Born Again Speaking in Tongues

[notuptome]

so I simply refer to scripture to prove that the baptism of the Holy Spirit occurs after salvation and is not a part of salvation

I always thought that you had a correct understanding of what it was to be saved. You have just created serious doubt in my mind about what you understand about being saved.

Baptism of the Holy Spirit is the regenerating the quickening of the soul lost in sin. It is the moment when we are saved and made alive in Christ. There are many fillings of the Holy Spirit that follow the baptism of the Holy Spirit but only one baptism and that at the moment of salvation.

Ephesians chapter 2 makes a clear presentation on this matter. Titus 3:5 tells us of the washing, the baptism of the Holy Spirit.

If you presume to tell me that the bible teaches baptism of the Holy Spirit occurs after salvation then show it from the scriptures and not from opinion.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[eternally-gratefull]

EG you know that it’s the blood atonement that we trust in for our salvation to enter the Kingdom of Heaven.

How is that blood atonement applied to you UNLESS you are baptized into it?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Who is “we”? There are those on this thread who have made it clear it’s the blood atonement that they trust in for salvation, yet there are still some who have made it clear that they trust in the blood atonement + “something else” for salvation — namely, water baptism (and in some cases must be done using the formula of “in Jesus name only” and speaking in tongues. We must not compromise the gospel for the sake of unity elsewhere.

Its sad that people can not see this reality. This op is about how one is saved, not gifting, but people have turned it into a gifting thread..

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Whoa!!!!!! We have drifted waaaaay off course!

Let’s go back to what unites us as SAVED BELIEVERS in Yeshua/Jesus....

1. The Blood of Yeshua/Jesus takes away ALL our sins;

2. The Body of Yeshua/Jesus is the human fulfillment of the Law of Moses - meaning “The Lord our Righteousness”;

3. Now, by receiving the Blood and Body of Yeshua/Jesus we are saved;

4. Yeshua/Jesus “breathes” on us and seals us with the Holy Spirit just as He did His disciples in John 20:22:

And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and saith unto them, Receive ye the Holy Ghost.

5. Then, Yeshua/Jesus baptizes us in The Holy Spirit empowering us with His love, authority and power to be His witnesses on the Earth...

(Note: It is a separate encounter with The Holy Spirit because why would Yeshua/Jesus breathe on His disciples and say “receive the Holy Spirit” and later tell them “you shall receive power after the Holy Spirit comes upon you to be my witnesses.”;

6. We are forever changed......

Please don’t let the enemy’s lies hold you back from the baptism of the Holy Spirit.......

Without it, you have no power.....just words....... empty words.....

Baptism of the spirit was not given UNTIL that day. That was Gods plan.

It is not a different plan or different event, It is what happens to ALL believers after this point (before this point, this event could not occure, because the HS was not yet sent)

It is not what people want us to think it is. Jesu sspoke of two events.

1. The baptism (cleansing) of the HS
2. The anointing (when the spirit comes upon you) of the Holy Spirit. ) Empowering

People are making the baptism of God into some religious experience, taking away from what it really means.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

so I simply refer to scripture to prove that the baptism of the Holy Spirit occurs after salvation and is not a part of salvation

no one responds to that because that would mean they acknowledge it. even saying they do not agree would be absurd in light of what is actually written

so instead, we have the peanut gallery hooting and jeering as they usually do and slapping each other on the back and making fun and having a good ole time

I would say we have had the final reveal and all the masks are off

congratulations boys.

the blindness is going to get worse

ta ta

People did respond.. And have been for months. And proved your scripture did not prove your point

You just can not see it

Good going!

 

[eternally-gratefull]

dc, there is a difference between being sealed with the Holy Spirit and being baptized with the Holy Spirit. Definitely, two very distinctive encounters.

You have so much word in you and I know you love God, I just don't understand why you resist and speak against the baptism of the Holy Spirit.

I think "messenger" is the wrong word.......it should be "witness." We receive power after the Holy Spirit comes upon us to be witnesses of Yeshua/Jesus. Without the power of the Holy Spirit, we're not effective witnesses - no power.

I agree, there is a difference

Beintg baptised with the spirit is the Holy Spirit himself (it is he who is doing the baptizing) baptizing us
1. INTO the death and burial of Christ, and into christ himself (rom 6)
2. Into His body (1 cor 12)
3. Into Christ (gal 3)
4. A spiritual baptism which is th emeans of our spiritual circumcision (col 2)
5. Based on Gods mercy, is the act of God washing us (Titus 3:5) to enable our renewing (new birth) in Christ.

The seal is part of the anointing, where the spirit comes into (not baptized) us.

I am sure DC understand this point.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

If God wanted to "immerse" you in His Holy Spirit and release in you the gift of speaking in tongues, would you say, "Yes, Lord!"..................

God did use the HS to immerse me over 40 years ago

If he needs me to spek in tongues, He will give me that gift, Just like he has given me all my gifts.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I have a friend that prayed in tongues over me. I couldn't tell what language it was. I know it wasn't spanish or french. She says she doesn't always know what the words are that she is speaking. I still don't know exactly what to think of it.

How then do you know what they prayed? Are you sure it was from God? How?

What if the person prayed over you in your own language, and you knew the words. Would that notbe more powerful?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I'm 54 yrs old now but, was 25 yrs old when I received the baptism in the Holy Spirit and began to speak in tongues. It's absolutely wonderful! Go for ALL God has for you! Don't let anyone get in your way!

You did not recieve any gift through baptism of the spirit (maybe from the anointing? I will not deny you maybe spoke in tongues, But I will disagree how you think you received it)

That is not what the baptism of the spirit does.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

No there ain't.
One is sealed with the Holy Spirit when one is baptised in the Holy Spirit.
One must seek for and pray to receive the indwelling Holy Spirit.
When a repentant believer receives the Holy Spirit they shall speak in a new tongue - they will be able to pray in the Holy Spirit.
It's all pretty simple and straightforward really.

Thank you for proving one is not saved UNLESS they are baptized

And if you are sealed. You are indwell. This makes no sense. THE Ot people had to pray for it. Not the new.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

That's right - the word of God is not true and unreliable for doctrine …

Mark 16 contradicts other passages which speak of the same event.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

In Matthew 3:11, we read - As for me, I baptize you with water for repentance, but He who is coming after me is mightier than I, and I am not fit to remove His sandals; He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire. In John 7:38-39, we read - He who believes in Me, as the Scripture has said, out of his heart will flow rivers of living water.” 39 But this He spoke concerning the Spirit, whom those believing in Him would receive; for the Holy Spirit was not yet given, because Jesus was not yet glorified. Believers were still saved prior to this event (John 1:12; 20:31), otherwise, prior to Pentecost, everyone remained lost. I NEVER said that the Holy Spirit did not come in a different way on the day of Pentecost to those gathered in the upper room. I don't dismiss it. That is a straw man argument.

*Acts 2:1 - When the Day of Pentecost had fully come, they were all with one accord in one place. 2 And suddenly there came a sound from heaven, as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled the whole house where they were sitting. 3 Then there appeared to them divided tongues, as of fire, and one sat upon each of them. 4 And they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.

When did I say that no one in the upper room was saved? Salvation is through believing in Jesus (John 1:12; 3:15,16,18,36; 6:29,40,47; 11:25,26; 20:31; Acts 10:43; 13:39; 16:31 etc..)

I never said the purpose of being filled with the Holy Spirit in the upper room was to convict these believers of sin and save them. I understand what took placed was the fulfillment of what was spoken by the prophet Joel. (Acts 2:14-16)

The point that I was making about where my wife grew up (that apparently went right over your head) that in the book of Acts, there were some occasions in which the receiving of the Holy Spirit was delayed until the apostles laid hands on them (and there was a reason for that) yet this was the exception and not the rule for all, yet the LDS and RLDS made it the rule for all. It's the same with tongues. Not everyone experiences what took place in Acts 2:4, yet certain people want to turn the exception into the rule for all. So you acknowledge, not all tongues are authentic, but we don't need to throw the baby out with the bath water.



It's a two way street. I don't look down my nose at cessationists or non cessationists.

Yet genuine Christians do not pervert the gospel.

I don't see in scripture where baptism with the Holy Spirit happens under two separate occasions. I see where ALL believers are baptized by one Spirit into one body (1 Corinthians 12:13) and certain believers are "filled" with the Holy Spirit to accomplish specific tasks, as we saw at Pentecost when they began to speak in other tongues and those listening heard them speak in their own language.

ALL believers being baptized by one Spirit into one body (1 Corinthians 12:13) and certain believers being "filled" with the Holy Spirit and speaking in tongues (Acts 2:4) are two distinct things. Not all believers speak in tongues (1 Corinthians 12)

You mean being "filled" with the Holy Spirit? So those who believe the gospel and are sealed with the Holy Spirit (have received the indwelling Holy Spirit/baptized by one Spirit into one body - Ephesians 1:13; 1 Corinthians 12:13) are still in need of an "additional" baptism in the Holy Spirit (Matthew 3:11) in order to receive empowerment and otherwise, such believers simply wonder the earth as carnal Christians with no discernment and are powerless? Is that what you are saying?

Amen brother,

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I always thought that you had a correct understanding of what it was to be saved. You have just created serious doubt in my mind about what you understand about being saved.

Baptism of the Holy Spirit is the regenerating the quickening of the soul lost in sin. It is the moment when we are saved and made alive in Christ. There are many fillings of the Holy Spirit that follow the baptism of the Holy Spirit but only one baptism and that at the moment of salvation.

Ephesians chapter 2 makes a clear presentation on this matter. Titus 3:5 tells us of the washing, the baptism of the Holy Spirit.

If you presume to tell me that the bible teaches baptism of the Holy Spirit occurs after salvation then show it from the scriptures and not from opinion.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

What will it take for them to see?

 

[mailmandan]

You would of course like @dcontroversal be referring to the exact same gospel spoken of by Jesus himself

15 And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.
16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.
17 And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;
18 They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.
19 So then after the Lord had spoken unto them, he was received up into heaven, and sat on the right hand of God.
20 And they went forth, and preached every where, the Lord working with them, and confirming the word with signs following.
Mark 16:

Your absolute obsession with signs has blinded you to the truth of the gospel. John the Baptist preached the gospel of the kingdom, which was, "..Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand" (Matthew 3:2). Jesus Christ sent the twelve to preach only to Israel. Matthew 10:5 - These twelve Jesus sent out and commanded them, saying: “Do not go into the way of the Gentiles, and do not enter a city of the Samaritans. 6 But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel. 7 And as you go, preach, saying, ‘The kingdom of heaven is at hand.’

*Galatians 1:11 - But I make known to you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached by me is not according to man. 12 For I neither received it from man, nor was I taught it, but it came through the revelation of Jesus Christ.

In 1 Corinthians 15:1-4, Paul clearly stated that the gospel is the "good news" of the death, burial and resurrection of Christ and in Romans 1:16, Paul clearly stated that the gospel is the power of God unto salvation to everyone that BELIEVES.. To "believe" the gospel is to trust in the death, burial and resurrection of Christ as the ALL-sufficient means of our salvation. The gospel is NOT get water baptized and speak in tongues in order to be saved. That is a "different" gospel.

In this age, therefore, there is a distinct element to the content of the gospel which is called "the mystery of the gospel" (Ephesians 6:19; Colossians 1:26-27; 4:3). This new revelation is that the Gentiles are fellow heirs and fellow members of the body, and fellow-partakers of the promise (Ephesians 3:1-9). Such equality with Jew and Gentile being united together in one body was previously unknown. The distinct message of the church is that Jew and Gentile alike may believe the gospel and be united together into ONE BODY (Ephesians 1:13; 1 Corinthians 12:13). You need to go beyond (your pet verse) Acts 2:38.

 

[PennEd]

You did not recieve any gift through baptism of the spirit (maybe from the anointing? I will not deny you maybe spoke in tongues, But I will disagree how you think you received it)

That is not what the baptism of the spirit does.

Yes. I believe there is massive confusion on this.
We are Baptized with the Holy Spirit upon conversion.
At that time the Holy Spirit indwells and seals us until the day we receive our Glorified bodies. But the Holy Spirit can come UPON US at different times for different purposes.

Also, I believe the more we walk in the Spirit, the more noticeable His Presence is. I think some people confuse the experience of FEELING His Presence, with some type of baptism of the Holy Spirit Event. We have already seen where the SAME Apostles that were "baptized in the Holy Spirit" in Acts, had ALREADY received the Holy Spirit days earlier.

 

[Bethohio1]

How then do you know what they prayed? Are you sure it was from God? How?

What if the person prayed over you in your own language, and you knew the words. Would that notbe more powerful?

All I am saying is I've known her a long time and I was astonished to hear her so fluently speaking this language, whatever it was. But I said in another post that I wasn't sure what to think about it. It's interesting to read differing viewpoints here from believers.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Yes. I believe there is massive confusion on this.
We are Baptized with the Holy Spirit upon conversion.
At that time the Holy Spirit indwells and seals us until the day we receive our Glorified bodies. But the Holy Spirit can come UPON US at different times for different purposes.

Also, I believe the more we walk in the Spirit, the more noticeable His Presence is. I think some people confuse the experience of FEELING His Presence, with some type of baptism of the Holy Spirit Event. We have already seen where the SAME Apostles that were "baptized in the Holy Spirit" in Acts, had ALREADY received the Holy Spirit days earlier.

I still say if the english writers had translated the word (baptize) and we would stop using the old english word (tongue) we would not be having this discussion

 

[eternally-gratefull]

All I am saying is I've known her a long time and I was astonished to hear her so fluently speaking this language, whatever it was. But I said in another post that I wasn't sure what to think about it. It's interesting to read differing viewpoints here from believers.

Its all good sis.

But I have to question, You said she spoke fluintly. How could you tell if you did not know the language? I ask, because if I went to china, I could think all people I spoke to speak fluently, but I would have no way to tell. Because I do not know the language.

 

[wolfwint]

You're silly, wolf! You don't even have sense enough to hide in sheepskin...... you call yourself "Wolf"......LOL!

Thank you for compliment😀

 

[Bethohio1]

Its all good sis.

But I have to question, You said she spoke fluintly. How could you tell if you did not know the language? I ask, because if I went to china, I could think all people I spoke to speak fluently, but I would have no way to tell. Because I do not know the language.

I told her at that time I was having some struggles. She asked if it would be ok to pray over me. I said yes, and then she prayed for maybe a full minute or so. By fluent I just mean it came out effortlessly and very smoothly. I don't know what she was saying or if it was even a language for sure. Maybe I shouldn't refer to it as a language. I guess if it wasn't from God, then would be from the devil or simply originating within her own self. Not sure what any other options would be.