I have read the conversation and just wanted to put my thoughts out there. I believe all the things being spoken of here can come into play in the life of a believer. God has put me in an AoG Pentecostal church, and I LOVE them, I am supposed to be here, and I will testify they are God loving, Jesus praising, people loving, outside the walls looking on fire in the Spirit church. Boo-Ya!!!
And I hold the view that the understanding of tongues in this way is not entirely accurate. I don't speak in tongues that way because I feel like I'd be faking it and I just proclaim His word and my love for Jesus out loud when the Spirit starts falling heavy, but I know in my spirit that they are doing this for the glory of God, and I see no reason for it to be a divisive thing. I also hold very different views on eschatology with the whole pre-tib thing, but again this doesn't make me want to divide at all. I love the people He has blessed me to know, and we proclaim His name to this world as He commands. I also just can't label myself "Pentecostal", or anything else. I know it's at this point it’s just cliché, but I am just a Christian. I follow Jesus and want to tell everybody about Him.
I also wanted to share my perspective on the, “what it takes to be saved, baptism, tongues, repentance, thing”. I full heartedly agree repentance must come before salvation, it’s just part of it. But the question “Is repentance a work?”, is valid and worth looking into. Here are some verses that seem to suggest repentance is a gift.
Romans 2:4
Or do you think lightly of the riches of His kindness and tolerance and patience, not knowing that the kindness of God leads you to repentance?
Acts 5:31
"He is the one whom God exalted to His right hand as a Prince and a Savior, to grant repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins.
I personally believe repentance is a gift, but I also think it’s important to understand what repentance is. My understanding of repentance, leading to salvation, is when we see “MY way” for what it truly is, and turn from it in total submission. I personally was saying “I can’t do this anymore”, and it was God that picked me back up. This is my understanding of what repentance is, just to start.
I went up and repeated the prayer before, then went out and was baptized, and was not saved. I thought I was a Christian, and really liked the idea of Jesus, but did not know Him. When I was saved it was 100% all God. I didn’t even know what happened to me until the next day, so there was no baptism, or speaking in tongues when I was truly saved. I did get baptized again AFTER I was saved as a sign of obedience and public proclamation I am born again.
In summary, I do believe repentance is a must, otherwise you still see “your way” as okay. This said, I believe repentance is a gift from God granted to us and not something we just “do”, nor can we take any credit for it, but the FIRST thing we are commanded to do as soon as Jesus ministry begins is to “repent”, so was Jesus wrong in saying that? Was John wrong in his message making straight the path for Him? We must turn from our way because “my way” only leads to death. Also, I do know and understand there are passages that suggest “we” repent. I was only sharing how He has brought me to understand it up to now. Thank you for reading and may His Spirit grant us all boldness to proclaim His name to this world that needs it, and to have these discussions and debates, but to do so knowing what bonds believers together and not let these things split us, or bring shame to His name. I pray this all in the mighty name of the King, Jesus. Amen.
And I hold the view that the understanding of tongues in this way is not entirely accurate. I don't speak in tongues that way because I feel like I'd be faking it and I just proclaim His word and my love for Jesus out loud when the Spirit starts falling heavy, but I know in my spirit that they are doing this for the glory of God, and I see no reason for it to be a divisive thing. I also hold very different views on eschatology with the whole pre-tib thing, but again this doesn't make me want to divide at all. I love the people He has blessed me to know, and we proclaim His name to this world as He commands. I also just can't label myself "Pentecostal", or anything else. I know it's at this point it’s just cliché, but I am just a Christian. I follow Jesus and want to tell everybody about Him.
I also wanted to share my perspective on the, “what it takes to be saved, baptism, tongues, repentance, thing”. I full heartedly agree repentance must come before salvation, it’s just part of it. But the question “Is repentance a work?”, is valid and worth looking into. Here are some verses that seem to suggest repentance is a gift.
Romans 2:4
Or do you think lightly of the riches of His kindness and tolerance and patience, not knowing that the kindness of God leads you to repentance?
Acts 5:31
"He is the one whom God exalted to His right hand as a Prince and a Savior, to grant repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins.
I personally believe repentance is a gift, but I also think it’s important to understand what repentance is. My understanding of repentance, leading to salvation, is when we see “MY way” for what it truly is, and turn from it in total submission. I personally was saying “I can’t do this anymore”, and it was God that picked me back up. This is my understanding of what repentance is, just to start.
I went up and repeated the prayer before, then went out and was baptized, and was not saved. I thought I was a Christian, and really liked the idea of Jesus, but did not know Him. When I was saved it was 100% all God. I didn’t even know what happened to me until the next day, so there was no baptism, or speaking in tongues when I was truly saved. I did get baptized again AFTER I was saved as a sign of obedience and public proclamation I am born again.
In summary, I do believe repentance is a must, otherwise you still see “your way” as okay. This said, I believe repentance is a gift from God granted to us and not something we just “do”, nor can we take any credit for it, but the FIRST thing we are commanded to do as soon as Jesus ministry begins is to “repent”, so was Jesus wrong in saying that? Was John wrong in his message making straight the path for Him? We must turn from our way because “my way” only leads to death. Also, I do know and understand there are passages that suggest “we” repent. I was only sharing how He has brought me to understand it up to now. Thank you for reading and may His Spirit grant us all boldness to proclaim His name to this world that needs it, and to have these discussions and debates, but to do so knowing what bonds believers together and not let these things split us, or bring shame to His name. I pray this all in the mighty name of the King, Jesus. Amen.
This is one of a couple doctrines that seem to destroy the foundation of doctrines .which are usually in the Old. Like the tongues doctrine.
From my experience most who make the claim of comfort from a unknown have little idea what tongues is or was it used means? According to my understanding its more those will seek after it by making their mind available as if its was the Holy Spirit? Jesus experienced that kind of ideology in Mathew 4, Three times the in heaven Father puts his word in Jesus's mouth and declared as it is written .
It seems.....lets get filled with wonderment as source of mysticism . No faith coming from all things written in the law and the prophets. No faith is . . . sounds that have no meaning.
No such thing as a "sign gift . Sign yes. Gift, yes. . Spiritual gifts not seen, yes. Sign gift.... both words working as one.... no . One source of Christ's faith, as it is written
Prophecy is for believers .Its what the sign according to the law given in 1 Corinthian 14:22-23 points to as the foundation of tongues doctrine in Isaiah 28
Sign gifts is the foundation of everyone that does seek after signs. . .it would seem to replace drawing power prophecy .(unknowns proves itself false) .
Can't see spiritual gifts of the Spirit, as if God was a man like us..We look to the things not seen. . . called faith. . . the eternal .
I have not met one person who seeks after wonderment's as "sign gifts" that will even look to the foundation of the doctrine .
I am reminded of David in the Psalms . What will the believers do if the foundations of the doctrines of God are destroyed. I would call. The shield psalm.
Perhaps a person should rethink ., how they hear God . There is always the danger of what do other says? Not that we should not seek after the gifts of the spirit as help from each other in respect to the whole body of Christ.
Psalm 11 King James Version (KJV) In the Lord put I my trust: how say ye to my soul, Flee as a bird to your mountain? For, lo, the wicked bend their bow, they make ready their arrow upon the string, that they may privily shoot at the upright in heart.
If the foundations be destroyed, what can the righteous do?
It would appear we lose our defense "the shield of faith". we must defend it as it is written or we have no support.
Above all, taking the "shield of faith:, wherewith ye shall be able to quench all the fiery darts of the wicked. Ephesian 6: 16
Once one confirms the outcome of 1 Corinthian 14:22-23 the rest of the doctrine of tongues falls into place .It will reveal what some call a "unknown tongue" as those that yet after all the scriptures that teaches us on the doctrine of tongues They still refuse to hear and look to the foundation . Its what the sign does confirm, unbelief. .
Personalty I would not want that kind of a sign following me .