Born Again Speaking in Tongues

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
Mar 28, 2016
15,954
1,528
113
I have read the conversation and just wanted to put my thoughts out there. I believe all the things being spoken of here can come into play in the life of a believer. God has put me in an AoG Pentecostal church, and I LOVE them, I am supposed to be here, and I will testify they are God loving, Jesus praising, people loving, outside the walls looking on fire in the Spirit church. Boo-Ya!!!



And I hold the view that the understanding of tongues in this way is not entirely accurate. I don't speak in tongues that way because I feel like I'd be faking it and I just proclaim His word and my love for Jesus out loud when the Spirit starts falling heavy, but I know in my spirit that they are doing this for the glory of God, and I see no reason for it to be a divisive thing. I also hold very different views on eschatology with the whole pre-tib thing, but again this doesn't make me want to divide at all. I love the people He has blessed me to know, and we proclaim His name to this world as He commands. I also just can't label myself "Pentecostal", or anything else. I know it's at this point it’s just cliché, but I am just a Christian. I follow Jesus and want to tell everybody about Him.


I also wanted to share my perspective on the, “what it takes to be saved, baptism, tongues, repentance, thing”. I full heartedly agree repentance must come before salvation, it’s just part of it. But the question “Is repentance a work?”, is valid and worth looking into. Here are some verses that seem to suggest repentance is a gift.



Romans 2:4

Or do you think lightly of the riches of His kindness and tolerance and patience, not knowing that the kindness of God leads you to repentance?

Acts 5:31

"He is the one whom God exalted to His right hand as a Prince and a Savior, to grant repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins.



I personally believe repentance is a gift, but I also think it’s important to understand what repentance is. My understanding of repentance, leading to salvation, is when we see “MY way” for what it truly is, and turn from it in total submission. I personally was saying “I can’t do this anymore”, and it was God that picked me back up. This is my understanding of what repentance is, just to start.

I went up and repeated the prayer before, then went out and was baptized, and was not saved. I thought I was a Christian, and really liked the idea of Jesus, but did not know Him. When I was saved it was 100% all God. I didn’t even know what happened to me until the next day, so there was no baptism, or speaking in tongues when I was truly saved. I did get baptized again AFTER I was saved as a sign of obedience and public proclamation I am born again.

In summary, I do believe repentance is a must, otherwise you still see “your way” as okay. This said, I believe repentance is a gift from God granted to us and not something we just “do”, nor can we take any credit for it, but the FIRST thing we are commanded to do as soon as Jesus ministry begins is to “repent”, so was Jesus wrong in saying that? Was John wrong in his message making straight the path for Him? We must turn from our way because “my way” only leads to death. Also, I do know and understand there are passages that suggest “we” repent. I was only sharing how He has brought me to understand it up to now. Thank you for reading and may His Spirit grant us all boldness to proclaim His name to this world that needs it, and to have these discussions and debates, but to do so knowing what bonds believers together and not let these things split us, or bring shame to His name. I pray this all in the mighty name of the King, Jesus. Amen.
Not a salvation issue. I think more how can we hear in a hope of it becoming clearer as the day draws nearer. then when we first were given the faith to believe Our invisible God..

This is one of a couple doctrines that seem to destroy the foundation of doctrines .which are usually in the Old. Like the tongues doctrine.

From my experience most who make the claim of comfort from a unknown have little idea what tongues is or was it used means? According to my understanding its more those will seek after it by making their mind available as if its was the Holy Spirit? Jesus experienced that kind of ideology in Mathew 4, Three times the in heaven Father puts his word in Jesus's mouth and declared as it is written .

It seems.....lets get filled with wonderment as source of mysticism . No faith coming from all things written in the law and the prophets. No faith is . . . sounds that have no meaning.

No such thing as a "sign gift . Sign yes. Gift, yes. . Spiritual gifts not seen, yes. Sign gift.... both words working as one.... no . One source of Christ's faith, as it is written

Prophecy is for believers .Its what the sign according to the law given in 1 Corinthian 14:22-23 points to as the foundation of tongues doctrine in Isaiah 28

Sign gifts is the foundation of everyone that does seek after signs. . .it would seem to replace drawing power prophecy .(unknowns proves itself false) .

Can't see spiritual gifts of the Spirit, as if God was a man like us..We look to the things not seen. . . called faith. . . the eternal .

I have not met one person who seeks after wonderment's as "sign gifts" that will even look to the foundation of the doctrine .

I am reminded of David in the Psalms . What will the believers do if the foundations of the doctrines of God are destroyed. I would call. The shield psalm.

Perhaps a person should rethink ., how they hear God . There is always the danger of what do other says? Not that we should not seek after the gifts of the spirit as help from each other in respect to the whole body of Christ.

Psalm 11 King James Version (KJV) In the Lord put I my trust: how say ye to my soul, Flee as a bird to your mountain? For, lo, the wicked bend their bow, they make ready their arrow upon the string, that they may privily shoot at the upright in heart.
If the foundations be destroyed, what can the righteous do?

It would appear we lose our defense "the shield of faith". we must defend it as it is written or we have no support.

Above all, taking the "shield of faith:, wherewith ye shall be able to quench all the fiery darts of the wicked. Ephesian 6: 16

Once one confirms the outcome of 1 Corinthian 14:22-23 the rest of the doctrine of tongues falls into place .It will reveal what some call a "unknown tongue" as those that yet after all the scriptures that teaches us on the doctrine of tongues They still refuse to hear and look to the foundation . Its what the sign does confirm, unbelief. .

Personalty I would not want that kind of a sign following me .
 
7

7seasrekeyed

Guest
Waggles

I have heard that the fellowship that speaks truth powerfully will always be one strongly opposed by the religious.

If you read Waggles post closely, he is not saying that faith in the Cross and blood sacrifice isn’t enough for salvation as you all are accusing him of.

But salvation is all inclusive of the experiences of the new birth, the baptism of Holy Spirit, and the fullness. Not the doctrines but the results of believing the full gospel.

That this was the beginning of the churches of God, or the living, breathing, lifed in Spirit, and ministering through gifts of Holy Spirit body of our Lord Jesus Christ, to the end of our faith....the high calling of God in Christ Jesus that Paul speaks about. That by the way would be another divisive subject, and if you have trouble with Pentecost, your head will explode when realizing what Paul is actually meaning.

Jesus said there would be division, and even in our own house. Much suffering too and possible loss.

So stop accusing Waggles of saying you all aren’t saved for heaven.

spot on

the twisting of the words here by a few cessationists is alarming and indicative that they probably do not do any better when reading the Bible

and it's very serious
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
spot on

the twisting of the words here by a few cessationists is alarming and indicative that they probably do not do any better when reading the Bible

and it's very serious
What is serious is waggles belinging in salvation by works

Thats much more serious than any tongues discussion. And it saddens me you would enable him
 
Mar 28, 2016
15,954
1,528
113
all believers are sealed with the Holy Spirit Ephesians 1:13, but the book of Acts clearly clearly reveals that you can be saved but not baptized in the Holy Spirit
Can't believe. . . God unless he first gives a person his faith as a labor of His love to make it happen. Faith does not come from ones own imaginations of their own fleshly mind .It comes from God not seen as it is written.

It is the work of God working in us to both will and do his good pleasure .

Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God? Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.John 6:

No work of God working in us...no believing God. He must do the first works in any situation or how could we believe in every situation?

As our comforter, teacher... He also brings to our mind the things he has taught us .We do not lean on our own understanding without falling.
 

stonesoffire

Poetic Member
Nov 24, 2013
10,665
1,829
113
By that do you mean the "sign gifts" such as prophecy, healing and speaking in tongues along with receiving the gift of the Holy Spirit for believers continues on?
Yes, and should in every fellowship. Pentecost is meant for all. There’s also word of knowledge, word of wisdom, plus...

It is not elitist to speak the truth. And is actually the same scenario such as in the not by works thread. Faith alone for salvation is seen as error by those who believe good works are included.

We all are chipping away from unbelief.
 

stonesoffire

Poetic Member
Nov 24, 2013
10,665
1,829
113
Hm, expierience can be good, but ifit stands over the word it can be misleading and dangerous. Where was the dove?
The expierience with the wind can also have people with new Age believings

If I was wrong with my answer, then please tell me what you meant. This would be prophylactic to an misunderstanding from myside.😀
I know nothing of new age teaching but I do know this....

Worshipping Jesus as Saviour and Lord is never wrong. 😉.

To worship in Spirit, exalting Jesus in the power of our spiritual language, then singing in Spirit to Him? A taste of heaven on earth.
 

stonesoffire

Poetic Member
Nov 24, 2013
10,665
1,829
113
Hm, expierience can be good, but ifit stands over the word it can be misleading and dangerous. Where was the dove?
The expierience with the wind can also have people with new Age believings

If I was wrong with my answer, then please tell me what you meant. This would be prophylactic to an misunderstanding from myside.😀
CS1 actually gave the answer right after the question wolf.
 
Mar 28, 2016
15,954
1,528
113
spot on

the twisting of the words here by a few cessationists is alarming and indicative that they probably do not do any better when reading the Bible

and it's very serious
Hell is defined according to the word of God as an affliction of God as living work of suffering.... with a plea to the one pouring out his wrath on a living human to strengthen him to finish the thee day and night work of suffering with, required to purify the person in preparation to bring the gospel to the Ninivites . The finishing touches...Spit Jonas on shore. . . . Jesus walked out of the cave (his body kept from corruption for three days)

Jonah 2 King James Version (KJV) Then Jonah prayed unto the Lord his God out of the fish's belly, And said, I cried by reason of mine affliction unto the Lord, and he heard me; out of the belly of hell cried I, and thou heardest my voice.For thou hadst cast me into the deep, in the midst of the seas; and the floods compassed me about: all thy billows and thy waves passed over me.
 

stonesoffire

Poetic Member
Nov 24, 2013
10,665
1,829
113
I said what i said, no more no less! You can agree with it ore not.

Btw. Where it is taught in the bible to others that to be filled with the Holy Spirit ore baptised with the Holy Spirit you have to expierience a wind?
You asked me if I experienced a dove. I said what I experienced. Nothing was said that you would experience the same.

Holy Spirit seems to me to be very personal individually. He definitely is as the wind that you can only feel or hear speak.
 

stonesoffire

Poetic Member
Nov 24, 2013
10,665
1,829
113
Not sure what you mean by hard to understand. Did you mean they are offensive to some? That would be one use of the words .

Words we preach are clearly understandable. Prophecy is the word of God. The believers new tongue Every believer has one needed to preach the gospel

When you prophesy by declaring the word of God. . . do you understand ?
How did the Word of the Lord, memrah, become written?
 

wolfwint

Senior Member
Feb 15, 2014
3,757
936
113
61
You missed the point.
She has proof.
You need a bible without the book of acts.
The book of acts discredits your theory.
What proof? Out of acts2 there is nowhere mentioned to receive the baptism with the Holy Spirit in combine with wind. But then you must teach also that tongues of fire have to be there if somebody receive the Holy Spirit. No one taught this!
Why is it not taught to any believer in the bible? According the pentecostal and charismatic movement it is an elementary teaching for every believer? Why we cant find this teaching in the early church? Not to find during the churchhistory?
 
Mar 28, 2016
15,954
1,528
113
I know nothing of new age teaching but I do know this....

Worshipping Jesus as Saviour and Lord is never wrong. 😉.

To worship in Spirit, exalting Jesus in the power of our spiritual language, then singing in Spirit to Him? A taste of heaven on earth.
I would offer. Its a taste of earth on earth .We look to things not seen the eternal (not the temporal )

Once source of faith (not experience) Rather as it is written

Singing words that a person could understand? like the Psalms. . . words he sings to us? Not just noises without meaning. It is a picture of God singing to us in the gospel key from the same page.. . sound of many waters back ground ..

1 Chronicles 16:9 Sing unto him, sing psalms unto him, talk ye of all his wondrous works.

We cannot sing unto him unless he teaches the song that do make merriment in our new hearts. A Duet.

Zephaniah 3:17 The Lord thy God in the midst of thee is mighty; he will save, he will rejoice over thee with joy; he will rest in his love, he will joy over thee with singing.

Again if the Holy Spirit does not give the words of the new song . . . how could they learn it?by making unknown noises?

Revelation 14:3 And they sung as it were a new song before the throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and no man could learn that song but the hundred and forty and four thousand, which were redeemed from the earth.
 

wolfwint

Senior Member
Feb 15, 2014
3,757
936
113
61
Nobody believes every tiny thing of another.
So you believe it too? It is not tiny if somebody claimes that only the pentecostal teaching is right, and all before are wrong and not saved.
 

stonesoffire

Poetic Member
Nov 24, 2013
10,665
1,829
113
What is serious is waggles belinging in salvation by works

Thats much more serious than any tongues discussion. And it saddens me you would enable him
Works of Holy Spirit is the result of the baptism EG. The works in the not by works thread that you are opposing, is good works that men do. That even the unsaved can do.

There’s my differ with you all in that thread. Faith alone in the atonement of sacrificial blood placed on the mercy seat before Father is our salvation from sin.

The works that follow are of the Spirit, not the flesh, or humanity.
 

stonesoffire

Poetic Member
Nov 24, 2013
10,665
1,829
113
Yes, and should in every fellowship. Pentecost is meant for all. There’s also word of knowledge, word of wisdom, plus...

It is not elitist to speak the truth. And is actually the same scenario such as in the not by works thread. Faith alone for salvation is seen as error by those who believe good works are included.

We all are chipping away from unbelief.
At unbelief not from.
 

Wansvic

Well-known member
Nov 27, 2018
5,247
1,104
113
If water baptism could clean a person from their sin

Jesus wasted his time going to the cross.

Think on that..
Without Jesus' sacrifice there would be no way of coming back into right standing with God. The God-inspired word is clear concerning water baptism. It's a matter of being obedient to what is stated there. One can never go wrong obeying the word of God.

Everyone has to make their own choice.
 

stonesoffire

Poetic Member
Nov 24, 2013
10,665
1,829
113
I would offer. Its a taste of earth on earth .We look to things not seen the eternal (not the temporal )

Once source of faith (not experience) Rather as it is written

Singing words that a person could understand? like the Psalms. . . words he sings to us? Not just noises without meaning. It is a picture of God singing to us in the gospel key from the same page.. . sound of many waters back ground ..

1 Chronicles 16:9 Sing unto him, sing psalms unto him, talk ye of all his wondrous works.

We cannot sing unto him unless he teaches the song that do make merriment in our new hearts. A Duet.

Zephaniah 3:17 The Lord thy God in the midst of thee is mighty; he will save, he will rejoice over thee with joy; he will rest in his love, he will joy over thee with singing.

Again if the Holy Spirit does not give the words of the new song . . . how could they learn it?by making unknown noises?

Revelation 14:3 And they sung as it were a new song before the throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and no man could learn that song but the hundred and forty and four thousand, which were redeemed from the earth.
Garee...isn’t that why Paul said to sing in Spirit, then in understanding? You can’t eliminate the Spiritual song.
 

Wansvic

Well-known member
Nov 27, 2018
5,247
1,104
113
Faith comes by hearing, Not by being baptised

Salvation comes by Faith, Not by works

Baptism is no where to be found in the equation. Your trying to replace the baptism of God with the baptism of men, thats blasphemy!
Both water baptism and the infilling of the Holy Ghost were God ordained.
 

Wansvic

Well-known member
Nov 27, 2018
5,247
1,104
113
The only power of God unto salvation is the gospel where water baptism is not a part. It is received by faith. Faith comes upon hearing the word of God. Now let me see if you choose to accept God's words says here.

Romans 1:16 King James Version (KJV)
16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.

Ephesians 1:13 King James Version (KJV)
13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
The gospel is the power of God UNTO salvation to every one that believeth. What word of truth was heard, believed and responded to?
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
Without Jesus' sacrifice there would be no way of coming back into right standing with God. The God-inspired word is clear concerning water baptism. It's a matter of being obedient to what is stated there. One can never go wrong obeying the word of God.

Everyone has to make their own choice.
Your right

So you BETTER be baptised into. Christs death

Because OTHERWISE yoru stil dead in yoru sin

Oh, and PS. Only God can baptise you into christ. That is called spirit baptism, or baptism of the spirit.

Your water baptism has no power. Or means to baptize you into Christ. .