Did Jesus ever tell us that we no longer need to keep the law of Moses?

[eternally-gratefull]

You must be careful when you say "we" not to include:

Gen 26:4-5 KJV And I will make thy seed to multiply as the stars of heaven, and will give unto thy seed all these countries; and in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed; (5) Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws.

Job 1:8 KJV And the LORD said unto Satan, Hast thou considered my servant Job, that there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil?


Mat 23:35 KJV That upon you may come all the righteous blood shed upon the earth, from the blood of righteous Abel unto the blood of Zacharias son of Barachias, whom ye slew between the temple and the altar. *Note these were only the bookends of a long list!

Luk 1:5-6 KJV There was in the days of Herod, the king of Judaea, a certain priest named Zacharias, of the course of Abia: and his wife was of the daughters of Aaron, and her name was Elisabeth. (6) And they were both righteous before God, walking in all the commandments and ordinances of the Lord blameless.

When Paul quoted David from Psalm 14 where David is referring to the "fool" and the "workers of lawlessness" where he said "there is none righteous, no not one..." He couldn't have been referring to Zacharias who Jesus said was righteous and kept his commandments! So what then? Are you misusing this quote in order to justify sinning?

Even Paul said:

Act 23:1 KJV And Paul, earnestly beholding the council, said, Men and brethren, I have lived in all good conscience before God until this day.


If a man can read these verses and not come away with how there were righteous men, then what is really at work here?

So these men were perfect?

It is one thing to live a morally righteous life. It is another the keep the law of God as required (perfection)

Even James agrees.

James 2:10
For whoever shall keep the whole law, and yet stumble in one point, he is guilty of all.

So did Abraham keep the whole law? Well no. He sinned many times

Even jesus admitted, No one is Good (perfect) but God himself. And paul makes it clear that ALL have sinned and fall short of Gods glorious standard (the law)

So again. Are you perfect? If not. Your just like these men, and you better have Christ, and his forgiveness, or your heading down a dangerous path.

You see. Once again, you are not listening. I am not against obedience, That is what you have been told (or falsely believe) I am against those who try to impse the law as a means to be obedient, It was NVR given for that purpose.

These men obeyed, because they had love, When they stopped loving, and though of self. They sinned, Just like all of us do. WHich is why the law is useless in helping us, because the gives th eknowledge of sin, it does not give the power or ability to stop sin. Thats why not one man who ever lived (apart from Christ) could ever fulfill the law. Not you, Not me, Not anyone in this room. We all have sinned, are sinning and will cotniue to fall short of Gods glory (the law)

 

[eternally-gratefull]

How did some Christians go from no longer being under the law to being above it?

No christians have gone above the law, and no christian is under it

The law is a tutor. Once it has accomplished its purpose it is no longer applicable to the christian, because God took what we could not do on himself and suffered for us.

Thats the gospel.

The law is still binding for all whoo do nt believe, And apart from cHrist, the law wuld still contemn every christian.

You should thank God you are no longer under law. Or you would be under that curse and headed to a place you do not wish to go.

 

[Leastamongmany]

Jesus said He came to fulfil the law.HE is the New Covenant for man's sins and righteousness with God!🙏

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Ya see EG? Grace is what gets one to believing! Grace is what gets one accepting Christ for forgiveness of sin! Grace is what keeps one forgiven, while they grow in Christ!
Christ is NOT the Father!
The Father is IN Christ, and Christ is also IN the Father! Yet? The Father is HIS OWN ENTITY! Just as Christ is HIS own entity!

In the light of "many are called.....FEW are "chosen!" Who's doin' the "callin'" EG? The Father? The Son? YES!
Who's doin' the "Choosing?" The Father? The Son? THE FATHER!

The "problem" with so many believers these days, is they CANNOT "see" the "Son", for who He is. Because they cannot "see" the Father, for WHO HE IS!
And, this is where the "law" comes to bare!
The diametrical opposing, of this "Grace vs. Law", is when you add "man" into this equation!
And? Until, or unless you allow the "Lord of the Harvest" to "harvest" you? Which means for "certain" individuals? The "end of this age" has already arrived, while we are yet walking around sucking air on THIS side of the 2nd coming! And, not after we are watching the business end of the lawnmower going over us!

Am I saying you aren't saved? Of course not!
What I take issue with is peoples' painting of grace as the whole picture! When it isn't!

I also understand why Paul WOULD NOT expound upon these matters, as he would have gotten the same RESPONSES! Milky babies CANNOT digest meat! Why? Because it AIN'T milk!

Try to feed it to 'em? They spit it right out! Try to "chew" it a little to make it more acceptable? Then, they want YOU to "do it ALL" for them!
Sorry bud! It don't work that way!

For the record? SOME things? Are TRUE! Whether one BELIEVES 'em, or not!

Why do people want to make things so complicated?

The law. Exposes people sins, proves to them they need a savior. Because they can nto save themselves

Grace, free gift of God to those who believe, who has taken the curse of the law on their behalf on the cross (as paul said he nailed it to the cross)

One condemns.

One saves.

Thats the simplicity of the gospel. Maybe thats why it is so hard for many to accept?

 

[SimpleGardner]

So these men were perfect?

It is one thing to live a morally righteous life. It is another the keep the law of God as required (perfection)

Even James agrees.

James 2:10
For whoever shall keep the whole law, and yet stumble in one point, he is guilty of all.

So did Abraham keep the whole law? Well no. He sinned many times

Even jesus admitted, No one is Good (perfect) but God himself. And paul makes it clear that ALL have sinned and fall short of Gods glorious standard (the law)

So again. Are you perfect? If not. Your just like these men, and you better have Christ, and his forgiveness, or your heading down a dangerous path.

You see. Once again, you are not listening. I am not against obedience, That is what you have been told (or falsely believe) I am against those who try to impse the law as a means to be obedient, It was NVR given for that purpose.

These men obeyed, because they had love, When they stopped loving, and though of self. They sinned, Just like all of us do. WHich is why the law is useless in helping us, because the gives th eknowledge of sin, it does not give the power or ability to stop sin. Thats why not one man who ever lived (apart from Christ) could ever fulfill the law. Not you, Not me, Not anyone in this room. We all have sinned, are sinning and will cotniue to fall short of Gods glory (the law)

Please enumerate Abraham's sins.

Did you add the word "perfect"?

Did I not say I recognize/confess Jesus as my Redeemer?

I think the trouble with our discussions is that you are fixed, closed to any discussions on the Law. You will go your way, I will follow how I am being led and when the end comes we will either stand or fall. This much is true.

We are not agreed, so how can we walk together. I do however pray for you and for open eyes, ears and heart for us both.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Please enumerate Abraham's sins.

Did you add the word "perfect"?

Did I not say I recognize/confess Jesus as my Redeemer?

I think the trouble with our discussions is that you are fixed, closed to any discussions on the Law. You will go your way, I will follow how I am being led and when the end comes we will either stand or fall. This much is true.

We are not agreed, so how can we walk together. I do however pray for you and for open eyes, ears and heart for us both.

Our conversation is the law

The law REQUIRES PERFECTION. Anyone who is not perfect is GUILTY according to the law

So anytime you discuss the law. perfection MUST be included in the topic. (Because as moses said, All must make an oath to confirm and OBEY EVERY LETTER, otherwise, they would be under a curse. And paul reiterated this in his letter the the galation church, WHo also had people trying to put people BACK under law in the name of christ.

As for Abraham sins, are you serious? You do not know them? The bible opens them up for all of us to see.

As for you and confessing jesus as your redeemer. If you say you have, Thats awesome,

But why would you confess him as redeemer, then try to put everyone back under the law he died to redeem you from?

 

[DeighAnn]

IF WE GET RID OF THE LAW, DO WE END UP with LAWLESSNESS?

The Man of Sin and/or Man of Lawlessness

2 Thessalonians 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

458 anomia lawlessness, iniquity, disobedience, sin anomia includes the end-impact of law breaking – i.e. its negative influence on a person's soul "status before God"
COMES FROM STRONGS
1 alpha used as a prefix meaning NOT
and
3551 nomos custom, law; in NT: of law in general, of divine laws; of a force or influence impelling to action; of the Mosaic law; meton: of the books which contain the law, the Pentateuch, the Old Testament scriptures in general

lawlessness the utter disregard for God's law (His written and living Word).



paraphrase ing biblehubs Strongs Concordance

 

[SimpleGardner]

Our conversation is the law

The law REQUIRES PERFECTION. Anyone who is not perfect is GUILTY according to the law

So anytime you discuss the law. perfection MUST be included in the topic. (Because as moses said, All must make an oath to confirm and OBEY EVERY LETTER, otherwise, they would be under a curse. And paul reiterated this in his letter the the galation church, WHo also had people trying to put people BACK under law in the name of christ.

As for Abraham sins, are you serious? You do not know them? The bible opens them up for all of us to see.

As for you and confessing jesus as your redeemer. If you say you have, Thats awesome,

But why would you confess him as redeemer, then try to put everyone back under the law he died to redeem you from?

"Why would I try to put everyone back under the law He died to redeem you from? Good question!

First of all; I'm not. I have no authority to do that. Have I been redeemed? YES!

To answer your question, tell me what Paul meant by:

Rom 6:1-2 KJV What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound? (2) God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?

 

[SimpleGardner]

IF WE GET RID OF THE LAW, DO WE END UP with LAWLESSNESS?

The Man of Sin and/or Man of Lawlessness

2 Thessalonians 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

458 anomia lawlessness, iniquity, disobedience, sin anomia includes the end-impact of law breaking – i.e. its negative influence on a person's soul "status before God"
COMES FROM STRONGS
1 alpha used as a prefix meaning NOT
and
3551 nomos custom, law; in NT: of law in general, of divine laws; of a force or influence impelling to action; of the Mosaic law; meton: of the books which contain the law, the Pentateuch, the Old Testament scriptures in general

lawlessness the utter disregard for God's law (His written and living Word).



paraphrase ing biblehubs Strongs Concordance

Excellent citation!

Also note:

Mat 7:22-23 KJV Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? (23) And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
Iniquity here is also anomia.

So who will Jesus tell to depart from Him? Those who work without the law....

 

[DeighAnn]

Excellent citation!

Also note:

Mat 7:22-23 KJV Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? (23) And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
Iniquity here is also anomia.

So who will Jesus tell to depart from Him? Those who work without the law....

I have such a hard time with the separation between those who "spend their time with the Word" over this. There is obvious love there for the Lord, how can we see it so different when there is so much thought and prayer on the subject? I cant see how "fulfilling" makes it go away, any more than having to get rid of the "old" to make room for the "new" seems to bring about the thought that "nothing from the old remained" or that if you believe any of the law exists that you don't also have complete faith in our Lord and what that all encompasses. BUT I think my biggest problem with "NO LAW" is for those who are coming to the faith not being taught "the law and the prophets or any OT, "because it was done away with" and you are saved for ever and there is no more sin and all the other things that follow that line of thinking.

 

[NayborBear]

Why do people want to make things so complicated?

The law. Exposes people sins, proves to them they need a savior. Because they can nto save themselves

Grace, free gift of God to those who believe, who has taken the curse of the law on their behalf on the cross (as paul said he nailed it to the cross)

One condemns.

One saves.

Thats the simplicity of the gospel. Maybe thats why it is so hard for many to accept?

Your message/s are great EG, for the unbeliever, and baby believers.
I also must admit that your demeanor frustrates those who "hear" the high(er) calling of God! To the which, I almost exclusively am baring a witness to, and testifying the concerning's of.

As someone said, and, I think I have said as much before regarding this.
We are not going to see "eye to eye" about this. On this side of the 2nd coming,, anyways.
So, go ahead and let your love "cover those multitude of sin/s", until that time, when it no longer shall.
Perhaps? At that time we'll talk more concerning "grace vs. law."

 

[eternally-gratefull]

"Why would I try to put everyone back under the law He died to redeem you from? Good question!

First of all; I'm not. I have no authority to do that. Have I been redeemed? YES!

To answer your question, tell me what Paul meant by:

Rom 6:1-2 KJV What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound? (2) God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?

What does this have to do with anything?
Our conversation started when you were preaching law. And I tried to show you a different view. And you wrongly accused me of hating gods law.

Seems like your trying to change the subject.

PS. I am not teachin git is OK to sin either. So once again, Instead of trying to understand what I am saying, You assume. And you do exactly what they say about those who assume.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Excellent citation!

Also note:

Mat 7:22-23 KJV Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? (23) And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
Iniquity here is also anomia.

So who will Jesus tell to depart from Him? Those who work without the law....

He will tell exactly what he said. Those who ome to him and try to implore their works in his name is why they should be let in. And not grace.

They pra ctice iniquity because all non believers practice iniquity, even though they may appear to live moral lives.

Paul made it clear. The law caused sin to INCREASE .

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Your message/s are great EG, for the unbeliever, and baby believers.
I also must admit that your demeanor frustrates those who "hear" the high(er) calling of God! To the which, I almost exclusively am baring a witness to, and testifying the concerning's of.

As someone said, and, I think I have said as much before regarding this.
We are not going to see "eye to eye" about this. On this side of the 2nd coming,, anyways.
So, go ahead and let your love "cover those multitude of sin/s", until that time, when it no longer shall.
Perhaps? At that time we'll talk more concerning "grace vs. law."

My message concerns the gospel

It is not about being sanctified or the christian growth aspect of our walk with God.

If you wish to talk about this we can. But that is for another thread.

 

[SimpleGardner]

What does this have to do with anything?
Our conversation started when you were preaching law. And I tried to show you a different view. And you wrongly accused me of hating gods law.

Seems like your trying to change the subject.

PS. I am not teachin git is OK to sin either. So once again, Instead of trying to understand what I am saying, You assume. And you do exactly what they say about those who assume.

We do seem to go round and round about this and I don't want to alienate you, at all.

And I could retort that your PS says its not okay to sin, but then you would have to know what the law is in order not to sin and then it goes round and round again.

Are you misquoting me when you say I said "you hated Gods Laws"? Yes you are. The word I used was "rejected" to refuse to agree to. That sums it up nicely. Show me a person who loves his neighbor who casually disparages and trivializes a mans words by saying" "Poor poor PS. Little red X.. ha ha ha" Did you reject a law to say this?

 

[PS]

I haven't read the whole thread, did anyone find scripture answering the OP question? Did Jesus ever say we don't have to keep the law of Moses? If anybody knows, please enlighten me which post?

Jesus said we would never enter the kingdom of heaven "unless our righteousness greatly exceeded that of the scribes and Pharisees." ((Mat 5:19)

The emphasis is on righteousness and as the righteousness of even the scribes and Pharisees was not sufficient, "God made the one who did not know sin to be sin for us, so that God's righteousness would be produced in us." (2Co 5:21) "Who himself bore our sins" in his body on the tree, so that we might die to sin and live righteously. "By his wounds you have been healed." (1Pe 2:24)

So, instead of looking to the law, we need to look to Jesus for His righteousness and to "love the Lord our God with all our heart, with all our soul, and with all our mind.' while at the same time "We love our neighbour as ourself.' (Mat 22:37-39 ISV)

 

[SimpleGardner]

Jesus said we would never enter the kingdom of heaven "unless our righteousness greatly exceeded that of the scribes and Pharisees." ((Mat 5:19)

The emphasis is on righteousness and as the righteousness of even the scribes and Pharisees was not sufficient, "God made the one who did not know sin to be sin for us, so that God's righteousness would be produced in us." (2Co 5:21) "Who himself bore our sins" in his body on the tree, so that we might die to sin and live righteously. "By his wounds you have been healed." (1Pe 2:24)

So, instead of looking to the law, we need to look to Jesus for His righteousness and to "love the Lord our God with all our heart, with all our soul, and with all our mind.' while at the same time "We love our neighbour as ourself.' (Mat 22:37-39 ISV)

Nicely put PS,

I sincerely appreciate your words and admire your sincerity.

When we "look to Jesus", do you read His words and note His commands? I think so.

Who can argue with "Love your neighbor as yourself"

Or the Laws He established to us through His many observations: such as:

Mar 12:41-44 KJV And Jesus sat over against the treasury, and beheld how the people cast money into the treasury: and many that were rich cast in much. (42) And there came a certain poor widow, and she threw in two mites, which make a farthing. (43) And he called unto him his disciples, and saith unto them, Verily I say unto you, That this poor widow hath cast more in, than all they which have cast into the treasury: (44) For all they did cast in of their abundance; but she of her want did cast in all that she had, even all her living.



He gave us many commands and admonitions. I'm not sure if you are trying to say that the righteousness of the Pharisees was a high mark or not, but I think they were severe hypocrites, not examples of men we should strive or hope to emulate. So, yeah Jesus was essentially saying see those hypocrites, I know they claim to be your religious leaders, but you better be more righteous than them! Not too much different than many of today's "religious leaders".

Jesus' words, commands, admonitions, examples stand across all time and covenant and circumstance. They are for us to know and emulate forever! He spoke, and lived and exuded the very heart of God and gave those to us to live by and prosper spritually. His laws are the key to abundance! They are not what redeemed us, but they are what sustain us as disciples who walk as their teacher did. So yes, I look to Jesus to sustain me and I recognize grace as a gift that guides me into the love for His ways, commands, judgements, etc!

Love me or not, I have fellowship "in Christ"/In the anointing through this course.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

We do seem to go round and round about this and I don't want to alienate you, at all.

And I could retort that your PS says its not okay to sin, but then you would have to know what the law is in order not to sin and then it goes round and round again.

Are you misquoting me when you say I said "you hated Gods Laws"? Yes you are. The word I used was "rejected" to refuse to agree to. That sums it up nicely. Show me a person who loves his neighbor who casually disparages and trivializes a mans words by saying" "Poor poor PS. Little red X.. ha ha ha" Did you reject a law to say this?

Its time to remind you of when this all started

Jesus referred to the two greatest commandments; love God with all your heart your soul your mind love your neighbor as yourself as the law of love. But he didn’t say these replaced “All the Law”, quite the opposite, He referred to these two laws as the proper motivation for keeping all the Laws in the OT!

There's two ways to keep the commandments written in the Old Testament.

The first one would be out of the fear of the curses that come to those who don't keep them.

The second one is when you keep the commandments out of love for your God and out of love for your neighbor, not out of a fear of the curses that come with them that's the law of love.

To which I replied as a counter argument

All of the law was given NOT to show us HOW to be righteous, but to show just how unrighteous, and far away from God we really are.

The law of love is used to show us HOW to not only life the law but the prophets.. As we focus on loving others (seeking after the spirit) and not focused on how good or bad we are. Or what we personally need to be doing (self focused)

Thats WHY the law was done away with, it was not given to show us how to live. It was given to show our tragic deep seeded alienation from God, and in doing so. Lead us to christ.

To which you replied from another post I made..

One must note the spirit with which those who reject the Laws of God operate in. Note the disparaging, trivializing spirit in
eternally-gratefull's" words. Why such a lack of respect and dishonoring of others? These are markers of those who are lawless. Jesus Himself warned that love would grow cold in many due to "lawlessness";

So lets get back to the topic dude. You said this is not about law. Well once again you were just exposed as the liar you are. (Claiming it was not about the law) You want to keep playing little kids games, I will keep exposing your sin.
Or do you want to get back to what really seperates you. That you think the law shows you HOW to be obedient, And I think all it does is EXPOSE how disobedient we are. And it is the LAW of love that shows us how to be obedient, and obey the law.

 

[PS]

Nicely put PS,

I sincerely appreciate your words and admire your sincerity.

When we "look to Jesus", do you read His words and note His commands? I think so.

Who can argue with "Love your neighbor as yourself"

Or the Laws He established to us through His many observations: such as:

Mar 12:41-44 KJV And Jesus sat over against the treasury, and beheld how the people cast money into the treasury: and many that were rich cast in much. (42) And there came a certain poor widow, and she threw in two mites, which make a farthing. (43) And he called unto him his disciples, and saith unto them, Verily I say unto you, That this poor widow hath cast more in, than all they which have cast into the treasury: (44) For all they did cast in of their abundance; but she of her want did cast in all that she had, even all her living.



He gave us many commands and admonitions. I'm not sure if you are trying to say that the righteousness of the Pharisees was a high mark or not, but I think they were severe hypocrites, not examples of men we should strive or hope to emulate. So, yeah Jesus was essentially saying see those hypocrites, I know they claim to be your religious leaders, but you better be more righteous than them! Not too much different than many of today's "religious leaders".

Jesus' words, commands, admonitions, examples stand across all time and covenant and circumstance. They are for us to know and emulate forever! He spoke, and lived and exuded the very heart of God and gave those to us to live by and prosper spritually. His laws are the key to abundance! They are not what redeemed us, but they are what sustain us as disciples who walk as their teacher did. So yes, I look to Jesus to sustain me and I recognize grace as a gift that guides me into the love for His ways, commands, judgements, etc!

Love me or not, I have fellowship "in Christ"/In the anointing through this course.

Thank you. Those who are righteous are "right with God" and as Jesus is "God with us" I look to the teaching of Jesus, our new High Priest to be right with God while trusting entirely in His redeeming work for my salvation. The Pharisees were far from being 'right with God.'
May God bless.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Thank you. Those who are righteous are "right with God" and as Jesus is "God with us" I look to the teaching of Jesus, our new High Priest to be right with God while trusting entirely in His redeeming work for my salvation. The Pharisees were far from being 'right with God.'
May God bless.

and how are we righteous

By the law

Or by faith in god through his imputes righteousness (the blood on the mercy seat)?