, 2, 4; m 1:1; 6, 2, 10b; s 2:5.—[ὅτι εἷς θεός] καὶ εἷς χριστός AcPl Ha 1, 17; AcPlCor 1:8. π. περί τινος ὅτι believe concerning someone that J 9:18 (M. Ant. 1, 15, 5 πιστεύειν περὶ ὧν λέγοι ὅτι οὕτως φρονεῖ=believe concerning whatever he might say, that it was what he actually thought; Just., D. 10, 1 π. ἡμῶν• ὅτι ἐσθίομεν ἀνθρώπους.—π. περί τινος as Plut., Lyc. 19, 4; Jos., Ant. 14, 267).
γ. by the acc. and inf. (pres. Pla., Gorg. 524a; PTebt 314, 3 [II A.D.]; 4 Macc 5:25; Jos., C. Ap. 2, 160; Just., A I, 8, 2 al.; Ath. 20, 3) πιστεύω τὸν υἱὸν τοῦ θεοῦ εἶναι τὸν Ἰησοῦν Ac 8:37b.—GMary 463, 8.—IRo 10:2.—By the inf. (Thu 2, 22, 1; Job 15:22; AscIs 2:10 εἰς οὐρανὸν ἀναβῆναι) πιστεύομεν σωθῆναι Ac 15:11 (difft. JNolland, NTS 27, ’80, 112f [inf. of result: ‘we believe (in order) to be saved’]).—By the acc. and ptc. ἐν σαρκὶ αὐτὸν πιστεύω ὄντα I believe that he was in the flesh ISm 3:1.
Yes they areNo contradiction at all. We do not, neither can we, physically follow Jesus, we follow Him by NOT sinning. (No works implied.)
I noticed the condescending language later in the article and I wished I could have retracted that one. I don't necessarily agree with this definition, BUT I do think there is a confusion coming from somewhere that keeps us all at odds never seeming to arrive at a general consensus "Believe" seems to be a pivotal word that I am always prompted to understand more fully.
I know who the "author of confusion" is and he is at work here.
I often consider the possibility that the Grace vs Law debate is a debate intended on discovering what we "want to believe".
What I mean is that if there is written support for either position, which one will we choose? Perhaps this is a means to discover who each of us really is, by offering us either choice, hence dividing us into two camps for God's purposes.
That said, there may be no way to reconcile the two camps because the two camps serve a higher purpose. No doubt there are many scriptural references to the separation of wheat and tares, sheep and goats. God is an unmixed God. He is always separating things according to type, and commanding the same.